Wow AS I'm so happy for you. You have spent your time productively, healing and growing. So, whats the secret???
Man I smell an infomercial coming up lol.
Haha! Well I do have this special drink available only through my web site for a small fee
You know, I've really been thinking of how I ended up here and I would have to give credit first to DB'ing, and second to the Married Man Sex Life Primer. DB'ing gave me hope for my M when I didn't have it anywhere else. And even though in the end my M may not be saved, I needed that hope in the beginning to help me survive. The belief that my M would be saved is what got me through the roughest parts. The MMSLP helped open my eyes to the fact that my W is NOT the only woman in the world for me, and if it doesn't work out with W then there are plenty of other fish in the sea. And DR and MMSLP both taught me that working on myself would help me rebuild the self esteem I lost at BD and they taught me how to find myself after having sacrificed much of myself in 2 decades of marriage.
Originally Posted By: rubytuesday
I agree AS... nicely done these past posts. I would love to be at the point you are, but I have a long long way to go.
What is the best piece of advice you have, do you think, that got you where you are?
Thanks! The best piece of advice I can offer is that there is not one single golden bullet in this. DB'ing really does have to be an all-inclusive, holistic process. It's very important to hold hope in your heart regardless of how ugly things look. Initially the hope is that you can reconcile, but eventually the hope becomes that you WILL have a better life with or without your spouse. Once you realize that it really is true that you will have a better life, detaching gets a lot easier.
And it's really important to work on ourselves. For me the weight-lifting was a major part of this. Actually seeing physical change/ improvement just made me feel so much better about myself, and it made me want to dress better and groom better. And it drove me to keep improving myself. Honestly I don't think W cares if I'm a big hunk of muscle with six pack abs or a soft couch potato, but I needed it for me.
Well I have an interesting development in my sitch, I'll type it up in the next post.
eventually the hope becomes that you WILL have a better life with or without your spouse.
I agree with this completely AS. I am feeling this more and more personally and its...liberating.
Glad to hear you are doing well and look forward to the interesting update in your sitch!
((((( )))))
TPS Me: 44 H: 42 M14 T17 S10 D7 10/10 H moves out after death of his father-same month 21/04/12 H is 'DONE' 04/05/12 OW/PA confirmed (rumors from 2010) July '14 H ends affair May '15 H moves back home
D16 has been acting depressed lately, so last night I asked her why she is upset. She said she doesn’t want W and me talking to her about our sitch, that it upsets her. I told her the only reason I talk to her is because when I went through this with my parents they never told me anything and that was the most frustrating thing for me- not knowing what was going on. So I’ve tried to keep her informed as best I can.
I then asked her what W has been telling her. She said she asked W why she’s putting them (the kids) through all this misery, why she’s so adamant about leaving me. W said she doesn’t know why exactly, but that she feels like I haven’t changed (more on this below). D16 asked her if I haven’t changed, if I’m the same person she married and I’m still that person, then why did she marry me in the first place and stay married to me for 20 years? W didn’t have an answer.
So anyway, I told D16 that I would not talk to her anymore about it. I told her that I wanted her to know that there was no hope of reconciliation and I didn’t want her to think that there was, and that W and I would sit down after the first of the year and work out the details on the divorce. She actually seemed relieved to know that there was closure on the way.
So after that I went to the back patio and called W, told her how upset D16 was and that she said was upset about us talking to her about our R. I told W that I was just trying to keep her informed since my parents didn’t do that for me and I thought it would be helpful, but I was going to stop since it was upsetting her. I suggested W stop talking to her about it as well.
