heeeeelllllppp!!

[AnotherStander]

There that kind of thing is encouraged and promoted. A number of people on there told me how to do go about it and how it was a good idea.

I can't possibly see it being a good idea if your intent is to save your M. If you're trying to gather evidence for a court case then maybe, but most states are "no fault" divorce and if yours is then it won't even help you there.

I don't think it's invasive as it's not like I took them off her.

I imagine your W feels quite differently about it.

As for the DB book, I can't find my notes, I suspect my W found them and trashed them or hid them to be 1 step ahead.

If you're serious about saving your M, surely you can scrape together 10 bucks to buy your own copy.

I'm not sure what exactly 180 means...is that a page number?

Read DR again. It's the centerpost of DB'ing. Take stock of your mistakes, do the opposite of them (180's).

i'm sitting here trying to think of what I did wrong in the marriage and I think I was a good dude for her.

But what does your W think? What has she "nagged" you about over the years? What has she told you are her reasons for wanting out?

Also, I tended to be super critical of her - or at least she has been saying that earlier this year..then she stopped suddenly, so I figured that things were better.

When the WAS stops that sort of thing, it means they're done and planning their exit. Are you sure you read DR? It's in there. It's not the sort of thing you'd forget since it's your exact sitch.

Beauty is in the eye of the behold and I think I'm still good looking. I wear the extra 75lbs pretty good so I don't think that's an issue.

But what does SHE think? Is she calling you "fat" because you put on 75 pounds of rippling muscle? You've got to quit justifying everything to yourself, your W has serious concerns/ complaints and you need to acknowledge them and take action on them if you want to save your M.

However, I told her I made an appointment with a doctor to talk about it so hopefully she will see that I'm taking it seriously.

An appointment will convince her of nothing. What may convince her is months and months of consistent, changed behavior from you. Doing 180's (read DR). Sticking with them. Doing them over a long period of time until they eventually become permanent.

So a +. Secondly, part of the deal was that she 1000% promised that she wouldn't have sex with anyone else --- only date and only for friendship.

Like MrBond said, there's a 1000% chance that she will have sex with these "friends". Read the Married Man Sex Life Primer. Your W WANTS sex. She NEEDS sex. She will get it somewhere.

She said she is at the age where most women get and she doesn't like sex anymore. So why would she do something she hates?

MMSLP goes into this. When she tells you this, she means she doesn't like sex with YOU. Not that she doesn't like it at all.

Honestly, I can't be responsible with money one of her nagging points.

You see it as nagging, she sees it as her trying to communicate something to you. Take her seriously.

I don't mind sleeping in the office or the inlaw apartment really.

Try to avoid getting kicked out of the MBR, because even though you -think- it will make her mad if you stand your ground, it will probably make her respect you more. Don't be afraid to stand up to her.

Anotherstander -I cannot say that to her. if I gave her that speech I think she'd kick my butt then put me out of the house. it's complicated because the house we rent is owned by her dad- who has always disliked me.

OK, I understand your point. Still, they can't just boot you out. They'd have to go through formal eviction proceedings, and since the two of you are married I think her dad would have to evict both of you together. I'm not positive about that though, you'd need to check with a local lawyer.

I do want to fix my marriage, but I also want to teach them a lesson for having an affair in the first place. It's unfair that they get off scott free to do what they want and I suffer.

First, you don't even know if she had an affair. Second, if you seek revenge you WILL lose your marriage. There's a saying around here, you can be right or you can be happily married. Which is worth more to you?

I don't want to play games I just want to be honest and loving with her in the way she deserves.

Do you think spying on her computer activities and testing her panties is honest and loving behavior?

I want to expose the affair so badly because I feel it in my gut that it will snap her back to reality. I can't be wrong on this can I?

Yes indeed, again, you really need to read DR. If she is having an affair, if you keep pushing it she'll just go deeper into secrecy. And she will resent you for pushing her. If she's having an affair then you will find out sooner or later.

