MLC, affair, internet pictures, we're a mess

[cantslowdown]

worked out tonight. first time in a couple months (its been a hard couple months for me emotionally now that the boy is back in town). I found my motivation to do it in the fact that we will be seeing both sides of our family at Christmas and her siblings have only been hearing how terrible I am. I figure if I end up taking a beating (that I WILL walk away from rather than engaging since it would be with only half a story and God bless it is Christmas for crying out loud). I will be in a physically fit condition that will help calm my mind and cool my temper. Then, I will only focus on the reason for the season and enjoy family. I am not an actor and I will not be a part of the drama.

[7720]

keep working out...that is going to be good for you...I lost 15 pounds in my first few months...know that you are not alone----there have been a lot and I mean a lot who have been and are going through the same things you are right now. Keep reading posts...I read Another Stander's post as they tend to cheer me up and make me laugh...yes laugh don't forget to do that....

[cantslowdown]

So we actually had a calm discussion tonight. After MC where I told her if she wanted to leave she should leave and she said she had no where to go and I said she could go to the spare room. Well she went to the spare room. Slept there two nights so far and said it was unfair and that I should sleep there. I told her that she is the one who wants to go. If she actually wants to communciate I have no problem with her in our room, but I'm not planning on going anywhere so I'm staying put. She has also opted to stay down there.

I'm not even sure I'm relating all this clearly here.

I am a poor communicator. Apparently when I was shouting down everyone in MC, I was so "cut and dry" with my facts that they made her sound like a horrible mother and a horrible wife. Part of our discussion that I initiated tonight was an apology for acting like that. I said I was bad at communicating and when I was all up in arms I was even worse as I couldn't form into words all the rapid fire thoughts I was having. I told her I was hurt and angry and that I know she is, too, but that I can accept that I was wrong in yelling (talking loudly, shuoting, all in perspective). Its a poor communication tactic.

She said that there were things she heard for the first time in there (like how she dressed nice for eveone else, but didn't make an effort for me)and that NOW there was no chance (even though I've been hearing that same NOW there is no chance all year) that we'd ever get back together.

She also said that I was only being nice because she was going to get most custody. I am nice a lot! I've been too nice. That's why we are in this mess (a good chunk), because she's right, I never did speak up and she as much said she needed me too. She needed someone to tell her no. Ironically enough, now that I am making a stand for my values and what i think is right and good in the world I am a horrible horrible person. Now I admit that since I am weak in this area, I probably do a poor job of coming across as gentle. So as we talked, I stated how I felt sofly, calmly, and firmly. I let her know that we wouldn't be in this mess if there weren't things unspoken or uncommunicated from both sides. I am sure there is stuff she disliked about me (the little stuff that drove the wedges between us) that i don't know about. When she started shouting at me tonight I let her know that we are not going to do that and she lowered her voice. This was a proud moment for me beacuse I controlled my instinctive reaction to argue over her, while also stating my need to not have her shout at me (I don't think she realize she does it because I have the deeper more robust voice). we had another good 10 minutes where i told her that we've got to talk about this stuff if we are going to learn anything about ourselves from this. We will just practice the same old bad relationship habits and this will repeat itself with someone else, plus if she thinks we can continue to communicate with such anger if she leaves, then life will just continue to suck for no good reason since we have children we will never disappear from each others lives. then i told her that I had to go work and went to our bedroom.

Do I want to lose any time with my children? no. Do I want to lose being around my wife? I already have. I'd love to have her back. She is just so far gone from me. I don't really want her to leave, but I am not going to allow her to treat me poorly or with no respect if she expects to continue living here until she finally gets the guts to take on destroying our family for good. The trick is to calmly and gently point out when shes doing it so i dont fly off the handle and say one mroe thing i regret. I haven't done it for years, so its a slow process, standing up for yourself.

I feel like she'll continue to test my boundaries and look for anything to say its just the same old guy. Well I am the same guy, but now she may get a chance to really know me if I let her. I will not be defined by my poor choices in the past. I wil learn form my mistakes.

nobody likes it when a nice guy goes good.

