WAS vs. LBS

[Soul.Searching]

Okay, CV I hope you don't mind me responding here? I was going to copy it over to my thread but maybe it might help you, too?

Well H had been lying a lot and I tried and tried to explain to him how much it hurt and how I find it hard to trust him. He would lie about the pettiest things. I'll give you an example that was not to me but to his Dad.

One weekend morning, We had been up for a whole and H decided to go to the local shops to buy something.
FIL knocked on the door, I answered and told him H had just popped to the shops and he shouldn't be long.
FIL called H and as I could only hear FIL I'll post what I heard.
FIL: Hi, how are you?
What are you doing?
You just got out of bed?
So your at home?
That's pretty funny, concidering I am at your house, talking to W!
H then tried to back track but obviously didn't do a good job at it.

As I said he would lie about the pettiest of things and it was to everyone not just me.
At one stage he apparently did start telling the truth and lost it if I didn't believe him. He expected me to have trust no matter what. He said it my choice if I trust him or not.
After BD he said it was all my fault that he lied continually to me. If he had been away for work and we had hardly seem each other in weeks, I would have liked him to spend time with us, rather than at the pub (Which he does every night while his away.) yes it came down to my expectations. So if he thought I was going to be upset about him being at the pub, he would lie.

I didn't lie to him, even if I knew, he would be angry about something.
So when I comes down to it, I take NO responsibility for any of his lies, ever.
At the same time, I can see that SOME of his lie, were a result of how he thought I would react to the truth.

So basically while it comes down to him, I can kind of see that my actions could have led him to feel the need to lie.

The fact is though, that he has always lied, not just to me but to everyone. He also lies about things that I really don't know why anyone would lie about.

He actually used to use me as an escape goat to his friends.
There was a bunch of times where I heard him on the phone to friends.
He would say something along the lines of " No, I can't, W has a fit when I mentioned it." Or "W won't let me lend that out and it's hers."
I would ask him why he said that and he would say because I didn't want to go or because I didn't want to lend it out. I'd ask why he didn't just tell them and he would always say he didn't know.

He can't say I made him lie to me, when he lied to everyone. I do see how I could have used different actions in a few areas, that may have made him less likely to lie about certain things but ultimately he lie to everyone about a lot of things.


I know I am not perfect and I would say that I tried just about everything to try to get him to see my POV, to try to have a better relationship. I tried so many things that I just did not know what else to try! I tried so many things except DB!
Who knew? Not me that's for sure! If only I found this site sooner!
I don't know that it would have worked with the lying but it could of definitely help on other ways.
I'm glad I found it now though because it is helping me. If I can teach my kids too, maybe I can help save them from going down the same road.

[AJM]

SS, just a guess, but it sounds more like he IS hiding something and that he is reacting/playing out something from his past. What he is hiding is anyone's guess. Mental issues?

I get what you're saying and I'm not discounting it. Really. Not discounting CV's perspective either. Regardless how things work out in your respective situations, I'm trying to point out how our actions influence others. I am in no way saying that's the cause, but it can have impact. In some situations more than others.

In some cases, there is nothing you can do about it. I get that. In your case, he walked away. There is not much more you can do about that except be the best you, you can be. From the sounds of it, it's more about him.

But in each of our cases, there is something to learn about us and how we react and how we are perceived. We don't always know how we are seen even if in some cases the others lens is skewed. In those cases, we could be perfect (not really perfect, but not what they say either) and it's not our actions that cause theirs per se. They are playing other tapes, so to speak.

Thanks for sharing and posting.

Peace,
AJ

[Soul.Searching]

Thanks AJ,
I think there is definitely mental issues and yes, he did have a very traumatic childhood. His patents D when he was around S age.
I do see things I could have done differently. I do see my part in this. I'm not going to go right in to it on CVs thread. Basically though it seems the whole relationship was one sided. It was all about him.
I'm actually still a little confused on the parts I played.
For example. Going back a few years now I used to get frustrated when he used to go away on holiday with his friends, every two months.
At that point we were not going on family holidays.
He thinks every two months is not unreasonable.
There was no money for family holidays or for me to have a few days away but yet he was going every two months.
I know know I could have handled it better but I did try to explain how I felt. It just didn't sink in to him. I still don't know that I was unreasonable about it?

I loved my H very much, I still do but I don't like him anymore.
We did have great times together. Had we not have had those great times, I could quite easily have seen myself in CVs shoes.