Whys is everyone telling me to read the book. I did read the book, twice and took notes.

Because your posts clearly demonstrate you don't have even a basic understanding of the principals. "What is a 180, a page number?" That's like telling someone you read Moby Dick and then looking perpexed when they ask you about Ahab.

I can't go out and by the book when I'm watching my kids!!!!!

Really? Are you in prison or something? Do you have a lunch break at work? Ever heard of Amazon.com?

We'd spend a lot of time at work and going to lunch. My co-worker saw me as only a friend. We'd talk about how bad our relationships were and we hugged a couple of times - no biggie. We were both intent on keeping our relationships together we we like the support from each other. She wasn't my type really. However, i did breakdown and write her a love poem and a letter.

Sure. Everyone writes poems and love letters to their friends. I just got one from one of my biker buddies. That's totally normal behavior.

I told my W I called the doctor to talk about the extra weight I have. I still need to actually call him.

That's not a 180, it's a lie.

[Many worries]

I swear I am having a nervous breakdown today for some reason. oH yeah...she's messing with someone else. .

Frist of first, I can't get the book now because my wife hasn't given me my spending $$ yet after I gave her my check. Should I go ask her for it or should I just let it be for a while. I want to tell her it's for something important to our marriage but she might quiz me. I was also thinking of getting her a little love locket to remind her of the good times.

I really need to clarify my almost affair. It was mostly innocent. I did get carried away with the letter and the poem, but again they weren't given to my woman friend. it was to get those feelings out and not let them grow inside of me. My councilor at the time suggested this. My only mistake was not burning them once they were out. I think my wife should forgive me on this point though because it could have been worse. But I have owned up to that mistake and have begged for her to forgive.

Not snooping on the computer is so hard. You guys have no idea. I just want to go through every email and find the secret accounts she has. I just want this to end.

I ended up emailing her today a couple of times. The first was to check in to see how she was doing. The second time I apologized for waking her up for sex. I suggested in the email that we take a 3 month break from sex to get our heads on straite. The one website suggest that for a man to take back his sexuality he do this periodically in his marriage. It is also a 180 for me.

She hasn't responded

It's not that i don't understand the principles of db, it's just that i'm confused by what is DB and what isn't. I read like 6 books on marriage and get confused as to what applies to what.That's why I needed help in the first place.

So far, I got that I shouldn't confront my wife or buddy about their affair. Check
I shouldn't call my wife names. check
I shouldn't snoop on her or check her clothes. check.

I do love her but she is human at times. She can be moody and can be a B. I don't think she's a B 100% of the time, but aren't we all a little grumpy. I mean she's called me a ahole a lot of times. I'm not allowed to think she's a B???

I promise I will learn once I get the book. Do you think it's too early to suggest marriage counseling or a marriage retreat?

[MrBond]

"I swear I am having a nervous breakdown today for some reason. oH yeah...she's messing with someone else. ."

Now you know how she felt.

"Should I go ask her for it or should I just let it be for a while. I want to tell her it's for something important to our marriage but she might quiz me."

No! don't ask. In fact, don't say anything about saving your M. You've already told her time and time again. Give her space.

"I was also thinking of getting her a little love locket to remind her of the good times."

See this is why everyone tells you to read DB. You don't buy your W things when you're DBing.

"I really need to clarify my almost affair. It was mostly innocent. I did get carried away with the letter and the poem, but again they weren't given to my woman friend. it was to get those feelings out and not let them grow inside of me. My councilor at the time suggested this."

Stop blaming other people for your actions. He might have suggested it, but you did it. And it got your in trouble. AGAIN, you had an EA! To her that hurt and you betrayed your thoughts and feelings to her.

"My only mistake was not burning them once they were out."

No your mistake was letting your feelings for this other person get too far.

"I think my wife should forgive me on this point though because it could have been worse."

Why? You haven't earned her respect and trust. It's pretty obvious from your current actions.

"But I have owned up to that mistake and have begged for her to forgive."

