WAS vs. LBS

[AJM]

I suspect the problem is that I don't want to change my perspective. I don't want to be the W that looks the other way while her H is having an affair, though I'm sure there are many that do. I don't want to like parking lots instead of flowers. I've walked a long, hard road to get where I am, and I've whittled my concept of M down to the bare minimum of basic human courtesy and respect. I honestly don't care to change that. Not even for my M. I really do appreciate the time you've spent discussing it with me though.

Yes, CV that is a lot of it. You don't want to change your perspective. You. Want *something* else to magically work for you. (I know you don't see it that way; to an outsider that's how it comes across). As I pointed out before, you did change your perspective already. You will again at some point. Whether you do willingly and with forethought, or you do so due to other factors, you cannot keep the same perspective the rest of your life. Nobody does.

For the record, you are not looking the other way; your H is not having an affair; he is not living up to your ideal of what marriage *should* be. You are figuring out how to have a mature view of relationships and what that means to you. I can see that and recognize its importance. I don't think you've whittled your concept of M down as much as you think though; I think you'd like to think you did There are plenty of implied expectations that are in those thoughts. They come across in your posts.

I don't think you've really seen the long hard road yet - difficultly is a perspective

I do wish you the best of luck in your journeys. I wish your H the best as well.

Happy Thanksgiving.

AJ

[Crazyville]

Happy Thanksgiving to you, too, AJ!

[Soul.Searching]

Sorry for jumping in here but are you saying that CV needs to change her perspective on the big things? Eg lying,.. Not getting anything back etc

[RegretfulLA]

I know that I'm very frustrated in my own sitch because my H refuses to change his perspective. Well, that's not entirely true. We are not D and he has not filed like he threatened so many times. So he's changed his perspective in that regard. But I fear he'll never be able to see or appreciate my changes because he refuses to work on changing his perspective.

I agree w AJ here - I think perspective makes all the difference in the world. A hot shower feels great on a cold day, but horrible on a hot day.

Have a great Thanksgiving CV.

[Crazyville]

RegretfulLA, I agree with both you and AJ, (and KD as such,) perspective does makes all the difference. I always use the word "attitude" in my own life, but I think it's basically the same thing. It's very unfortunate that your H is not seeing your changes, as I'm sure you're working very hard on them. The fact is, there is something for him to see. He doesn't simply have to change how he looks at things, because things really are different. (At the same time, I still think your H carries a whole lot of responsibility in your sitch that he's managing to avoid owning, but that's a different post.)

So while we went all day yesterday not interacting much (his kids came over) and all day today not interacting much (we went to see my family) and I'm sure we won't interact much over the weekend (heading north to visit his family,) I just wonder what to do about the elephant in the room? It's very cold and distant. It bothers me, but I'm not allowed to bring it up to him because that pixxes him off. Meanwhile, he's at his computer right now watching videos on how to install his new speakers in his car. Of course he would tell me he desperately wants to improve our M.

What "perspective" am I missing?

[RegretfulLA]

Well I hope you enjoyed your family at least.

When I was having my dalliance with OM2, he would tell me that his W was very cold and distant, but when it all came crashing down, it turned out that he was "desperate" to fix things with her. I think the cold and distant thing can be a reaction to each other. He perceives you as cold and distant, so he acts cold and distant, so you perceive him as cold and distant, which makes you act cold and distant.... repeat... This happened in my own M too, for years.

One person has to be the one to break the pattern. I wouldn't recommend doing it the way I did, which was not to really address it and to put band aids on, making myself feel better but damaging the relationship at the same time.

One of you has to SAY SOMETHING from the heart. I know you're not feeling invested enough right now to do this. But if you said, "H, I don't like feeling cold and distant from you. I want us to talk," I am sure he would not only do it but he would feel grateful for you breaking the ice. The issue is, why should you be the one to break the ice when you've done all the work all along? I totally get it.

It's not fair, but I believe it's really going to fall on you to right the ship in this moment. Because he's too self-protective to take any risks with you.

[~ kd ~]

RLA, if there was a "+1" button on this site, I would click it on your post.