"Life is simply time given to man to learn how to live. Mistakes are always part of learning. The real dignity of life consists in cultivating a fine attitude towards our own mistakes and those of others. It is the fine tolerance of a fine soul. Man becomes great, not through never making mistakes, but by profiting by those he does make; by being satisfied with a single rendition of a mistake, not encoring it into a continuous performance; by getting from it the honey of new, regenerating inspiration with no irritating sting of morbid regret; by building better to-day because of his poor yesterday; and by rising with renewed strength, finer purpose and freshened courage every time he falls."

William Jordan

[cantslowdown]

I should say that the 180s I am not just trying (but instilling in myself here as part of my core values) are open communication (both initiating and ending a conversation that is not superficial), apologizing where it warrants it, NOT raising my voice, but being quiet and letting the other person speak (helps in all areas of my life), and also trying to recognize my own boundaries and calmly stating when they have been crossed.

Like her continued contact with him. I said I wish her success in her job, but I do not approve that he is a part of it (and all their friendship time that I KNOW happens outside of the working). I will support her in improving herself, but I won't approve of contact with him because I know it is wrong, even though I can't MAKE her stop.

In the past I have likened it to me keeping around a girly magazine (or going back to the girly magazine site) because the articles are so well written. I know I can't do that because it is wrong and it hurt her deeper than I may ever know. But she is just so disconnected from me she beleives she can carry on and I just have to suck it up without a word (like a nice guy might). I have boundaries and the rest of my life to live. I can only learn from the ways i have screwed up, not relive them over and over.

[7720]

You will both get equal time with the kids unless she can prove that you are an unfit father....so don't let her pull that on you...which looks like she is...it is 2012 not 1994....the courts are different now...
If you don't stand up to her she will not respect you and you will not be moving forward at all...if she wants to be with other man than she needs to move out of the house and be with him! What if it was the other way around? and you had a young girlfriend that you did not want to leave? Would you expect to stay in the house etc...no you would not,.,, the court will not look kindly at her actions keep all records that you can...just in case...you don't need to support her don't make any promises right now..you are too emotional and need to get control and strong...I think you should tell her to move out and stay away from her as much as possible no R talk! There will be a time for that when you have detached....right now she is detached from you and she has about a year into it than you...you are at an extreme disadvantage when you are negotiating with her....take time....take time for yourself....you are worth just as much as her...I know this is hard but you need to focus on yourself and the kids...all that energy that you are putting on her put on yourself....

[cantslowdown]

Well, since she has "nowhere to go" the basement is about as far as I was able to get her. I have more than enoguh to go on if she really wants to get this to court, but you are right. I am at a disadvantage because whther she realizes it or not, she left me a year ago when HE became her "best friend." She's trying to say there is nothing going on between them anymore other than friendhsip and they don't "want to be together, but they did have a physical affair" (which was all my fault).

I'll cut out the R talk unless we are in with the counselor and only then, I will try and stick to what the counselor asks in the session, without any flagrant passionate ridiculousness. I have to keep telling myself that she wants me to look ridiculous. She wants others to see me as the way she is painting me in her minds eye.

When i say support, I guess I mean, my approval (which probably means nothing to her) of good activities she is doing and disapproval of anytime spent with him. I think you're right that I should just cut it out, because when I write it now, it seems like begging to be involved in her life or directing a change in her.

She'll be gone all weekend for work (again) and I'll have four days, just me and the kids. I have a lot of fun things on the calendar for us. To detach and GAL, would you agree that while we're doing things this weekend, i don't call, text, post to FB or anything? Basically go dark. I mean, I'll TRY to answer if she calls, but only so she can talk to the kids (I want things to be as stable as possible for them). I did that last time she was out of town and all she did was freak out that since I was being quiet, it meant that I was going to tell the college about her ethics violation (and if I did, THEN she would never ever want to be with me again--which I don't know how that is different than the way she is acting now, just without a career). i told her i wasn't thinking of that at all, but she should be worried about her guy when things go south between them. He's not beholden to anything. When you're 19-20 your life is careless (obviously). I do remember having a really good weekend that weekend though. I felt good about the decisions I made and that gave me more confidence in the direction I was taking wiht myself.

