Hello! 20 year marriage teetering... (part II)

[labug]

Filing for D is very different from dropping the rope as I understand it. Dropping the rope is you stop the tug-of-war, the resistance is gone.

It's good that you recognize what you did in the past and changed those things. Were you actively involved in day-to-day kid life when the kids were younger? ie making dr appts, staying home when they were sick, shopping, cooking, knowing who needed new shoes and underwear?

If I were to interpret her comment I would say that there are varying degrees of "being there" for kids. Maybe if she was going to the meet and greet, she felt she would be more comfortable if you weren't there.

No matter, it will be very difficult for her to acknowledge the improved AS, as it's all so new. All she has to base things on is your past performance. Not fair, maybe but that's the reality.

I think too, that you're looking to her for your next step. You were almost out but then you found out she might not be done so now you're back in. Believe me, I understand this and have been there, still am on some days.

Keep moving on your path, she'll either decide to follow and catch up or not.

Dating?

Are you done with this R?

[Breakdown]

I definitely don't expect an overnight turnaround from her, and if she had one I don't think I would accept her back into the home that quickly. There's a lot we need to work on first. You may recall from my old thread that there was a Retrouvaille here in October, but W had just moved out and I didn't feel the timing was good. There's another in January and I think the timing for that one is perfect. So I see that as the next step. I'm going to wait about a week before talking to her about it on the off chance that she does decide to approach me about the R talk she mentioned. And if she doesn't approach me, then I'll approach her about Retro and describe it to her as a means to improve our communications with each other. I'm not going to present it to her as an effort to save the M. I don't want to put pressure and expectations on her about the experience.

I think retrouv would be awesome and I agree on the way to explain it. Communication is really the guts of the weekend.

We had one couple in our group that was only weeks from finalizing their divorce. They went just to make sure it was what they really wanted (they weren't even sure they were both going to show up when they got there lol). It was pretty awesome to see them turn around and re-commit to each other in the matter of a day or two.

Of course, my W only went to keep the peace and didn't really embrace the program, so we're still in limbo-land. That said, she still does go to the CORE meetings if I want to go and she does say that there was a lot of useful things in it, especially the communication part.

[ForeverYoung]

She said to me that she's still confused, and she said to whoever in my family she talked to that she still doesn't love me. Those are two big hurdles she needs to clear before we can have any kind of meaningful reconciliation discussion. And it may take months for her to jump those hurdles.

So I pray for patience because I sure don't have much

I believe recommitting to the marriage comes before "falling back in love" does. She has to decide to do this before the feelings of love will return. That whole "Love is a choice" thing...

[Spartan]

But, one of my faults that I've done a 180 on is I did complain a lot. I would gripe about having to do sooooo much stuff with the kids. Just to W, not to the kids. And I did (and do) enjoy the activities thoroughly, but I would gripe to W and say things like "good grief, it seems like we never get a break from this stuff, I can't believe there's ALWAYS some deal we have to go to here or there, I can't ever get anything done at home because of all of this." I was just venting, it's not that I didn't want to go.

Whoa, light bulb moment for me! This is a new 180 for me that has been staring me in the face for years. In one of our arguments a couple weeks ago about custody my W brought up how I don't even like spending time with kids because I always complain about doing things. I wrote it off as her re-writing history because I spend more time with them then anyone and I don't miss anything they do. I volunteer for just about every thing they're involved in (coaching, kid small group leader at church, taking kids to parties, etc...). In my head I know I wouldn't miss any of it for the world and love doing it but I admit to complaining about it to W. Sometimes I'd like to just watch football or baseball on Saturday instead of going to gymnastics, swimming, coach either T-ball or soccer, and do other assorted activities and I'd say something in passing to her. Now I see she probably actually believed my complaining was real and not just me venting to vent. Figured she knew the truth since I keep volunteering to do things with kids. 180 on this starts now! I'm stealing this and putting it in my own thread also .

[AnotherStander]

Filing for D is very different from dropping the rope as I understand it. Dropping the rope is you stop the tug-of-war, the resistance is gone.

For me, dropping the rope is completely letting go of the spouse and saying you're done and moving on. I wasn't saying D was dropping the rope, but I was driving home the point of how "done" I am (or was).

Were you actively involved in day-to-day kid life when the kids were younger? ie making dr appts, staying home when they were sick, shopping, cooking, knowing who needed new shoes and underwear?