So what? You might have said the words, but it is up to your W to forgive you. Just because you begged her to forgive you doesn't mean she should.

"Not snooping on the computer is so hard. You guys have no idea."

Seriously? You think you're the only one who had to deal with an A? My W had an EA with her boss that she worked with every day. So, yeah, we do have an idea.

"I just want to go through every email and find the secret accounts she has. I just want this to end."

And what do you think is going to happen? Do you think she'll fall into your arms because you're such a catch? No way. She'll look for the next guy in line UNLESS YOU CHANGE.

"I suggested in the email that we take a 3 month break from sex to get our heads on straite."

You are in no position to lay down any rules like that. Just stop asking her for sex. PERIOD.

"The one website suggest that for a man to take back his sexuality he do this periodically in his marriage."

That's in a good marriage. You're in a lousy one so that rule doesn't apply. Just stop asking her for stuff she doesn't want to give you.

"It's not that i don't understand the principles of db, it's just that i'm confused by what is DB and what isn't."

yes you are or else you wouldn't be making all of these simple mistakes. They are listed specifically in the book.

"I read like 6 books on marriage and get confused as to what applies to what.That's why I needed help in the first place."

We all do. But you have to learn what the overall meaning is to each thing you read. Let's face it, everything you've done so far hasn't worked. So stick with DB.

"So far, I got that I shouldn't confront my wife or buddy about their affair. Check
I shouldn't call my wife names. check
I shouldn't snoop on her or check her clothes. check."

It's called respecting your W. check.
When you were trying to court her, were you that mean and needy to her?

"I do love her but she is human at times. She can be moody and can be a B. I don't think she's a B 100% of the time, but aren't we all a little grumpy. I mean she's called me a ahole a lot of times. I'm not allowed to think she's a B???"

Because she calls you an ahole it's for a REASON! That's what you don't get. But rather than trying to figure out and understand why she called you that, you return fire by calling her a B. Do you REALLY think that is going to solve anything? Start by being the better man.

"I promise I will learn once I get the book."

No you can start now by respecting your W and stop thinking about yourself. I don't think you really understand how selfish you sound.

"Do you think it's too early to suggest marriage counseling or a marriage retreat?"

YES! OMG, go back and read everyone's posts to you. WHY WOULD SHE WANT TO GO BACK TO YOU WHEN YOU'RE STILL TREATING HER LIKE AN @$$?!

I understand that you might think I'm getting on your case alot, but it seems like you don't respond any other way.

[AnotherStander]

I swear I am having a nervous breakdown today for some reason. oH yeah...she's messing with someone else. .

Is she? Let me share something with you from my sitch, I was sure my W was messing around. This was before I found DB and I of course did all the wrong things including putting spyware on her laptop and hacking her Facebook and email passwords. I also snuck her phone from her when she was sleeping and looked through her texts. You know what I found? NOTHING. She was not and has never been involved in an affair. She moved out almost 3 months ago and has not even gone out on a date. The point being, your marriage is in the crapper and whether there is an OM or not, it's still in the crapper! What are you going to do about it? Quit worrying about the affair and get busy DB'ing!

Frist of first, I can't get the book now because my wife hasn't given me my spending $$ yet after I gave her my check. Should I go ask her for it or should I just let it be for a while.

Quit giving her your paychecks, just agree on an amount and give that to her and you keep whatever the rest is. You need a W, not a mom. And running your finances for you probably makes her feel like your mom too.

I was also thinking of getting her a little love locket to remind her of the good times.

<pounds head on desk> I don't normally do this, but I am going to post the entire list of DB 180 tips here for you. Print them out and keep them with you. Read them several times a day. LIVE them.

1.Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore! This turns the spouse completely off!

2. No frequent phone calls to spouse.......let him/her be the one to call you. Then don't try to hang on to your spouse through conversation.....instead, you say good-bye first.

3. Do not point out good points in marriage or try to get him/her to read marriage books, look at your M pictures, etc. Especially, do not get him/her to read the DB/DR book. That is for you only!