W told me that it was actually D16 that was initiating the conversations with her. D16 woke her up at 4 am telling her she wanted to talk about it because she couldn’t sleep. That’s when she asked her the questions about why she didn’t love my anymore. W admitted she was half asleep and didn't really remember much of the convo. So brace yourselves, because I dropped the D bomb on my W. I told her that I told D16 we would sit down after the first of the year and work out the D, and I also told her how I had explained to D16 that the M was over and there was no hope of reconciliation. W said “you told her that tonight?” I said “yes”. Then I told her “This is very hard on the kids, anyone who tells you that kids will be fine in something like this doesn’t know what they’re talking about. I went through it and you know I’ve always said it was the worst thing that ever happened to me in my life right up until this. It will affect them deeply, and affect them for life. But what is important is that you are happy, and that we continue to support the kids as best we can and help them through this. You are happy, right?”
At that point W started crying (and she continued to do so through the rest of the conversation). I asked her what was wrong and she said she doesn’t know. I let that hang in the air for a while and then asked her to tell me what she was feeling. She said “I don’t know, I’m really confused. I just don’t know what I want.” I told her I understood why she felt that way. I asked her if moving out had helped her any, if she was less confused now then she was when she moved out. She said “I’m just as confused now as I was before I moved out.” She asked me how I was, but I turned it back to her to try and get her to express her emotions more. We talked more about her confusion, and about how she’s not finding the happiness she thought she would when she moved out. I borrowed some lines from “The Happiness Trap” and told her the pursuit of happiness is Hollywood fiction, that happiness is just one of many emotions we experience and none of us should ever expect to be happy all day every day. We should instead strive for contentment, we can be content regardless of what emotions we’re experiencing. However, I did say that she should strive to find things that would make her more happy and that I felt that while we always spent lots of family time together with the kids that she didn't do enough for herself and that was part of the problem. I told her that she should seek and find things that make her happy, whether that be painting, sculpting, dancing, whatever. That she needed to get out and try different things to see what appeals to her.
I asked her if she wanted me to come over to talk some more and she said “No, not the way I am right now.” She again asked me how I was so I answered this time. I told her that things were rough for me at first, but now I am happy, content and doing really well. I told her that I’ve even adapted to not having the kids every other week and actually enjoy the time to do things for me. I told her that right now I am still interested in reconciling, but I will be great whether we reconcile or not, I am OK with whatever happens. I told her that I had really taken everything she said to heart and worked hard on making myself better. She said “I know you have”. I said “at first I did it for you, but then I realized I needed to do it to make myself a better person, so I started doing it for myself.” I then said (thinking about D16’s comment above) “Is there anything else you think I should change, I’m not asking for you but for me, when you look at me is there anything you think ‘I sure wish he’d change that about himself’” and she said “no, nothing”.
I then said “What do you want me to do, do you want me to give you more time, to wait for you?” and she responded “I can’t tell you what to do”. I said “No, but you can tell me what you WANT me to do and I can decide whether to honor it or not.”
I asked her if she was sure she didn’t want me to come over (it was pretty late, 10:00, and a school night) and she said “no, but I want to talk more later this week.” I told her “OK, I love you.” Matter of fact. Not soft and mushy. That’s the first time I’ve told her ILY in months. She half-mumbled and half-cried something back that may have been “I love you too” or “stick a cattle prod up your butt”, I have no idea. So rather than look stupid and say “could you repeat that” (because if it was the cattle prod thing, I wouldn’t want to hear it twice) I just said “bye” and hung up.
Often people talk about how calm and collected their WAS is and they don’t understand how they can be that way. I always respond “they may look that way on the outside, but inside they’re confused and in turmoil”. So here is proof from my own sitch. It’s been nearly 6 months since BD and my W has acted calm, cool and collected the entire time. She’s appeared confident in her decision to leave me. Yet now she admits that not only is she confused, but she is just as confused now as ever. Leaving did not bring her the clarity she expected.
Why is she confused? Well it’s a bit of mind-reading maybe, but I think it’s because of DB’ing. She left a version of me that doesn’t exist anymore. She sees this person I’ve become and realizes we could have a great R, but at the same time she’s afraid if she comes back then things will go back to what they were before. She still needs more time and space to sort it out.