I mean DB may have helped, that something I may never know.
I guess I just know the feeling of a one sided relationship and it's not very nice.
We have HEAPS of common interests, so we did still do a lot together at times but CV hasent really got that. So it would feel even more one sided to her.

I can see CVs frustrations and yes I can see how perspective could help in something's but i don't know that it can help with everything as a whole.

I can see this thread going back and forth like a yoyo. I see points from both sides. I Think the confusion lies in exactly what perspectives to change.

I get the no expectations but at the same time, a relationship should go both ways. Would you just accept that your S wants you to do everything for her and do nothing for you?

I am curious though, CV, if you have read and practiced DB?

I didn't have many expectations from my H and that is probably why I thought our R was okay.
I expected honesty. I never got it and now he blames me for that.
I expected him to put the children and I as a priory over friends. He never did that.
I expected him to want to spend time with us as a family. Sometime he did, sometimes he didn't.
I expected him to help me save money instead of spending it all on beer and boys toys. He wouldn't.
Honestly, that's all I can think of that I expected of him and they are the reasons why he left. Because of those expectations.

I took care of the kids, the house, the BIG backyard, plus I worked part time.
I can see how I could have handled things better but I don't know that my expectations were unreasonable.
Should I really not expect anything at all In a partner?

[Crazyville]

Great posts, SS! Don't hesitate to post here. So much of our sitch's are alike, it's nice to have someone else's words expressing my thoughts.

AJ, I would agree with what SS said, that being more specific would help. Not in the high-level zen lingo that you and KD speak. I've had some questions that I thought were very specific but couldn't tie down a response to.

SS, I have certainly read DB, but because I'm technically sort of the WAS, it's hard to apply it. I still have my H. He hasn't gone anywhere (at this point.) I don't have a list of complaints from him that I could do 180's on. He would be perfectly happy to step right back into what we used to have. I refuse. It's like you said -- it's always been all about "him." There was no "us." I'm just not interested in that life anymore. The perspective I changed is something I intend to keep.

Should I really not expect anything at all In a partner?

Excellent question! When you feel like you're not getting anything out of it, and you can itemize your day/week/year, how do you change your "perspective" to make that okay?

[~ kd ~]

CV, there is a lot of back story to your email to your H and I understand your frustration and from where I sit, it comes through very clear in your email.

I would say that your H affirms your frustration in his email and further elaborates on his own frustration.

So I can only indicate that you and your H are very clear regarding the issues at hand.

I was going to suggest last night when I last posted, and decided to leave it out, that your H is not likely to wait the six years. As per his email, he affirmed my thoughts.

CV, while you may think you are the WAS, I don't think you have the luxury of six years. I have a feeling that within a year or two (or maybe less), your H is very likely to leave the M, for real.

CV, do you feel that your H's email is an idle threat? To me, it sounds like someone who has been putting serious thought into a more immediate dissolution of a M than I think you realize.

[Crazyville]

No, I don't think it's an idle threat. We've both put a lot of thought and discussion into it. However, whenever I try to get him to put some work into heading that way (like a separation agreement), even discussing the pros and cons of D, he refuses.

What do you suggest, KD? And I don't want something high-level that I can't apply.

I cooked and cleaned all day Wednesday so that we could host his children. I just spent 3 days visiting his family with him out of town because it's what he wanted. I was pleasant and engaging with them all. Last time I jumped in bed with him, I got accused of going too fast, so that's not in my immediate agenda.

So what then?

[Crazyville]

Just to clarify ^^^, I was told I went too fast by people here, not by H. He was fine with it.

[~ kd ~]

I am pretty sure I was not one of the people that said you jumped into bed too fast with him. It's always about context and what YOU want. None of us are you or your H. What YOU want and what your H wants is what matters and what you should be acting on.

CV, can you tell me if there is anything that you have done in the past, that you felt worked for you and appeared to have a positive affect with your H and his actions, behaviours, language?

[Crazyville]

No, KD, I honestly can't think of a thing. I'm a pretty creative person, so if there was ever even a spark of something that worked, I would have milked it every which way from Sunday.

[~ kd ~]

OK, would you or would you not then agree that what you have done, so far, does not work?

If that is the case, then what ELSE could you do? Obviously, this would require you figuring out what has NOT worked, so that you do not duplicate what has not worked.

Could you list the things that you HAVE tried?

Could you list some things you MIGHT try, that is different than the above?

Could you list some things that worked in the past? I mean, before you did not like your H?