Welcome to catch-22

[Big Bruce]

..., how long were you and your W together prior to getting married? What was your R like before your M? Is there anything significant that you can identify that was different?

Thanks for asking LITB.
We knew each other on and off. When she fell in love with me, she was almost 18 yo on a summer work trip to France. I'm 7 years older, so I was already working as an engineer, making some money. Different times, different situation, different country, it began as a passionate summer love story, then vapored away, then kept contact, then she moved to France, I moved to Italy, she came to visit, etc... I finally kneeled and took out the diamond ring on the Ponts des Arts one red skyed evening in Paris. All in all, 5 years before marriage. Rather than what was different, I woulds ask what was the same, and the answer is nothing was the same as now.

Also, did either of you have any long term relationships prior to meeting? If so, why did they not work?

Well, I only had two "long term" girlfriends before my W. The first one ended because I took her for granted, but it was real bad. The second ended because of distance, nobody's fault.
She, never had a bf before me. That is what fascinated me, I was all to her.

the main difference is that your son entered the picture. You have mentioned that you felt like you took a backseat in her priorities once he was born, which was very early in your M. I'm sure that created some resentment from you, which naturally you would distance yourself. She would then do the same and each of you would keep score.

Well analyzed, but I would add that the reason why she focused so much on our son, is because she felt home sick and didn't feel particularly supported in a difficult situation, in a foreign country, etc... the evidence is the hours (literally, telephone is free in France even internationally) with her mom on the telephone. I would nag her about it.

How important was it for her to have children? Was having a child early in your M planned?

Now you may find it very surprising, but I was the one who wanted a child. She didn't want it. She was pouting when she found out it actually "worked" and her tummy was getting bigger. I talked her into it, and I was super proud when he was born.
Ironic, that now I am being accused of not being interested in my son/family, isn't it ?

I don't think that analyzing the past too closely will direct me in the next steps I need to take, but this is our story.

The more we're separated, the more I feel she thinks it is a better/acceptable/workable solution, which is not!

Like I was saying in a previous post, and that's not out of anger or anything, she didn't have to face ANY of the consequences of separation yet. She has her family, her studies, her part-time job, her friends, parent's car, her city, her country, her language, and the son. The "sadness" of losing me is nothing as near as the anguish nightmare that I had to go through, and which has traumatized me for life, regardless of the outcome. The scar will always be there, I used to trust and believe in people, I know I have lost that faith now.
I used to be genuinely naturally cheerful and gay, now I can smile, but in the deep of me, not anymore.

[MrBond]

" the evidence of my failure. A failure which consequnces makes my life really not enjoyable anymore, if worth living at all. Thus why I was reluctant in exposing the whole world what is so intimately painful in my innermost being."

PRIDE.

A real man recognizes and learns from his mistakes. Taking on personal responsibility is the first step. You have a long way to go on that because you're still wanting her to feel punished for a situation that you caused.

"she didn't have to face ANY of the consequences of separation yet. She has her family, her studies, her part-time job, her friends, parent's car, her city, her country, her language, and the son. The "sadness" of losing me is nothing as near as the anguish nightmare that I had to go through, and which has traumatized me for life,"

Perfect example.

[25yearsmlc]

Bonsoir,
Well, this email is, in a sense, the evidence of my failure. A failure which consequnces makes my life really not enjoyable anymore, if worth living at all. Thus why I was reluctant in exposing the whole world what is so intimately painful in my innermost being.

Yes, I have a lawyer, and it looks like in my province, like almost anywhere, since I am a "normal" person, I should be getting the shared custody.

I have to explain though, that I had the intention of filing for shared custody, but my wife, feeling threatened to lose her precious full custody, beat me to the clock, and filed first!. She went to her L, file for 100% custody, proposing to allow me visits, (as if), and asking for D in the same petition.
I, in return, filed for a counter-petition which is only a legal response to her filing first.

Her L must have received it on Monday, but my L went on vacation this week. Upon reception, the two L are supposed to have a little chat, if I understood well. I'm hoping that, seen the extravangacy of her request and my refusal and my 50% proposition, her L will be sensible enough to convince her that it is not worth pursuing the 100% custody petition.

In case she is still unreasonnable and still wants to fight my request, we will have to fill a notice of motions, which means basically asking for a trial. But it won't make her win time because in the meantime, I can ask for immediate relief, which means 50% of time with my son.

Is it well explained, Mrs. Lawyeress ? (or isn't it the same procedure everywhere?)

You're in a different country so it's probably not the same. The property divisions here vary by state, so there may be provincial differences in Canada too.

But custody in western nations is almost always based on what the court finds is in the "best interests" of the child, and they look to stability and routine for the child first.

Be mindful of that.


