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[25yearsmlc]

Bruce, my words are in blue...OR they have **** in front b/c sometimes the color bar does not work...

Mes tres chers amis,
All your insights and words of encouragement are truly appreciated. I will expose the facts as honestly as possible, so I can realize some truths and amend my course of action accordingly. Thank you, thank you.

Yes but you said those things HERE and so I assume it shows in your behavior. You said she isn't going to church anymore and then you did some mind reading about why. You said it's B/c "she's living in sin" but you never explained that condemning comment.

Well, I meant, the D decision in itself is a sin. I shared that with you because I vent here, but never accused her of that. That wouldn't have changed her. I know better.

Not only is saying the divorce is a sin, to her, useless, it's NOT productive for YOU to even think that way. Seriously, it's just more of the same old you.

You keep the focus on HER instead of you - and YOU are where YOUR focus must be. Period.

I swear I still do not know what YOU feel you did wrong or what you're working on. You gloss over the "minor neglect" and 'things you may have missed when she was sulking"

But Bruce, that's a result of your self centeredness.

When she was happy, all was well. But when she needed something from you SHE was NOT happy b/c you were not paying attention to her or the baby and when she felt lousy

it took energy for YOU to figure out why AND you may have had to DO something different--

so it was a LOT easier for you to ignore it and then blame her for her sulking...

Learn this^^^ lesson...it's a big one.

I'm glad you got some help then. Why not keep it up? That is NOT an insult.

Yes, maybe I should go back to the counselor. I had the impression he listened to me, showed empathy, but never instructed me what to do or give me advice. When I share my problems, I want solutions, not someone who listens to me.


You need a "solution based therapist" (and fyi, Div Busting IS solution based)

and I understand that need. I agree that listening and rehashing the past can be "nice" but not very productive.

So ask the therapist when you call for an appointment. Our solution based MC said if we were not changing any behaviors within 5-6 sessions,

we needed a new therapist.

When I hear a friend tell me she's seen a therapist for a year and has not changed, then I think she just wants to pay for someone to hear her...

First, did she SAY or ACT as if she'd meet you and you could be with her and then NOT show up,
OR did she warn you of wanting a divorce, but you thought it would blow over?

Second, why did her family treat you so badly too? What was your relationship like with them before all this?

- Well, she actually said she wouldn't come to meet me, but I never thought one spouse could ever do that to her H.


To me, that^ means you blew it off. Plain and simple. She told you. You showed up as if she had NOT and then you blamed her for her poor treatment and your shock.

Can you see how a lot of this was self inflicted? YES BRUCE- you did it to yourself.

She told you she would not be there. You still expected her to be. Then she wasn't. Then you blamed her and you still feel sorry for yourself about what she told you would happen. THAT is self inflicted harm you did to yourself.

LEARN FROM THIS....

- As for the insights as to why her parents wouldn't welcome me, either they've listened too closely to W's complaints and taken sides even before I arrived. Or they never liked me really. Info : they didn't come to our wedding.Her sister didn't come, her brother didn't come. Reason: it wasn't a good time of the year, people are busy. I bought it at the time.

Really? You bought that NONE of them could attend, b/c of the time of year?

Did you marry on Christmas Eve, with short notice?

Come on Bruce...why was it okay for you that your wife's family was clearly NOT thrilled with her marrying you?

Why didn't you care about that before now?

Don't get me wrong. SOME in laws can be mean or weird. My MIL hated that I was Catholic...for real, that bothered her so much she did not come to our son's baptism....

but I gather it was something else about you that you are pretending not to know.

Had they met you?

We never spoke on tel due to hour difference, or written cards for Xmas, I don't need to dig deep to see I was just the guy who stole their precious daughter.


OMG....THAT ^^^ IS NOT DIGGING DEEP....Jesus...wake up!

Please tell me that you now realize this "acceptance" of her schedule was NOT seen as "cooperative" of you.

It was seen as more evidence of how uninvolved you are as a father. It proved her negative image of you was true.

EYE OPENER HERE! I saw it as being agree-able and kind, I was being lazy, and uninvolved again!

Just that you are glad to be able to do it and look forward to more time WITH HIM...don't mention time with HER...she has made it clear that she does not want that, for now.