Whew, that was a long post. I should have warned everyone to get some popcorn and a comfy seat first
Busting, thanks, and yes, "liberating" is the perfect word!! It's a great feeling of freedom, that our life isn't really ending, but rather one chapter is closing and another is beginning. I think in my case I was so used to the "status quo" from 20 years of marriage that my biggest fear after BD was the fear of change. But after W moved out I quickly discovered that while this change brought additional responsibilities, it also brought new opportunities. Through the additional responsibilities I've learned that I am much more independent than I thought I could be, and through the opportunities I've learned that I'm not done living life and I'm not content to let it run on autopilot anymore
I completely relate to your feelings about D and having it be the worst thing that has happened up until BD in our own M's. My parents divorce was dark, messy and angry. We never spoke about it and I carry it with me up until now.
"I've learned that I'm not done living life and I'm not content to let it run on autopilot anymore"
Cheers to that.
AS you are truly an inspiration to us all here who have had the honor of reading your words and learning from your journey.
Busting.
TPS Me: 44 H: 42 M14 T17 S10 D7 10/10 H moves out after death of his father-same month 21/04/12 H is 'DONE' 04/05/12 OW/PA confirmed (rumors from 2010) July '14 H ends affair May '15 H moves back home
Busting, thanks so much My parents' divorce was also brutal. I was actually brought in to testify, they coached me to say terrible things about my mother in an attempt to make her appear unfit. I was a young teen and still remember sitting outside that courtroom with my stomach feeling like I had swallowed a thousand needles. It was awful. And the actual testifying was worse.
So I have yet another development, just received this email from my brother:
Quote:
I found out some information while at Mom's. I heard that (W) is having second thoughts about leaving and is really torn about it. She still doesn't think she's "in love" with you any more from what I understand but I think she's having a lot of conflict because of the effect it's all having on the kids. She says she thinks you've changed, but when she found out you weren't going in for Thanksgiving or Christmas her first thought was "he hasn't changed because he's not thinking about the kids, only about himself". She says she always puts the kids first and she doesn't think you care as much about the kids. This is all second hand so I haven't talked to (W), but when I talked to her a few months ago the same theme came up about the kids. I wanted to let you know.
When I talked to W last night I did explain to her that while I enjoyed us going together to kid functions, I felt like it was preventing her from getting enough space from me and that she really needs that space so she can determine if I'm the reason for her unhappiness or not. I told her that if she figures out it's not me that she needs to figure out how to address it. So hopefully she understands the space isn't about me not doing stuff with the kids, it's about giving her space.
And while I do still want to reconcile, it's got to be for the right reasons. I'm not going to just throw the door open to her and invite her back home because she thinks it's best for the kids. The whole reason we're where we are is because we put the kids before our own R. That's got to change.
She sees this person I’ve become and realizes we could have a great R, but at the same time she’s afraid if she comes back then things will go back to what they were before. She still needs more time and space to sort it out.
My first thought here was "that sounds like my W." She's actually said as much to me and I believe it's, in part, why she refuses to commit. So it sounds pretty reasonable to me, mind-reading or not.
Are you in complete detachment at this point? If W wanted to go out with you (without pressure), would you be open to it? Or are you looking for the complete commitment? What's your next move?
Yeah! I love reading those post AS...especially the part about the cattle prod! Also I liked how you touched on happiness...I recently watched the new documentary called Happy...It made me realize that each of us has to constantly work on this and it is up to us as individuals to be happy...not someone else to make us happy.... On another note I did do the Thanksgiving thing mainly for the kids and I did not want my W to use it as a club saying that I was being spiteful...even though she still managed to say I was ruining her plans by coming over at a certain time and leaving at a certain time....but I am taking a hint from you AS ...I kept things polite and formal with her and treated her as if she was a neighbor from across the street....After the girls and I sent a letter thanking IL's for having us over....
My point is....maybe you should invite W over for Christmas for the sake of the kids..