Anyway, i think it really got to her that I just decided I was going to get up and go with my kids and do free fun things. She actually said about one event, "I wish you wouldn't have done that with them without me." Ummm.. it was a once a year event on a day she went out of town (of her own accord) and I didn't even know about the event until an hour before I had packed the kids up and gone. We even still got home 3 or 4 hours before her. In return, I told her that we aren't purposely excluding her, but we aren't going to just sit around if she's gone. Life goes on.


sometimes I feel this has gone like this after Batty's divorce and remarriage:
Mad Men: Tomorrowland
Betty Francis: I wanted a fresh start, OK? I'm entitled to that!
Henry Francis: There is no fresh start! Lives carry on.
Betty Francis: Jesus, Henry, just once could you take my side?
Henry Francis: No one's ever on your side, Betty.

[cantslowdown]

Neither of us even acknowledged our anniversary when it passed. On one hand she was out of town on business. on the other hand, we "liked" it when others wished it to us on Facebook, but not a word has actually been spoken about it between us.

The closest reference was last week when we were talking about gifts for the kids she said, "so I guess we're not getting each other anything." To which I replied, "we don't need any stuff its about the family being together and being able to visit extended family."

I don't know if any of this was right or wrong. Has anyone been in a similar situation? I didn't acknowledge the anniversary because I have been receiving the brunt of an assault that said we are only married because she hasn't left yet. Perhaps it was bad advice I followed, but I also felt like I would be begging for the marriage if I had done something.

Should I hold and not get any Christmas gifts? not even a stocking stuffer from Santa? I love the holidays, but I have always been a little less excited about the gifts. I never felt like what I got for her was what she really wanted to receive from me. I can't say for sure what it was she needed/wanted, but I was missing the mark and spending too much doing so.

How are others handling the holidays and anniversaries? I did get her a small birthday gift and a card. She didn't even get me a birthday card or write me a birthday note. I guess you could say she got me a gift "with the kids" but the card form them didn't have her name on it.

[7720]

I have to say in the sitch that you are in...no gifts it will only look like pandering...you have to remember she has been way out of bounds with the way she has acted towards you....you need to keep detaching from her...you will know when you are and you will feel a lot better about yourself and your situation. Don't try to read her mind she is crazy right now and it will only make you feel worse..
REad these and look at number 8 in particular...I know this is hard time to think about but what do you want out of life isn't there some things you have wanted to do but haven't? Now might be the time for you to set some goals for your future with or without her..I hate to mention this CSD but you said she is going out of town for work? Are you sure? If she needs to have a relationship with this guy she needs to move into his dorm room...or his frat house....just saying...I had to say that but don't dwell on it move on...focus on your kids...
1.Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore! This turns the spouse completely off!

2. No frequent phone calls to spouse.......let him/her be the one to call you. Then don't try to hang on to your spouse through conversation.....instead, you say good-bye first.

3. Do not point out good points in marriage or try to get him/her to read marriage books, look at your M pictures, etc. Especially, do not get him/her to read the DB/DR book. That is for you only!

4. Do not follow your spouse around the house like a puppy dog trying to get his/her time and attention.

5. Do not encourage talk about the future. They don't want to think about a future with you at the moment, so stay clear of that subject.

6. Do not ask for help from family members or friends. Don't discuss private matters with them that would upset your spouse.

7. Do not ask for reassurances (That is showing neediness and being clingy.) Show self-respect and self confidence.

8. Do not buy gifts to make "brownie points". (Can't buy his/her love and affection.)

9. Do not schedule dates together at this point. (That is pursuing.) Save for later when the R is much better.

10. Do not spy on spouse by checking emails, phone bills, etc. (Not good for you and will make matters worse.)

11. Do not say "I Love You" (It is being "pushy" and trying to make your spouse say it back to you......he/she will despise you for it.)

12. Act "as if" you are moving on with your life with or without them and that you are going to be okay. Keep a good attitude.
13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times! In other words, be the best you can be and look the best you can look at all times. Even when wearing jeans and T-shirt, wear good cologne, b/c it does cause the spouse to take notice.

14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse to see what kind of mood he/she is in or what he/she is going to do or say – get busy, think of things to do. Go to church, go out with friends, etc. in order to get a life for yourself without waiting on your wife/husband.....but it is okay to invite them, just don't act as if it will change your plans if they do or don't go.