4. Do not follow your spouse around the house like a puppy dog trying to get his/her time and attention.

5. Do not encourage talk about the future. They don't want to think about a future with you at the moment, so stay clear of that subject.

6. Do not ask for help from family members or friends. Don't discuss private matters with them that would upset your spouse.

7. Do not ask for reassurances (That is showing neediness and being clingy.) Show self-respect and self confidence.

8. Do not buy gifts to make "brownie points". (Can't buy his/her love and affection.)

9. Do not schedule dates together at this point. (That is pursuing.) Save for later when the R is much better.

10. Do not spy on spouse by checking emails, phone bills, etc. (Not good for you and will make matters worse.)

11. Do not say "I Love You" (It is being "pushy" and trying to make your spouse say it back to you......he/she will despise you for it.)

12. Act "as if" you are moving on with your life with or without them and that you are going to be okay. Keep a good attitude.

13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times! In other words, be the best you can be and look the best you can look at all times. Even when wearing jeans and T-shirt, wear good cologne, b/c it does cause the spouse to take notice.

14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse to see what kind of mood he/she is in or what he/she is going to do or say – get busy, think of things to do. Go to church, go out with friends, etc. in order to get a life for yourself without waiting on your wife/husband.....but it is okay to invite them, just don't act as if it will change your plans if they do or don't go.

15. When at home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation---then don't, wait for him/her) then, be rather scarce or with your words, but don't sound rude or too short like you are mad. If your spouse asks what's wrong....just say "nothing" and have a pleasant expression on your face. Keep it short and simple. Don't get into an argument! Stay polite and don’ t act like you are pouting. Use poise and class. This does not mean to act like you aren’t speaking, but don’t be overly talkative.

16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK THEM NOTHING!! No matter what time he/she comes home! You are giving them space and asking no questions! You enjoy your time with your kids, friends, etc. Remember, you are getting a life, also.

17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.

18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he/she will be missing. (But never ask him/her if he/she has noticed any changes!!) This is important! If you do, then you have blown it.

19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. This can confuse some of them b/c it is not what they expected. Show your spouse someone he/she would want to be around all the time, somebody that can be attractive and fun to be with. That somebody is you! Don't overkill in your attempts to outshine another person your spouse may be having an A with (if there is OP in the picture) to the point of looking like your attempts are "fake" b/c your spouse will see through all of that.

20. All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while) so this takes patient on your behalf.

21. Never lose your cool! Don't let your spouse trap you into a fight. Don't take her/his bait.....leave the room or the house for a while, if you have to, in order to avoid a fight.

22. Don't be overly enthusiastic, don't over-kill; in anything you do b/c it will come across as fake.

23. Do not argue about how your spouse feels about something (it only makes his/her feelings more negative.) Only they know how they feel!

24. Be patient......very, very patient. Give your spouse space and time. When you pull back, it will draw them towards you. It feels opposite of what you want to do, but it works!

25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Look them in the eyes when they talk to you. Do not interrupt them when they are speaking and stop what you may be working on to look at them when they talk. This shows them that you really care about what they are saying.

26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out (or scream and yell).

27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil). This is for your health's sake.

28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. Read self help books, inspirational books or listen to tapes. They are for you only.

29. Know that if you can do 180's, your smallest CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.

30. Do not be openly show that you are "desperate" or "needy" even when you are hurting more than ever and truly feel desperate and needy. This is a large turn-off for your spouse.

31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse, instead, focus on them.

32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because he/she is hurting and scared.

33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.

34. Do not ask your spouse if he/she has noticed your changes. Those changes are for you and for the rest of your life...with or without your spouse. If it is just to get your spouse back...they won't last and the same problems will return.

35. Do not send several TM's or emails throughout the day unless absolutely necessary.

36. It is best to stay away from the bar scenes where other problems easily arise.

37. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes

Now go back and read #8. That answers your question.

But I have owned up to that mistake and have begged for her to forgive.

Begging makes a LBS look pathetic and weak to a WAS. Talk and discuss, don't beg.