How am I supposed to make her understand that her company is enjoyable and that is what I want then?

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*******You can't "make her" understand or do or feel anything...or show her much all at once at the beginning.

Right now your goal is showing you are a caring father...that's probably all you can do for now. It's enough for you now anyhow since you NEVER ONCE have watched him even for a minute.

Try as you might, that cannot be all her fault...period.

Baby steps....LATER On when you two can co-parent, THEN you can build on the
camaraderie you feel, maybe*****.

Then ask open ended questions, such as her comments, thoughts, opinion on matters (NOT related to the marriage or relationship)
and about her dreams or her goals, NOT related to you directly OR indirectly...it's not a reconnaissance mission (yet) it's to get her to open up more with you

That's what I call a good advice. Thank you!

I not only said and written things, I have acted on it as well. The way I treat her now is focus on her and my son : opposite of what I used to do. If you have suggestions of what other things I could be doing to show my goodwill, I'd most certainly appreciate.

Please be more specific b/c "the opposite" isn't clear to me. Tell me 2 or 3 things SHE WOULD complain about if she were here, that you did...that you can or have changed.

Well, err, I NEVER complained about the cold, the snow, the rent prices, the city, the country, how short the visits were (maybe I should have), the food, how lonely I was or the fricking lack of mountains, sea or things to do. In normal circumstances, I would have let her know how cold and boring this place is and how we were going to get the f out of here.

BRUCE READ MY QUESTION^^ AGAIN...OMG...please get this.

I asked you what SHE would COMPLAIN ABOUT ---regarding YOU, NOT the weather or what YOU hate...

this amazes me. You still don't see how negative & judgmental you sound and SO NOT FUN to be around...you need to get this SOON...you sound like a man who does not know how to love someone so that their needs are ;put ahead of his own AND you sound really negative and snobby too.

I sought more time with my son, even asked to have him overnight, one night a week, but she always resisted my efforts.

Don't blame her for this. The Court will ask about how it was in France and it doesn't sound as if you did much there.[/color]

It doesn't count back in France, because she was breast-feeding, as if I could do it. And she jumped out of bed in the middle of the night when the baby sighed, so of course I let her go and didn't bothered.


It DOES count if the judge or social worker asks what your prior parenting was like. I'm a L and I ask that you stop assuming your past does not matter. It does.

Your son is only 19 months...you've missed most of it. And the "i didn't bother" does NOT make you sound concerned. You sound as if you are whining and rolling your eyes and could not care less why the boy was crying or "sighing"...No offense but you better lose that attitude asap...

your sarcasm makes you sound like a real jerk, btw.

But I don't blame her for fearing giving up our son, and I admit having made a huge mistake in giving the impression I was not concerned.

I gently kept reminding her that I'd love to get more involved in my son's life.

and as we said before, that^^ was not getting you reconciled. It was cementing the lousy visitation she arranged for your son.

I see this now. Since, 5 minutes ago.

She told you she wanted a divorce. Those things cost money. As long as she could get you to act in fear and remain paralyzed into inaction, she could wait on the divorce AND

she could dictate the terms. In fact she did just that. The longer you allowed that the harder it will be for you to get it fixed.

Yes, I was afraid of the D word. Still am in fact. Didn't want to encourage her in that direction. I wanted her to reconsider. Make peace with me. Sit and have a conversation. Something, but not D..

THIS filing of yours is the first ACTION you have taken that says otherwise...

True. Thanks to you all my friends. I'm grateful you were here to guide me when my "strategy" didn't work, and helped me take the step.

IF your son doesn't know you now well enough to feel comfy going off with you ...
maybe your w will spend longer periods of time with the two of you. But I wonder about you learning to be his dad WITHOUT a member of her family OR HER being there.

Wouldn't that be a blast if she came home to "teach" me to take care of him, then realized it's the place where she always should have been?

Oh I'm getting ahead of myself here...

[color:#3333FF]

********yes you are, but it has occurred to me as a LONG TERM goal of yours...getting her to see you with him AFTER you have bonded and gotten comfortable. Don't rush that b/c the minute you "blow it" or he cries or you drop him or don't feed him right, if she's a witness then that's a big set back.