15. When at home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation---then don't, wait for him/her) then, be rather scarce or with your words, but don't sound rude or too short like you are mad. If your spouse asks what's wrong....just say "nothing" and have a pleasant expression on your face. Keep it short and simple. Don't get into an argument! Stay polite and don’ t act like you are pouting. Use poise and class. This does not mean to act like you aren’t speaking, but don’t be overly talkative.

16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK THEM NOTHING!! No matter what time he/she comes home! You are giving them space and asking no questions! You enjoy your time with your kids, friends, etc. Remember, you are getting a life, also.

17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.

18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he/she will be missing. (But never ask him/her if he/she has noticed any changes!!) This is important! If you do, then you have blown it.

19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. This can confuse some of them b/c it is not what they expected. Show your spouse someone he/she would want to be around all the time, somebody that can be attractive and fun to be with. That somebody is you! Don't overkill in your attempts to outshine another person your spouse may be having an A with (if there is OP in the picture) to the point of looking like your attempts are "fake" b/c your spouse will see through all of that.

20. All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while) so this takes patient on your behalf.

21. Never lose your cool! Don't let your spouse trap you into a fight. Don't take her/his bait.....leave the room or the house for a while, if you have to, in order to avoid a fight.

22. Don't be overly enthusiastic, don't over-kill; in anything you do b/c it will come across as fake.

23. Do not argue about how your spouse feels about something (it only makes his/her feelings more negative.) Only they know how they feel!

24. Be patient......very, very patient. Give your spouse space and time. When you pull back, it will draw them towards you. It feels opposite of what you want to do, but it works!

25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Look them in the eyes when they talk to you. Do not interrupt them when they are speaking and stop what you may be working on to look at them when they talk. This shows them that you really care about what they are saying.

26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out (or scream and yell).

27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil). This is for your health's sake.

28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. Read self help books, inspirational books or listen to tapes. They are for you only.

29. Know that if you can do 180's, your smallest CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.

30. Do not be openly show that you are "desperate" or "needy" even when you are hurting more than ever and truly feel desperate and needy. This is a large turn-off for your spouse.

31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse, instead, focus on them.

32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because he/she is hurting and scared.

33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.

34. Do not ask your spouse if he/she has noticed your changes. Those changes are for you and for the rest of your life...with or without your spouse. If it is just to get your spouse back...they won't last and the same problems will return.

35. Do not send several TM's or emails throughout the day unless absolutely necessary.

36. It is best to stay away from the bar scenes where other problems easily arise.

37. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes

[cantslowdown]

worked out again tonight. feels good. I'll say it here because I used to talk about it after ILYBINILWY and later I was told I was bragging when I dropped a few pants sizes (I didn't realize at the time that my ALSO getting in shape would just be annoying). I guess it wasn't bragging when she dropped from a 12 to a 1? Anyway, I'll share here where no one holds it against me for working out. I just want to say if you're going through crap, even 20 minutes every other day with a couple of dumbbells feels fantastic.

[cantslowdown]

Yeah, number 8 is the one I was wrestling with giftwise. Skipping our anniversary was easy, explaining to my kids why santa didn't stuff our stockings is what I was thinking of. Perhaps I discuss an arangement wherre we stuff our own stockings? I can think of a few inexpensive things I'd drop in my own stocking .

I can be sure that she is going out of town for work. Just like I know how the other guy is also involved in that group. Now I've come to expect it because she refuses to change and am just concentrating on all the wonderful things I can do wiht my kids while shes gone.

I think it is an accomplishment for her to leave the bedroom if she cant/wont leave the house. She is a SAHM during the daytime, so our kids need her (and I am the SAHD nights and weekends) and I want her to focus on spending time with them because they are the ones who would get the most destroyed by all this. I do have to say that the past few days when I get home she seems more involved in their play. That is an improvement on what I've seen during all this.

I think I've more than made my point with her on all this, so I need to concentrate on me and the kids. Continuing to discuss her leaving will just get me to break rules 20 and 21 over and over again (which is probably the one she is goign to try and get me to break so I can be labeled as awful). I think now I can also concentrate on rule 24 and 25.