Limbo Land

[MrBond]

I don't think you did anything against DB. You tried something different and it got a positive response.

[jzoom]

That's reasurring. She told me that she knows that she'd be screwed without me. I don't think she's really happy about touching again...hugs...she told me this morning not to kiss her....but I needed something b/c it felt like she throws me a bone and goes "I'm trying" but I still just felt like I was being used.

She's been adamant that being physical doesn't help but I have read other books that stress the importance of touch for bonding so maybe it feels forced right now but I'm hoping it will turn things around. Just like telling her we need to go on dates...I do know that in DR there's one part where it says even if you don't want to be around each other b/c you "fight all the time" you need to force yourselves to spend time together to reconnect. She told me that she sometimes wants to avoid me b/c we "fight all the time" and I asked her if she ever thought about the fact that we might "fight all the time" b/c of how little time we were spending together?

So we spent some nice time together yesterday and she agreed to go see the new movie "Lincoln" with me, just need to find a babysitter.

[MrBond]

" She told me that she knows that she'd be screwed without me. "

Which is a lousy attitude. It makes it sound like she's just using you for your services rather than your companionship.

The hard part is that you really won't get anything back because it seems "forced" upon her from her POV. I get it that YOU need physical touch, but what about her needs? Did you ever discuss that or even figure out in what way she's been "trying"?

She's guilting you IMHO. She says she tries, but doesn't say what she's doing and meanwhile she keeps asking you for things. No woman likes being with a guy they can control.

[jzoom]

Her trying was not yesterday, but the Sun before taking me to a family get together and then yesterday even though we were fighting that she was going to spend time with me.

We got into a fight in the car as we were going to the store yesterday. I turned around and told her she could go alone. Then I pulled over and we both calmed down some. We went to the store and had a good time and then had a really nice lunch.

After that she had already planned to go see the new Twighlight movie with her sister-in-law (part of what sparked the fighting in the car) and that's when my friend told me that she didn't want to make a committment for fear of me kicking her out.

So I called GF and brought this up. We get into it again and she's starting with "we were having a good time" but I told her it seems like it's always what her defintion of "good time" is. She told me that the guy who was yelling at her in the car is not somebody she wants to be with. The guy in the store and at lunch is the somebody she wants to be with. If I can be consistent (yes yes yes, as you guys have told me time and again) then she'll be able to commit. I told her that I need direction, that her ambiguity is causing my erratic behavior.

Right or wrong it's a fact. With me getting a little physical intimacy I'm going to be calmer with her and be the guy she's looking for.

Also, today her phone bill was due. I didn't have to pay it and she had no expectation of me paying it. When I told her I was going to she said she hates asking me for money. I told her that this is the difference between us being together or not and went and took my shower.

[AnotherStander]

We got into a fight in the car as we were going to the store yesterday. I turned around and told her she could go alone.

Do you have these anger issues with others too or is it just with her?

So I called GF and brought this up. We get into it again and she's starting with "we were having a good time"

One of the pillars of DB'ing is not to ever initiate R talks. You're supposed to act "as if" everything is fine. Show her nothing but PMA. Y'all were getting along great, then you bring up the R talks and it all falls apart. That pattern keeps repeating over and over again. You're applying too much pressure to her.

I told her that I need direction, that her ambiguity is causing my erratic behavior.

And your pressure is causing her ambiguity. You don't seem to understand that the problem isn't HER, it's YOU!!

With me getting a little physical intimacy I'm going to be calmer with her and be the guy she's looking for.

And pushing her into something she doesn't want is... (wait for it)... PRESSURE! You can't force her into intimacy, you have to detach, give her space and wait for HER to decide she's ready.

[jzoom]

Anger issues aren't just with her. I've worked from a book called "Anger Busting 101" but the "shut up and walk away" tends to piss her off more...but it's also the only effective way I've found for myself to calm down and be rational rather than explode and be rash.

As for the pressure...I'm not going to make excuses, you're right, it's there.

[MrBond]

"but it's also the only effective way I've found for myself to calm down and be rational rather than explode and be rash."

Have you told her that? If not, then you should explain to her that it's how you process things and it's not because of her. So she needs to understand that in those cases that you walk away.

[jzoom]

I half-a**ed told her before. Last night there was a little spat again...getting old...and I wouldn't talk to her at all in the car on the way home from work or at home. I finally talked to her and by this time she was pissed and yelling at me.

After we went to bed I sent her a text (since she doesn't sleep in the same bed as me anymore) that said, "I stop talking and I walk away so that I can calm down instead of exploding, yelling, and saying things I don't mean." She just said ok to that.

[MrBond]

Any updates?

[jzoom]

Things got better for a little while and then went downhill again. Most of it is due to me wanting a label of "in a relationship" "boyfriend/girlfriend" and she was more just "we aren't together" but we are working on things to see if we can get back together.

Most troubling thing is that I went snooping in an old phone of hers and found her sexting back in July with the father of the baby. We got into it big time and she finally told me they had kissed and she had thought about going back to him.

It's tricky b/c it is old and after that she was still with me, was my g/f, was trying, and things hadn't gotten really bad for another 2 months.

So she told me this morning that she is absolutely done and will begin looking for a place so she can move out in the new year, hopefully by the end of Jan. She just wanted to finish xmas stuff today and for me to "not ruin Christmas for the kids" by putting a smile on my face and I can go back to being miserable after they head out to family (I'm not invited and I have to work anyway).

Later in the day I texted and me pushing is when she told me about the kiss and her thinking about leaving me in July. The pushing, the non-stop digging, was some of her biggest complaints this morning. Needless to say she was getting pissed and I kept pushing. I actually acted a bit a**holey and was sexting her and such. I asked her to give it one last chance and have a good kiss with me tonight and see how she feels. She kept saying no and for me to stop. I wouldn't and she called me to tell me to stop b/c she had stuff to get done.

Hours later I sent one last text that was nicer. I said that if all I wanted her for was sex and didn't care about her and the kids I would've went through with the eviction. I told her that I still believe that there's something between us. She had asked why a kiss matter and I explained that it communicates feelings in a special way, that it's a start to something and said that for Christmas, for a new start, for us to work past all of these problems and have a truly strong relationship that we should kiss tonight.

No response to that text. I can hope, pray, and look for a Christmas miracle but I realize that most likely there will be no kiss tonight.

Here's the worst part. I bought a promise/engagement ring for her for her Christmas gift. It's wrapped up and under the tree already. I don't have anymore gifts for her b/c the focus was on the kids. All I can figure right now is to let her open it as planned and see what happens.