He's Just Not That Into You

[mamabird]

This isn't about you telling him what is right or wrong, it's about asking him what he thinks and continually peeling the onion to find out what he thinks, and maybe, get him to challenge his own beliefs.

Agree - this is the place we need to get to. Since our MC doesn't seem very proactive, I'm going to have to take this on. One of my closest friends is a therapist and she's told me what is *supposed* to be happening in MC. I think H's IC is probably also very passive, which is why she recommended this MC. H does not like to be challenged, so it all makes a lot of sense, but I know it's not what we need in order to move forward.

Anyway - trying not to dwell on any of this. Thanksgiving is my favorite holiday. I go all out with the china and silver and everything, and I cook up a storm. I've already made 2 pies, cranberry sauce, candied yams and am just about to brine the turkey. I am in a happy mood and intend to stay that way! Happy Thanksgiving all!!

[mamabird]

Thanksgiving went well. H helped a lot with the boys and cleaning up before and after dinner. I'll go as far as to say it was pleasant! He seemed to really appreciate all the work I did preparing the dinner and there was no tension. As I said, I go pretty big on this holiday so it was nice to at least have that.

It was the first Thanksgiving in our new house, and the first one my little son can remember not having at my in-laws. Food turned out pretty great so I was pleased. H was very pleasant with my mother and her boyfriend as well - all in all, a good day.

Today we are going to in-laws so we'll see how that goes...

[hopefulinga]

I'm glad Thanksgiving at your house was nice, and am hoping today went as well. You are at least still doing things as a family, which is a good sign to me.

[mamabird]

Thanks Hopeful. Things do seem to be going smoothly right now.

We went up to the in-laws today. I haven't been there in almost 6 months. Have not seen H's stepmother, or his half siblings since then either. I was expecting a chilly reception but you know what, it was fine, just like nothing had ever happened. We all had a pretty good time. They all like to sit around watching sports so I made the most of my time by doing some early xmas shopping on my phone.

I'm honestly surprised at how well things have been going. We get in MC and he's very glum but a day or two passes and it's ok. Weird. H nodded off early and was snoring and I let him know. He joked with me - "what does it sound like?" (answer: combo between a motorcycle, lawnmower and coffeemaker "Am I the world's biggest pain in the a$$ or just in the top 5?" (answer: top 5, but this is one of those nights I'm glad to be in the other room) "If I put this hood over my head will it muffle the sound?" (answer: if only!)

It's a good sign for him to be kidding around like that. It certainly is nicer than what I was getting for a long time - a moody, broody jerk. I guess I just have to accept the limbo and keep putting one foot in front of the other. My dad told me he gave H a pep talk and told him to do the same - just take it one day at a time.

I did mention that I didn't think our MC was really right for us because he's too passive, and left it there.

[Breakdown]

I did mention that I didn't think our MC was really right for us because he's too passive, and left it there.

You planted the seed....so maybe you need to do the homework on finding a good, solution based, pro-marriage C now so if H asks for your suggestions, you have a couple ready to go!

Glad your holiday went well!

[Wendylon]

We get in MC and he's very glum but a day or two passes and it's ok. Weird.

Regretful, that's one of the reasons not to take what he says too seriously. I'm sure he feels low and resentful at times but that's not the whole story. You know it but don't try to get him to admit it. If he's anything like my H, your H gets attached to his stories and feels invalidated if they are questioned.

When H finally decided to stay put eight years ago, he kept saying he was only doing it for the kids' sakes and definitely not because of us--on the contrary. I remember my DB coach suggesting I let him say/believe it even though it nearly drove me crazy because I really didn't think that he was staying despite me. Of course, he was still resentful and bitter but I couldn't believe that he hated me as much as he claimed to. There was an element of pride in H maintaining his story. Somehow, it allowed him to feel that he wasn't giving in to pressure from me.

The joking sounds great. I think that weighs a lot more heavily in terms of how he's really feeling than what he says in MC. What he says may be way behind how he acts and he himself may not really know how he feels. Don't look to what he says to understand your sitch. I'm not saying that his gripes aren't important but they may be outdated and it may suit him to hang onto them for longer.

I'm so glad that the last few days have gone well. It's great that the time with his family was so easy.

