Put your hands up; it's a wild ride

[Denver_2010]

Why are you afraid of confronting your W about OM?

[Denver_2010]

How often are you going to Happy Hours?

And if HH is not your thing, go out and do something with friends, on your own. She doesn't have to know what it is. Maybe you could set up a schedule, W you go out Tues and I go on Th.

You're sounding a little like the long-suffering husband sitting home with the baby. Change that up, go out, have a good time, stay out past 10:30. I know you said you always went to bed at a certain time and maybe that's what's driving her crazy-maybe she feels like you've turned into an old married couple. You two are just entering the prime of your lives, don't waste it.

YES ^^^

No offense, but your M sounds like it lacks excitement and has for a while. I have been there, so I get it. This very well could be the root cause of what your W is going through, her confusion.

I highly suggest that you start jazzing things up. Begin with YOU, by doing some GAL. I've read about 6 pages of your thread, and the most GAL that I've read about you doing is taking up reading again and going to get a massage... and the place was closed! What do you like to do that you haven't done in a while? What have you never done that you have always wanted to do? Loosen your tie a little and have some fun. Your W will notice. She will become curious. And then, when the time is right, you can ask her to join you... to have a little fun WITH you.

Bug is right, with your W or without her, life is too short to live on such a short leash.

[Denver_2010]

Do you all think I should be more forthcoming in the details of my plans?

Yes, if she asks. But don't contact her when you are out. Unless, of course, you have told her that you will be home by a certain time (which I suggest that you don't) and you are going to be later.

You: "I'm going out" or "I have plans"

W: "where are you going?"

You: "This place."

If your W continues to press for information, it means that she is curious about what you are doing. That is good. Not bad. Don't discourage it.

And by not answering and being too vague, you are being rude and setting bad precedent. You don't like it when she does this to you, so don't do it to her.

BUT, don't give out more info than you need to. I KNOW. Tough balancing act.

Create intrigue and mystery by doing stuff that you wouldn't normally do... not by being vague.

For example, and this is a bit drastic, but I took three trips out of state to visit friends that my W did not know. Now, I was in the Last Resort Technique when I did this, but it was stuff that I wouldn't have done normally. W found out about each of the trips, and each time it scared her (came out as her being p!ssed). It scared her because she began to worry that i was changing. Me changing equated to her possibly losing my interest.

Being vague is better left for when/if you are in the Last Resort Technique and not having regular communication. Doing something different is good at all times.

Make sense?

[Denver_2010]

Perhaps I'll continue to go out and let her know where I'm going, but keep my timing unpredictable? I don't know..

That's the ticket! And do things that you wouldn't normally do!

Usually go to sports bars? Go to a martini lounge instead. Usually meet friends for coffee? Go see some live music instead.

[Denver_2010]

" She'll just say, "I'm going to a happy hour." She doesn't divulge any further details"

Then that's what you should do.

^^^^
She does not get to cake eat here.

I disagree. The tit for tat is not a good way to go about this. Plus, you don't ask. Your W does. Now if you asked and she refused to answer, that would be different.

[Denver_2010]

I was reading Denver's comments in another thread relating to Plan A vs Plan B.

It really hit me as I feel like I'm sitting in Plan A. I'm trying to be the rock or lighthouse shining the way home for my W. I'm nearly always a happy person around her. I help hold the household together. But this may simply be enabiling her to never make any decision. I really wonder how long I should continue this behavior. Especially with the possibility of OM.

I've been strongly debating bringing up possible OM to W. But every time I ask myself what good would come from confirming it (assuming she'd tell the truth)? I don't think it'd be usefull unless I had my mind made up to either leave her or go through exposure, etc.

Okay... my last post to your thread for now (there are a few up there).

First, others will disagree, but I do NOT believe in exposure of affairs. At least not at the outset. Can discuss this more if it is ever confirmed that your W is in an A. Let's hope not.

However, IMHO, there is good evidence that your W is having at least an EA. The phone secrecy, the multiple work happy hours... ugh.. sorry. Tell tale signs, IMO.

It is also most likely the cause of your W's back and forth with you. YOu are her H, she loves you, she is afraid to lose you (and lucky for you she feels that)... but she is bored. Going out and drinking is fun and exciting. If OM is in the picture, he is probably interesting and fun... as opposed to you who she knows backwards and forwards.

My guess from what I've read is that it is JUST an EA at this point. There is still too much attachment to you, IMO, for there to be a PA.

I know that I probably shouldn't state this conclusion, because it is unconfirmed. And I could definitely be wrong. But I've also learned from my own experience and from reading about countless other situations here, that where there is smoke, there is usually fire.

