Welcome to catch-22

[25yearsmlc]

My dear friends,
First of all I want to say thank you. I know it takes time to read a sitch, understand well, and respond with wisdom and impartially.

Because I am earnest, I will answer all the questions the best I can, and pay attention to your advice, to save this M.
I might have sounded like a bad person, haughty and all, but am really not. People would describe me as affable and forthcoming.

It's been a long time since I'm not trying to be right any more. And it looks like I need to eat some more humble pie. So be it, if I want to have my W back. The plan to get rid of self-righteousness is to never accuse my W of anything. I can say, without boasting, that I did precisely that. And since we're talking about accusations/negativity, I also (except one short email in June) NEVER used our Christian beliefs, or the Bible to condemn her, or convince her.


Yes but you said those things HERE and so I assume it shows in your behavior. You said she isn't going to church anymore and then you did some mind reading about why. You said it's B/c "she's living in sin" but you never explained that condemning comment.


And yes, I saw a personal counsellor one month after I arrived, but he helped me more with my "dark" thoughts to say the least.

I'm glad you got some help then. Why not keep it up? That is NOT an insult.

I had to see a shrink for a solid year and a good MC for longer...and I had a DB coach too.

I've been there, done that. I needed help b/c I did not have the tools for this.

And why was I expecting my wife to welcome me? Well, because I, nasty as I am, wouldn't have inflicted to my worse enemy what I had to go through upon my arrival. Physical pain, sleepless nights, anguishes, acids in the stomach, heart beats, sorrow, lack of hunger, lack of wanting to continue to live, I think many people on this site can relate, I will stop the description here. No one deserves that, if I wasn't a coward, I would maybe have done something irreparable to myself. This is NO JOKE.

No one thinks you are joking. And suicide IS a supreme act of cowardice and selfishness. I have a great uncle who killed himself...that's literally all I know of him.

My h's best friend lost his dad to suicide (after his third wife left him)...their 13 y/o son found him dead so he's messed up for life...and almost all of the family including the WAW just felt SO ANGRY AT HIM for doing that.

No one felt pity or regret. No one said "gee I sure am sorryr about how I/WE treated him..." they saw him as weak and cowardly and ultimately as a selfish man. That is not what you want to be remembered for OR what you want to teach your son.

So don't gloss over the wreckage a parent's suicide has on a child AND that child's children too...it's multi generational....

wouldn't it be easier and better and more moral AND happier,

to see a good IC and figure out where you can work on yourself and become the best Bruce you can become?

ANYHOW,
My point in asking about your expecations was, since you knew things were not good in the marriage, that they were "distant", I'm asking two things really.


First, did she SAY or ACT as if she'd meet you and you could be with her and then NOT show up,

OR did she warn you of wanting a divorce, but you thought it would blow over?

Second, why did her family treat you so badly too? What was your relationship like with them before all this?

As I type this, I have my son's soon to be ex gf here in our home b/c she is moving back east but her apartment isn't ready yet (in NYC where the hurricane hit). I'd never toss her out.

And she isn't married to my son NOR is she the mother of my grandchild so it would take a lot of bad stuff on her end for me to treat her the way your inlaws treated you.

I'm asking for you to come up with some insights as to why they'd do that.

And again, dig deep.

Now, what have I done, to back up my nice letters, with the best intentions? Well, I have accepted all her schedule for visitation,

Please tell me that you now realize this "acceptance" of her schedule was NOT seen as "cooperative" of you.

It was seen as more evidence of how uninvolved you are as a father. It proved her negative image of you was true.

The only thing you have DONE that an involved dad would do, is to seek more time with him. She forced the legal option on you.

Your goal is to undermine her view of you as an uninvolved unloving unconcerned dad.

You have taken the first step. Stay on that message. It's not about her, it's not about the marriage. It's NOT about you taking him away from her, but about YOU being in his life more. A boy needs a father and that job is yours.



and in my 2x 1.5 hour visits per week, I have played with my son in the park, invited them to McDo and paid for their goodies.

No offense, but just so you know, this ^^^ is normal stuff ANY father would do AND enjoy...same goes for opening her door, and putting him in the car, etc. Plus it's ONE frickin' day a week so yeah, it's kind of NOT a big deal so don't mention it to her like you think it's unique, okay?

Just that you are glad to be able to do it and look forward to more time WITH HIM...don't mention time with HER...she has made it clear that she does not want that, for now.



I have asked questions about her life (studies, part-time work) and tried to listen and nod the best I could, but the answers were always very short and matter of factly, so it wasn't easy.