[mamabird]

The joking sounds great. I think that weighs a lot more heavily in terms of how he's really feeling than what he says in MC. What he says may be way behind how he acts and he himself may not really know how he feels. Don't look to what he says to understand your sitch. I'm not saying that his gripes aren't important but they may be outdated and it may suit him to hang onto them for longer.

This is really helpful. Sometimes it's just hard to see the forest for the trees. I'm enjoying my time with him a lot more, but still at the end of the day I have that empty hollow feeling because he's still withholding, and then I have to go sleep on the stupid sofa bed which makes things worse. H knows I hate it, and actually he and the boys have been putting the bed away on the weekends, because they come in here to watch TV and then take over the whole place.

H's withholding is so second nature to him. I think about this a lot. It's not like he was ever super affectionate in the first place and I think it's always bothered me. I think this can be changed if he wants to work on that. He definitely is very attached to his "narrative" about what happened and why, which is why it's so hard for him to move forward. He can't see past his own story.

On a somewhat positive note, H did have a call this morning with his business partner to try to get his second business up and running. He admits that he has been too depressed and "out of sorts" to do anything on this business, so it's good news that he's finally ready to get back into that. Ironically, his business partner is also a psychiatrist and is the one who prescribes his ADs and most of that other sh!t that he takes.

We had another fine day today, more lighthearted banter and kidding around. Tomorrow we are going to a brunch with some other families, and Monday we have MC again. Honestly I'm dreading it. I hate our therapist and I feel like it's just a waste of $ right now. We go, I get reamed a new one every time, and the therapist just sits there. I don't know how much I am going to have to say at this next session. I think I am going to try to throw some of it back at the therapist. Also interesting to note is that in the second session, H changed his story completely from the first session. He definitely is still working out some confusion.

[greatwhitenorth]

What do you think will motivate him to make the changes you need to see?

[mamabird]

What do you think will motivate him to make the changes you need to see?

That seems to be the $64,000 question. Over the past few months, we've gone from nasty, to tolerant to now friendly, so that's a good trajectory. But we need to go from friendly to loving, which is the hardest jump.

The only thing I can think of at this point? I get frustrated enough to walk away, which snaps him into action. H does not want to lose his kids. I do think something big needs to happen - a jolt so to speak. I'm not wishing for a tragedy at this point obviously.

Of course the MC could do something besides sit there, which might help too.

[Wendylon]

Can you use your MC session to validate your H? In some ways, it doesn't matter whether or not the MC is any good for you to do that.

I didn't really use our MC sessions in the conventional way in that I wasn't relying on our therapist to help but I was making use of the time together to listen to H's stories, validate and give him WOA--which he's especially keen on having others witness.

When I was doing my best DBing (eight years ago), my main goal in our MC sessions was for H to feel good in my presence. I think H did enjoy them. I'd let him vent his frustrations and wouldn't argue with his distorted view of things.

By the way, it wasn't my idea. My DB coach helped me reframe the MC sessions to further our R. I didn't do the expected thing of venting my frustrations and making demands. I'd been pretty good at doing that all along in our R and that didn't get us anywhere good so the last thing I needed was to do it again in the presence of a therapist. I was dying to bring up some touchy topics such as finances or OW but my DB coach counselled me against it and it was some of the best advice I got from her. She kept suggesting that I do 180s in the sessions and not bring up all the stuff that H was expecting me to bring up.

I suspect that your H can make small changes over a period of time without a jolt. A jolt could work for you but it could also work against you. It's a lot higher risk.

I do think you could do with appearing more detached (though not cold). What if you started to act completely at peace about your bed sitch for example as opposed to making it clear that it's a drag?

It's actually helping me to be going over what helped last time in my sitch. I got good at DBing and eventually we went to Istanbul together which turned out to be a very romantic holiday. It took a while to get to that point though. (And sadly, after another while, I became complacent again, and came off the ADs, and things slipped..) I don't have it down pat but I do remember what worked and since our Hs are so similar it might be of use to you.

If your H feels comfortable with that MC then I wouldn't criticise them but let your H take centre stage and let him try out different stories. He'll tire of them eventually and move on once he's felt heard.

In my experience, the key is to keep DBing steadily and to be v. v. patient.