What good can come from confirming it? It's information. Intelligence. You will know better what you are dealing with. You can make informed decisions for yourself. You can begin the process of learning about the concept of true forgiveness, even while the A is ongoing, if that is what you want to do.

Unfortunately, confirming is very difficult. I am torn on the concept of snooping. It can be something that can drive you crazy, but it can be helpful until you have at least either confirmed or snuffed out the idea of an A. Personally, I would continue to monitor phone records. That's how I discovered my W's, at the time, EA. It is pretty easy to spot if your W is spending tons of time on the phone with, and texting, an OM.

Either way, I would hold off on confronting W until you have more information. And I would NEVER divulge where I got that information.

---

Hopefully you can see from my multiple posts (sorry) where I'd go with this if I were you.

Hang in there. Rome wasn't built in a day.

[someguy1233]

Denver, first I'd like to say thanks for jumping in my thread. I've read so many of your posts here and really appreciate your thoughts on my sitch!

Why are you afraid of confronting your W about OM?

This is a great question.

I think I'm afraid to bring it up with the limited proof. She acts suspicious: cell phone behavior, web history shows and interest in Facebook privacy settings, a few long calls to possible OM. (One call was immediately after dropping the bomb and leaving the house!) I did find a picture in her email, but it was discovered via snooping. I don't want to destroy her trust.

She works with OM, so there aren't very many calls on her cell phone. They both have iPhones which use the iMessage app, thus avoiding text messaging showing on the phone bill.

I'm also afraid that it would rock the boat too much. Right now she's still open to spending time and talking with me. I'm afraid of losing that too.

[someguy1233]

How often are you going to Happy Hours?

And if HH is not your thing, go out and do something with friends, on your own. She doesn't have to know what it is. Maybe you could set up a schedule, W you go out Tues and I go on Th.

You're sounding a little like the long-suffering husband sitting home with the baby. Change that up, go out, have a good time, stay out past 10:30. I know you said you always went to bed at a certain time and maybe that's what's driving her crazy-maybe she feels like you've turned into an old married couple. You two are just entering the prime of your lives, don't waste it.

YES ^^^

No offense, but your M sounds like it lacks excitement and has for a while. I have been there, so I get it. This very well could be the root cause of what your W is going through, her confusion.

I highly suggest that you start jazzing things up. Begin with YOU, by doing some GAL. I've read about 6 pages of your thread, and the most GAL that I've read about you doing is taking up reading again and going to get a massage... and the place was closed! What do you like to do that you haven't done in a while? What have you never done that you have always wanted to do? Loosen your tie a little and have some fun. Your W will notice. She will become curious. And then, when the time is right, you can ask her to join you... to have a little fun WITH you.

Bug is right, with your W or without her, life is too short to live on such a short leash.

You're right. I haven't pushed GAL activities. When W is willing to spend time with me, I feel like I have to be around her, even if it's just watching TV together. Could this be seen as a negative? Maybe if W is bored, I'm playing right into her expectations... we once again just sit on the couch and watch TV like we always did. Maybe I need to let go of this "non-quality time" and just leave the house sometimes. She can watch TV on her own?

[someguy1233]

What good can come from confirming it? It's information. Intelligence. You will know better what you are dealing with. You can make informed decisions for yourself. You can begin the process of learning about the concept of true forgiveness, even while the A is ongoing, if that is what you want to do.

Unfortunately, confirming is very difficult. I am torn on the concept of snooping. It can be something that can drive you crazy, but it can be helpful until you have at least either confirmed or snuffed out the idea of an A. Personally, I would continue to monitor phone records. That's how I discovered my W's, at the time, EA. It is pretty easy to spot if your W is spending tons of time on the phone with, and texting, an OM.

Either way, I would hold off on confronting W until you have more information. And I would NEVER divulge where I got that information.

I do want to forgive. I just don't really know how to prove an A since cell logs don't show the full story.

I think I see where you'd go... continue to monitor for evidence of A. GAL, GAL, GAL. Become more interesting, spontaneous, and mysterious.

[someguy1233]

This isn't really related to my sitch... but I for some reason I found it to be an interesting interaction:

Last night W informed me she was really frustrated with one of her very close friends. (This is her bipolar friend that I’ve mentioned before)

Yesterday her friend told her she was thinking about getting divorced. W is very annoyed by it. She believes her friend had the best marriage possible, best sx life, and best connection. In the past she’d mentioned to me how she envies their relationship.

W said, “She needs to slow down and think. These types of things can’t be suddenly decided. Look at us! We’ve been at this how long.. and we don’t know what we’re doing!”