Then ask open ended questions, such as her comments, thoughts, opinion on matters (NOT related to the marriage or relationship)
and about her dreams or her goals, NOT realted to you directly OR indirectly...it's not a reconnaissance mission (yet) it's to get her to open up more with you

and you have to ACT more relaxed around her for her to feel more relaxed...

I needed some anti anxiety meds for awhile so I would not "lose my sh1t" around my h...

once she can feel a little more relaxed around you, you build on that, incrementally.

I shared about things I was doing, been always upbeat and gentle, held the door, helped her put her coat on, carried "the toddler", put him in the car, took him out of the car, fed him pots of toddler food, bought him toys.. you get the picture.

okay just to remind you, this^^^ is normal stuff for dads and h's to do. If it's new to YOU then I applaud the progress

but must remind you that she won't think it's a big deal for a long time, if ever.

But if it's new for you, then hey, it's a change and that's good.


Since I don't have the "home advantage", it took months of changed behaviour before she stopped sulking and acting more "normal" around me. (baby step he?)

sounds like progress.

I not only said and written things, I have acted on it as well. The way I treat her now is focus on her and my son : opposite of what I used to do. If you have suggestions of what other things I could be doing to show my goodwill, I'd most certainly appreciate.

Please be more specific b/c "the opposite" isn't clear to me. Tell me 2 or 3 things SHE WOULD complain about if she were here, that you did...that you can or have changed.

Now, I have to make something clear: I sought more time with my son, even asked to have him overnight, one night a week, but she always resisted my efforts.

Don't blame her for this. The Court will ask about how it was in France and it doesn't sound as if you did much there.

Besides, it doesn't help you to start out blaming...remember, she fears you want to remove him from her life. Make it clear it's not about taking him from her, but about you being in his life more.

So instead of saying "I would have had time with him BUT YOU STOPPED ME"...you stay on your message -

"I was forced to use the court system to become more involved in his life, but at least now it's clear, I intend to help raise this young man."

If she blurts out about how you never cared before, you can admit it was not as noticable before b/c you lived together but the point is, again,

stay on message. The past passed. Be in the present.

"W, my insufficient involvment before, is a huge regret of mine. If I had it to do over again, there are many things I'd do differently. But I get it now. From this day forward, I'm here for our son."


For the sake of reconciliation, I didn't enter into a legal battle to ascertain my rights right away, but gently kept reminding her that I'd love to get more involved in my son's life.

and as we said before, that^^ was not getting you reconciled. It was cementing the lousy visitation she arranged for your son.

The longer you "managed" with a once a week "visit" the easier it is for her to argue that that is what it SHOULD be...after all, why uproot the child's schedule now when he is used to only seeing his father a few hours ONE day a week?

Do you now see this?


About a month ago, people on this site told me that custody of my son was more important than the relationship for the moment, or I might lose both, which led to me asking more openly, and her refusing more openly. I politely said I would seek help from a lawyer because the visitation pattern wasn't fair, which caused her to run to her lawyer and file for 100% custody and D.


If I didn't know better, I'd say you want to blame us. AND it's really weird b/c you almost seem to think your approach was getting you somewhere. It was not. And everyone here pretty much saw it hte same way and so does your L.

She told you she wanted a divorce. Those things cost money. As long as she could get you to act in fear and remain paralyzed into inaction, she could wait on the divorce AND

she could dictate the terms. In fact she did just that. The longer you allowed that the harder it will be for you to get it fixed.

She believed you are a selfish man who doesn't care much about time w/your son.

THIS filing of yours is the first ACTION you have taken that says otherwise...

In the long run, you had no choice but to stop fueling her negative images and that takes ACTION, not words.


Yes, now she will be inconvenienced if I have 50% custody, and no I haven't been alone with my son for one minute, let alone take care of him for a whole day or night, so I understand her concern.

As I said above, make sure you OWN that and seek out ways for her to get comfortable with it. It'll have to happen

or it never will....make sense? IOW you will get time with him in all likelihood, and YES it'll be uncomfortable til he gets to know you.

IF your son doesn't know you now well enough to feel comfy going off with you

then maybe the court will suggest a third party to help with that,

OR Maybe your w will spend longer periods of time with the two of you. But I wonder about you learning to be his dad WITHOUT a member of her family OR HER being there. IT's really the best way to learn it.

My h spent some time with our son while I studied for the bar and it was great for THEM to bond then...I'm not sure it would have happened for a lot longer if I had not needed his help. But it sure paid off.

I would try my best to take him places like a child's museum or zoo, for short spans of time to get him to feel comfortable and for her to see that he can have fun with you.

And not b/c you want to be with HER, per se.

make sense?

One thing you're absolutely right, I shouldn't assume the worse of her. I shouldn't already being negative about her reaction. Although her filing for D is in a sense, her getting mad at me for asking to have my son more time.