That, for me, is the epitome of DB and a general mantra everyone should have in their life. Unfortunately, people generally live with one of two thoughts: "What's the catch?" or "What's in it for me?"

When we look for outside valuation or cost, it is easy to understand why many people do little to make positive change in their lives. The focus is on a very narrow, personal value.

It is not always easy to see the value or how positive changes and actions of our own, positively influence things around us. Especially as these types of things often take long periods of time to show up in a noticeable way.

We don't have to consciously sit and ponder what action to take and how that MAY have a positive impact in our future.

If we simply change our own perspective and attitude and behave in positive ways, always... the value... WILL show up...

Great post, RLA!

[~ kd ~]

CV, to be clear, I want to point out that my post above regarding RLA's post, is not intended to be a judgement on you. It is very human for people to be focused on their own life context. To that end, especially when in stressful situations, that focus becomes even more "important" to us, as we seek self preservation, as though our very life depended on it.

As you continue your journey, CV, your continued focus on the value your H can (should?) provide to you will inevitably stall any intrinsic growth that may otherwise come to you.

Whether we are talking about your H, or talking about anyone who you may come in contact with (or ANYTHING you may come in contact with, for that matter), is it really important to weigh the pros and cons of what value you must get in order for you to continue to simply be the best person you can be, always?

Does someone ever NOT deserve your best? No matter how good or bad you may perceive them to be, why should that matter how you are, with them?

[RegretfulLA]

Does someone ever NOT deserve your best? No matter how good or bad you may perceive them to be, why should that matter how you are, with them?

Thanks for the props, Kaffe! I love what you've said above. It's so difficult to put our own biases aside and just do our best no matter what. The hard part comes when you try and try and try and try and you see no change. Usually, that doesn't happen with people. Usually, people respond to kindness and authenticity.

I think CV is frustrated because she's been trying and trying and trying and trying and is getting nothing back - or not getting enough back, I guess. She's reached the end of her rope. She doesn't see the point in trying anymore because it's not working. So the solution is - try something different or just walk away.

All we can do is live for us. We all know we can't control what our spouses do. So we do our best every day, and we do it for ourselves, not for anyone else. If our spouses choose to join us, fantastic. If not, then we have some choices to make.

[AJM]

RL, I think you're on to something
One thing I don't understand is the idea of being at the end of our rope when trying to get what we want. I don't understand this:

She doesn't see the point in trying anymore because it's not working. So the solution is - try something different or just walk away.

Not seeing the point is something I have difficulty understanding. Walking away is something I've never done, so don't understand that either. I've been tempted to do both over the years to be sure.

I suspect what one finds is that they can't "walk away" especially when kids are involved. There will always be interaction and it won't be what one thinks it will be like. One can give up without walking away, but I fail to see the point of that either. That's self-imposed purgatory in my view.

To be certain, CV is looking for change, whatever that means to her exactly. I get that. I understand that perfectly.

I think another way to look at it is that if you try and try and try and see no change in somebody else you're either a) not done trying for the change you want to see or b) not being the change you want to see. It's possible that you haven't been looking in the right places, but that's more than an either statement allows Either way, you're longing for change and not getting it, but possibly going about it the wrong way.

Once you walk away, you won't see change in somebody else. Game's over at that point.

We do have a responsibility to live for us. Part of that is our integrity in living our life. My belief is that we if we make a promise, we keep it. That's for me, because I like that about me. I like knowing that I don't walk away from my promises and my integrity is intact. But that's living for me the way I want to live. I don't control others and never have nor wanted to. I accept them as they are and set my boundaries for how I'll interact with others.

Many times I've been surprised by others because of this. When I've written off somebody for their actions, they have surprised me with their changes. Looking back, much of what I saw was a point in time (sometimes many points in time) where they acted a certain way. But they grew and my perspective changed. Or both

As your tag suggests, "Love means not giving up on someone even if they've given up on you." I can't imagine a world where I give up on somebody and believe me, that has been a difficult road to walk...But I wouldn't trade it for the world

Peace,
AJ