Anyway, so far, no reaction on their part that I know of. I asked to postpone today's visit because I have my work Christmas reception today (which she refused to join, understandably). And she asked if we could postpone the visit to Saturday instead of tomorrow. So, it's as if nothing changed, we're still planning/postponing visits.
No email, no phone call, no mention of the legal process going on in parallel.
If she doesn't bring it up, I won't either. As it has been suggested, I will let her associate the ugly part of paying her L and "losing" the legal battle over our son, by herself.

I, will dissociate from it all. First, because I've only been involved because of her refusal to give our son up. She has to cut the umbilical cord with young Bruce. I don't want to be associated with the negative feelings she will have about spending the money and "being wrong".

I am after all, a truly concerned father, who is only asking to help raise his son, whom I love and care for.

Later maybe, if things are not reconciled between us still, I will ask her help for little Brucie, maybe call to ask advice, invite her to join in an activity we'll be participating in (kid museum, pet store, fun house, swimming pool, etc...) in the view of showing that indeed, I am a family man big time.

Have you changed a diaper of your son's yet? I ask this b/c you said you've never cared for him on your own at all. I need to know what your wife has seen you do for your son. The more she sees you do on your own, the better.


All her reasons to separate have dissolved : 1.I'm here and not complaining. 2. I am not spending the money on anything. 3. I'm asking and acting to have more time with my son (and her).


Bruce, when you say things like this^^^ it makes me sigh. Her reasons to separate have not "dissolved"...

you continue to have problems putting her needs ahead of your wants and you equate your wants with what is best...and I simply don't think you appreciate how much you hurt her or for how long.

Whenever you mention that pain, you immediately say you "already apologized", as if that negates the hurt AND THEN

you refer back to YOUR pain and hurt, which was in response to her leaving you, which was in response to YOUR mistreating her.

I think when YOU see all that^^, you'll be getting somewhere. But I don't feel the reasons have dissolved.

I think most of your insights have occurred in the past 2 weeks...which is not long.

Talk about 180 degree, this is a Pi radian turn !

consistent change + sufficient time = change she can believe in.


Bruce, that^^^ does NOT necessarily mean a reconciliation...but it IS your best shot.

[Big Bruce]

Say, if you knew for absolute certain you and your wife would never get back together, would you will want to make these changes and change your priorities?

Ask yourself that

Well, this question makes me think that you guys must think that I was really bad, when in fact I was not that bad.
You might reply, well, if you weren't horrible, she wouldn't have left you.
Truth is, I was kind to her, seeking an emotional connection, listening to her, understanding her, helping at home, picking the baby from day care, then picking her up in the evening, cooking, cleaning the house, doing the repairs, going for walks together, sharing our dreams for the future, our love for books. I sold my motorbike and bought her a scooter. We would go out for dinner, we would talk about holidays here and there and plan for it, and we'd go!
It has been a wonderful start of marriage.
When the travail came, I took her to the hospital and held her hand till the baby came out. I was there for them, I loved and still love them, if not I wouldn't be here.

Then she moved to Canada, ahead of me.... and everything tipped.

Nobody, I say NOBODY, did understand that decision of hers. Our pastor, my parents, her friends, they all said : she seemed to be such a nice person, and you were getting along so well.. it was impossible to imagine that she would commit such a thing.

So yeah, I think I more or less get the gist of it: my best shot is to show a change for a long period of time.
See, your advice did not fall into the ears of a deaf person..

In the meantime, I need to get rid of pride, and the diminishing her hurt by recognizing that things weren't as rosy as I thought. I must refuse self-righteousness, and start refocusing on my family, making myself interested in the life of my son, and her life. And, be patient.

Did I summed it up well?

[Big Bruce]

Have you changed a diaper of your son's yet? I ask this b/c you said you've never cared for him on your own at all. I need to know what your wife has seen you do for your son. The more she sees you do on your own, the better.

Well, no. But the other day, about a month ago, at the library, I offered to help, so I held his legs up, while she was cleaning his bum. Ok, it wasn't much, but it's the goodwill that counts, right?

And, btw, I never told her about my pain to her.

And my letters did not negate her reasons to be mad. In fact, they validated it by saying : I understand your not wanting to see me right now, I know I have "screwed up", I apologize, and even I respect your decision.

Now, you're right, saying it doesn't make things right. I have to act on it too, and consistently (it's been 5 months already).

By "dissolved", I meant spirited away. I have stopped the bad things, no more reasons to accuse me of anything.
I am not giving more ammo than necessary. Her resentment and grudge are enough as it is.

Bien le bonsoir,
B.

[25yearsmlc]

Have you changed a diaper of your son's yet? I ask this b/c you said you've never cared for him on your own at all. I need to know what your wife has seen you do for your son. The more she sees you do on your own, the better.

Well, no. But the other day, about a month ago, at the library, I offered to help, so I held his legs up, while she was cleaning his bum. Ok, it wasn't much, but it's the goodwill that counts, right?