Hello?? Here, ^^^you are already negatively mind reading about her motives for filing!

I doubt it was anger. It may have been fear. But in any case, it's what she said she'd do...and you were forced into the legal system b/c she wasn't sharing him in any way near what the law allows for. At least now she cannot accuse you of not taking action to see your son and to be a part of his life....stay on message with that..

Now the legal battle has begun, and I have to take the hight road, always.

Oh, and another thing I did to show I was not going to bully/criticize, etc... well, the next day of being served, I wrote an email, (beginning as usual with a compliment and ending with an encouragement, and nice in the middle), and at the end I stated "P.S. I received the papers, and that was sad she felt so hopeless about us". No reproaches, no criticism, no accusations. How about that?

It sounds as if it is a big improvement --but I get the feeling you did it for a reaction from her, which is NOT detached of you and if you have any expectations of her, or want a certain reaciton, it will often crush you when you don't get one.

Try to recall my suggestion that you keep the legal matters separate from your fathering efforts...and

don't mention the legal matters at all.

Let her associate the ugly part of this with the lawyers you pay money to...and the time spent with your son interacting with him as his dad, as a totally separate issue.

IF SHE brings up the issue of legal costs you can agree but say you didn't see another way "given how she seems to feel about you having more time with him"...and change the topic. Do NOT await a response.


To show generosity and less self-centredness, I gave her back in July a check of big amount, to "help with the expenses". At first she refused to cash it, but a month or two after, she said she was entitled to this, that, and she would cash the check. To which I replied that no need to ask, if she wanted all my salary was hers. I mean business with generosity.

well, that's a nice gesture. But It's money...and she benefitted by not filing yet...and she probably saw it as a bribe, but then felt entitled to it...

BUT let your L help you with choices like that next time....okay?

Let me ask you this, what do you believe her love languages are?

I suggest to all couples that they read "The Five Love Languages" and in your case I get the feeling you and your wife do not speak the same language of giving AND receiving love...

it's well worth a read and then you can share what you think.


And maybe she goes to church somewhere else, but I don't think so.


None of your business IF she goes, let alone to assume she does not and then assign a reason for her not going. Don't even go there. Not your place to judge or criticize her. You are her h, not her superior or God or her priest...

And no, I haven't been exactly a model of spiritual leadership, no I haven't been the husband I should have been.

Since the Bomb in June, in words, in thoughts and in acts I made steps towards her, towards restoration, without receiving any in return, and I didn't grow weary, I kept on giving, love attention, kindness and patience.

I don't know what you mean by this^^^ other than writing a check to her. You said she is better around you too, so I guess you DID get something in return. But as for your kindness and love and attention (when? The ONE day a week you see them?)

Honestly, this is the first post in which you have not sounded furious and indignant about her leaving.

Can you share why YOU believe she left?

Can you tell us WHAT SHE SAID were the reasons and please, please you must be as specific as possible so we can advise accordingly.



We reached this point now, and I'm at loss of what should be my next steps. Really am.

Even if before when we were in France, I showed myself distant, selfish and perhaps even neglected her. Even if I am responsible for losing that "emotional connection", is it a reason to DIVORCE?

well, they are reasons to her. Don't pooh pooh her reasons. They sounded valid to me by YOUR description of what you thought HER flaws were.
Did you really take in what I said?

BRUCE, to many women who become mothers, a neglectful h at that time in their life, in a country NOT of HER origin, is a recipe for her loneliness and depression and to many women it's unforgivable to have been hurt by their hs at such a vulnerable time. You complained that you didn't get enough attention and you said "Something was wrong with her" for that...

I think she had reasons for leaving a lot of women would relate to. Too bad YOU did not suggest counselling while you were in France...eh?

Instead of dismissing her reasons, which gets you nowhere,
Study them, learn about why she felt so bad and so hurt by you, that she'd want to leave the father of her only child...uproot him to return across the ocean and never see you again,

figure out your role and stop defending it and or minimizing her reasons or you'll get stuck and stay stuck.


I mean without even trying to go to counsellor, or anything? Is it a good reason to screw up our son's life and mine? Those are rhetorical questions of course, and it just to emphasize the hard place I'm in, so you guys don't think I just have to make a couple of 180 and everything's going to be alright...

Did YOU ever arrange mc in France? Did you seek out pastoral counselling? I mean, what did you do to save the marriage when it was crumbling around her?

You'll say "I didn't know how bad it was" so your job now is to ask her how bad it was and to STFU and listen to her when she tells you. Tell her you really want to know...and I hope that will be true.



Thank you for reading, and perhaps responding, be assured of my reading several times each post, as I try to implement these precious advice in my situation. Bonsoir.

Bonsoir mon ami