Oh yes, definitely. W and I have always split kid duties pretty evenly. It was only a few months before BD that my wife told me through teary eyes that there was no way she could survive without me, that I did so much for her and the kids that she could not possibly have a life without me. She has always told me and others what a great father I am. She has never said anything bad about me or my parenting skills until BD. As I've mentioned, I had faults and I've worked hard to do 180's on them. I'm not trying to say I'm perfect. But W even said months ago in MC that I had reversed every concern she had and had become "the perfect husband." She did not have one negative thing to say about me in MC, she just kept saying that she didn't "want to try". And I think she's still stuck there, she's in pain over it all but I still don't think she wants to "try" yet. So she's looking for excuses not to try.

I believe I said this before, but I think we spent too much time focusing on the kids and not enough on our M. About all we did as H and W is ML a couple of times a week. Other than those instances, we weren't H and W, we were mom and dad. Heck, S9 was still sleeping between us in bed until about 18 months ago.

I think retrouv would be awesome and I agree on the way to explain it. Communication is really the guts of the weekend.

Thanks for your insight, sorry it hasn't repaired your R but maybe it's laid the groundwork for it!

I believe recommitting to the marriage comes before "falling back in love" does. She has to decide to do this before the feelings of love will return. That whole "Love is a choice" thing...

Yup, you're quite right. I don't think I wrote my thoughts out well on that, what I was trying to say is not that I expect her to have those feelings of being in love before we reconcile, but rather, just regain the basic feelings of "love" more along the lines of "companionship". IE, I don't want her back in the house until she is ready to show basic affection towards me. If she just wants to move back in because it's "right" for the kids but wants to be parenting roommates only, I won't allow that.

[AnotherStander]

Now I see she probably actually believed my complaining was real and not just me venting to vent.

EXACTLY. I think that's precisely what happened to me too. The whole time I thought W felt the same way I did, that it was aggravating to have so little time to do anything else. So I thought I was complaining to a sympathetic ear. But she interpreted it as my true feelings about going rather than just venting. It's confusing to me because we always sat together at the events and I always mentioned to her how proud it made me feel to see our kids doing these things, and how wonderful their performances were/ are. So I would have thought that she understood the venting (which was usually done before we had to go somewhere, never at the actual event) was in fact just venting. Lesson learned!

[subguy]

So I thought I was complaining to a sympathetic ear. But she interpreted it as my true feelings about going rather than just venting. It's confusing to me because we always sat together at the events and I always mentioned to her how proud it made me feel to see our kids doing these things, and how wonderful their performances were/ are. So I would have thought that she understood the venting (which was usually done before we had to go somewhere, never at the actual event) was in fact just venting. Lesson learned!

She's rewriting history to fit her mood. It's a good 180 to have, I will make it one of mine as well. Positive not negative.

[AnotherStander]

Nothing new to report, despite the developments a few days ago nothing has changed. W has not reached out in any way since then, and I'm still dim with her. We've traded a few kid-related texts and that's it.

On the drive to work this morning I was thinking about the distance/ pursuit dynamic and how it has never applied to my sitch at all. Initially when W distanced I pursued and she distanced further. After finding DB I held my ground instead of pursuing and eventually distanced myself from her. She has never once pursued though.

She's rewriting history to fit her mood. It's a good 180 to have, I will make it one of mine as well. Positive not negative.

You're right of course. She's forgetting the good and focusing on the bad. So all the emotional comments I made to her (I would literally get choked up) while watching the kids perform are forgotten for now, but the venting/ complaining is remembered with perfect clarity. I'm not saying I don't take her comments seriously, I do. I've done a 180 on that and don't ever complain to her now about anything. But I'm not going to beat myself up over it because my positive reactions to the events trumped the venting by a long shot, and some day hopefully the fog will clear and she'll remember that.

[7720]

"I believe I said this before, but I think we spent too much time focusing on the kids and not enough on our M. About all we did as H and W is ML a couple of times a week. Other than those instances, we weren't H and W, we were mom and dad. Heck, S9 was still sleeping between us in bed until about 18 months ago."

We did the same things! Dr. Sears...&that co sleeping did not help us much at all!...My W would even address me as Papa! That's who I was! It just hit me...that is who she saw me as and I filled the role of Papa very well maybe too good...

[labug]

We all have a choice on when we discontinue the co-sleeping.

I posted about this several months ago, how sad it is that when the BD happens, we suddenly want both ourselves and our Ss to put the M first when we didn't put it first before.

Old behaviors are hard to change.