Sorry Bruce, but the goodwill only goes so far. Your wife did the dirty work while you watched. Next time, ask her to teach you how to do it yourself b/c you want to be his care provider. That will be much more likely if you show you can manage the basics. Diapers are basic.

The only other man I know who hasn't changed a diaper, is also here w/a walk away wife. HE says that it's an experience that actually bonds a parent to a child. But you two are literally the only men I've known of, to be so uninvolved in the daily care. I hope you now see the value of helping more.

I mean, He's nearly 2 y/o? So that's over a thousand diapers SHE has changed to your...one event of leg holding & "goodwill"....

that builds a lot of resentment. Anyway,

I'd also work on putting him down for naps & reading to him one on one if I were you.

Another example of what I think she wanted...When she was nursing, and therefore NEVER sleeping thru the night, what stopped you from helping her out?

For instance, Even when I had the summer off with our newborn, and my h had to go to work the next day, HE would get up when the baby needed feeding and he'd change his diaper, and THEN bring the baby to me so we SHARED the work...AND the bonding...



And, btw, I never told her about my pain to her.


why would you tell her about YOUR pain?

When you felt SHE was "in a bad humor" or "sulking", what did you say to her to determine why she felt that way? How did you try to help her feel better?

OR did you withdraw more?

That's not to say you should not tell her how much she and your son mean to you--by all means yes. But leave your needs & pain out of it for now. She's not interested in that and my guess is that she feels you've made your pain & needs THE PRIORITY for long enough.


And my letters did not negate her reasons to be mad. In fact, they validated it by saying : I understand your not wanting to see me right now, I know I have "screwed up", I apologize, and even I respect your decision.


Your letters/words were supposed to show that you CAN CHANGE and if you'd rather defend yourself instead, then good luck showing change.

Now, you're right, saying it doesn't make things right. I have to act on it too, and consistently (it's been 5 months already).


Not so...I think you've only begun to DB...

By "dissolved", I meant spirited away. I have stopped the bad things, no more reasons to accuse me of anything.
I am not giving more ammo than necessary. Her resentment and grudge are enough as it is.

Bien le bonsoir,
B.

[labug]

Where in France are you from, Bruce?

Your written English and use of idiom is impressive. Have you lived in North America before?

What kind of support are you getting from your family?

Your son is 2 and you held his legs up for a diaper change? That must have been quite an ordeal.

[Soul.Searching]

Honestly, am SO glad my H didn't do this a few years ago. My children are D9 and S8. I'm pretty sure my H struggles to look after them now.
I could count on my hands the number of nappies he changed between my TWO children. That's part of the reason I never when out and left him with them.

She needs to know that you can look after your S! I'm sorry but I can understand her not wanting to leave him with you and I wouldn't be surprised if the courts felt the same way. You need to ask her to teach you how to do these things.

My advice would be next time you see your S, ask your W if she can let you do everything for your S. Ask her to show you, if need be. If you want unsupervised visits, you are going to have to do EVERYTHING for him.

[Big Bruce]

Bonjour,
I think all of you have a point with the nappies changing thing.
Next time, which is this afternoon, I will pretend I want to change him, to see her reaction, and to see if she is willing to show me how.
After all, I have two hands, and if the court trusts me with looking after him every other week, I will have to do it several times anyway.

Thanks for complimenting my English, but I know it is far from good. I am from Nice, South east France, the French Riviera for those who know it. Never lived in North America, (or Britain for that matter). I'm an engineer so I guess I had to study harder and longer than others, that's all.

With my son, I already read one on one, and we play cars together too. Surely my W must've noticed. I don't have the possibility to put him down for naps as he's awake during my visits which happen during the day.

Back in France, when my wife was tired and sulky, I, being an extremely patient man, left her alone, to not annoy her more than she already was. See, I always sought peace.
But what bugged me most, is that she was always too tired for, well you know what, but never too tired to take care of the baby!

And the reason why I didn't budge from bed, is because she was breast-feeding him, so, there, not much I could do. And besides, I had to work the next day. Of course if I knew before she would take it so badly, I would have jumped before her, and gotten my eyes wide open, and changed the diapers and all... too late I guess now.

Now when it's minus 20C, I call it lovely weather, when she's wearing the most ordinary jumper it becomes a fine sweater, and when her hair is all over the place she looks sharp.-->Thanks to you all, I'm on the right track now.

[Big Bruce]

Are you doing them to pacify your W, or because you think perhaps your focuses with money and your son were off? Do you believe those things needed changing? Or are you just doing it to get your wife back? Did you stop the " bad things". So she has nothing to accuse you of as you say, or because they are changes you want to make within yourself

Both. I think I can improve, and the much sought collateral effect is that she'll come back.