Get to know him and understand that there will be mistteps. You will miss a cue but if you stay with it, you'll find what he likes and what comforts him and IF SHE tries to help you, listen to her....

but do it on your own

or you'll always dump it on her-- and then blame her for it.*******

Although her filing for D is in a sense, her getting mad at me for asking to have my son more time.

Hello?? Here, ^^^you are already negatively mind reading about her motives for filing!

Hey, I'm an engineer, not a psychologist. When someone files for D, I don't need to be a mind-reader to understand she is angry about something I did or afraid of something, like you said.
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Try to recall my suggestion that you keep the legal matters separate from your fathering efforts...and

don't mention the legal matters at all.

Let her associate the ugly part of this with the lawyers you pay money to...and the time spent with your son interacting with him as his dad, as a totally separate issue.

Great advice. Will focus on that in the coming days..

To show generosity and less self-centredness, I gave her back in July a check of big amount, to "help with the expenses".

well, that's a nice gesture. But It's money...and she benefitted by not filing yet...and she probably saw it as a bribe, but then felt entitled to it...

You know, there's only so much I can do : write letters, write emails, telephone (to her parents house), give money to her, say hello how are you when we meet, buy toys for my son, play with him and say good-bye I had a nice time when we part.

Let me ask you this, what do you believe her love languages are?

The worse thing is that I even read the book a couple of years ago, mind you!
And if you want my opinion, I'm not sure what she sees as a loving thing, maybe the Acts of Service one as number 1, followed by Quality time I'd say.


So then a $$$check would NOT have been in her love language, but simply an easy gesture for you to make? Yes I know money counts as money and I am not minimizing it, but what if you planned an activity for her and your son to go one with you?

LIke I said, the zoo or a chldren''s museum---something CHILD centered.

A check for money is so NOT time consuming and it's NOT quality time together or an act of service, that I can see someone viewing it as a bribe or worse...

and an easy fix. ALSO it seems you gave it with an expectation of something from her in return and a woman can pick up on that fast.

Then it's NOT so welcome. B/c hey, it's not such a gift. It's a trade off, right? And you are angry she did not express gratitude, too...so she has a point,

n'est ce pas?

I don't know what you mean by this^^^ other than writing a check to her. You said she is better around you too, so I guess you DID get something in return. But as for your kindness and love and attention (when? The ONE day a week you see them?)

It's two times a week I see them, and it's 1,5 hour each time.
And I showed kindness and all, by, you know, being smiley, giving compliments, asking her about her day, what courses she was taking, when's the next test, how is her part time job. Frankly, what else can I do? My maneuver margin is very limited.


think about an act of service or a quality time activity as I mentioned. OR get her car fixed, or buy a USEFUL gift for the boy that she'd have to get otherwise and OR volunteer to go with her to check out the daycare (you have that right anyhow)

Can you tell us WHAT SHE SAID were the reasons and please, please you must be as specific as possible so we can advise accordingly.

Since all your posts are so good in general, I will trust you and paste-copy a portion of the Bomb email she sent me in June

Bruce, I suggest you gear up and post the whole thing (minus intimate issues if you prefer) b/c I have to say I still feel like things are left out here and I cannot imagine why.

Sure you are embarassed but hey, I don't know you! You're pretty safe here.



:"We disagree strongly on key issues, notably in the areas of finances, child-rearing and the importance of family in terms of priority level. These fundamental differences between us have made it impossible for me to consider a fulfilling, long-term...etc..."
(Note. Finances = translate : I spent the money on fun things for me.)


Read it again Bruce...just this part^^^ is NOT translating to me that you buy yourself things and no one else. She mentions child rearing but I guess you ignored it b/c you ignored him????

The money is only a part of it....think hard.
DIG DEEPER and my guess is that I'm sugggesting you dig deeper than you ever have before.
Looks like we've pin-point the culprit reason, haven't we?

um, NO

Did YOU ever arrange mc in France? Did you seek out pastoral counselling? I mean, what did you do to save the marriage when it was crumbling around her?

None of it. I didn't have a clue.


Au revoir, a bientôt.