I ended up emailing her today a couple of times.

Bad. Don't do it. See 35 above.

I suggested in the email that we take a 3 month break from sex to get our heads on straite. The one website suggest that for a man to take back his sexuality he do this periodically in his marriage. It is also a 180 for me.

Not a 180, it's "more of the same" behavior. It's controlling and manipulative. It's exactly what she doesn't want from you.

Do you think it's too early to suggest marriage counseling or a marriage retreat?

See MrBond's response.

[Many worries]

Very rough night.
Sos, I got the book last night. I decided to break into my emergency cash fund I keep. I told my wife I was going to get some self help and asked if she could watch the kids.
She asked what that meant but then I remember that you shouldn't tell her about DB and be mysterious so I just walked out the door. Score one for me!

I got the book, but when I got home I was too tired to read it so I just watched the Falcons- Saints game. My wife was upstairs doing something...probably sexting her new boyfriend for all I know.

After the game ended I went up to the bedroom to talk to her about things, but it somehow evolved into a relationship talk. She said that she was sorry for calling me fat and ugly, but that I did need to loose weight to be a healthier example to our kids. I said "we both could do better in that department." the Wife then said all the ways I was a bad husband and father.
She also said that she wants us to live separate lives for now but that divorce is not off the table. I then started crying and asking what does that mean. She only said "What do you think?" I asked her if it meant that we couldn't have sex. She angrily glared at me and started to get mean again. She called me a baby, told me to man up and said I should leave the room now. I told her that I was the man of the house and she should leave the master bedroom if she didn't like it. She then threatened to call her dad (our landlord) I backed down pretty quickly and slept in the pull-out in the office.

Then this morning before work say said that she was sorry, but that I needed to really listen to her now. I was so happy she apologize and tired to give her a make up hug. She let me, but didn't hug back. Baby steps right?

I also decided to take a leap and ask her about Marriage Counseling. i know it might be early, but I told her that it wasn't to save our marriage, but to be better communicators with each other. She didn't say no. I figured that was okay under DB because it wasn't to save the marriage.

[someguy1233]

Very rough night.
Sos, I got the book last night. I decided to break into my emergency cash fund I keep. I told my wife I was going to get some self help and asked if she could watch the kids.
She asked what that meant but then I remember that you shouldn't tell her about DB and be mysterious so I just walked out the door. Score one for me!

Don't be rude. You can tell her your reading a book. Or taking some time to clear your head.

After the game ended I went up to the bedroom to talk to her about things, but it somehow evolved into a relationship talk. She said that she was sorry for calling me fat and ugly, but that I did need to loose weight to be a healthier example to our kids. I said "we both could do better in that department." the Wife then said all the ways I was a bad husband and father.

Why did you spin this comment around on her? You should have told her you understood and that your weight it something you're interested in working on. Don't make her feel bad about herself because she hurt you.

She also said that she wants us to live separate lives for now but that divorce is not off the table. I then started crying and asking what does that mean. She only said "What do you think?" I asked her if it meant that we couldn't have sex. She angrily glared at me and started to get mean again. She called me a baby, told me to man up and said I should leave the room now. I told her that I was the man of the house and she should leave the master bedroom if she didn't like it. She then threatened to call her dad (our landlord) I backed down pretty quickly and slept in the pull-out in the office.

Stop bringing up sex. You're not getting it. Stop. stop. stop.

Then this morning before work say said that she was sorry, but that I needed to really listen to her now. I was so happy she apologize and tired to give her a make up hug. She let me, but didn't hug back. Baby steps right?

That's not a baby step. Just because she let you hug her it's not a good thing. She didn't hug you back. The hug was unwelcome. Stop making physical contact with her until she initiates.

I also decided to take a leap and ask her about Marriage Counseling. i know it might be early, but I told her that it wasn't to save our marriage, but to be better communicators with each other. She didn't say no. I figured that was okay under DB because it wasn't to save the marriage.

Stop. She's not in a frame of mind that will make MC beneficial.

[labug]

Many Worries, you should look to your past posts here for help. It seemed that you didn't see any positives about DBing. What happened to cause you to return here for help?

[AnotherStander]

She asked what that meant but then I remember that you shouldn't tell her about DB and be mysterious so I just walked out the door. Score one for me!

OK, so you're not really serious about this and you're just here as a big joke, that's becoming more and more clear.

I got the book, but when I got home I was too tired to read it so I just watched the Falcons- Saints game.

Yup, that pretty much verifies it. Look, these boards are not for poking fun at DB'ing and having a good time at someone else's expense. There are people here who are seriously hurting and desperately need help. There are other people here who are genuinely interested in helping others. And you're wasting both group's time.

[MrBond]

"I told my wife I was going to get some self help and asked if she could watch the kids."

Stop telling her things like that. You're just trying to show her that you are trying to change. Again, it's fake and she knows it.


"She asked what that meant but then I remember that you shouldn't tell her about DB and be mysterious so I just walked out the door. Score one for me!"

No that's a penalty.

"I got the book, but when I got home I was too tired to read it so I just watched the Falcons- Saints game."

Glad to see you have your priorities straight.

"My wife was upstairs doing something...probably sexting her new boyfriend for all I know."

And she will continue to do so unless you take things seriously and stop coming up with excuses about why you're slacking.

"After the game ended I went up to the bedroom to talk to her about things, but it somehow evolved into a relationship talk."

Of course it did because you probably spurred it on. What part of "give her space" don't you get?

"She said that she was sorry for calling me fat and ugly, but that I did need to loose weight to be a healthier example to our kids."

Good reason.

"I said "we both could do better in that department."

BS. Why do you have to keep throwing things back in her face and blaming her also? Take the criticism like a man and just tell her she's right.

"the Wife then said all the ways I was a bad husband and father."

I hope you listened. List those here.

"I asked her if it meant that we couldn't have sex. She angrily glared at me and started to get mean again."

WTF! Didn't you read anything I posted to you? You better get used to having sex with a box of tissues if you keep acting like a whiny, needy child.

"She called me a baby, told me to man up and said I should leave the room now."

She's right because you were acting like an @$$hole.

"I told her that I was the man of the house and she should leave the master bedroom if she didn't like it. She then threatened to call her dad (our landlord) I backed down pretty quickly and slept in the pull-out in the office."

I can see she's the one with the b@lls in the family.

"Then this morning before work say said that she was sorry, but that I needed to really listen to her now."

Don't you get it? She WANTS YOU TO REALLY LISTEN TO HER!

"I was so happy she apologize"

AGAIN, WTF? You should have apologized to her. You were totally wrong and can't admit it.

"and tired to give her a make up hug. She let me, but didn't hug back. Baby steps right?"

You only did that because you think it's going to lead to sex. All it's going to do is lead you to lonliness without your W and kids.

"I also decided to take a leap and ask her about Marriage Counseling. i know it might be early, but I told her that it wasn't to save our marriage, but to be better communicators with each other. She didn't say no. I figured that was okay under DB because it wasn't to save the marriage."

You didn't even read the book so how the h@ll do you think that is okay under DB? IT'S NOT!

Seriously, I don't think you realize how much of a d@ck you're coming across as. It's so clear reading your posts.

Are you serious about saving your M or do you enjoy sitting around alone crying all the time? If you don't start listening, you can kiss your W and your kids goodbye, and I seriously don't blame her.

[Many worries]

Another stander. Please don't give up. I'm sorry I'm hurting and confused and don't want this to be it. My therapist told me that DB was a counterproductive technique to getting back my marriage. I believe him for a long time because I was paying good money to him. Then when the things he had me try didn't work, I had to give it a shot.

It's because of him I was very skeptical. However, I do need to do something different. I'm scared to read the book again honestly, because I see so many stories around here and almost no marriages are saved.

If you don't think you can help, I will go back to the MB site.