Back to Square One?

[mamabird]

I don't think IC helps H other than making him feeling vindicated about his hostility towards me. I think he paints such a biased and horrible picture of me that he then has them on side.

I think that's definitely true for me too.

Regretful, I found the 'coffee beans' just a few minutes ago in H's study. Not surprisingly, it's an empty tub of ice-cream from our corner shop that he's wedged under his desk.

That's a good one. Reminds me of my 9-y-o wedging packets of gum behind his pillow. I have never seen my H go to those kinds of extremes, but to be fair, we do keep a lot of candy in the house because i have a sweet tooth too, so there's always something around. As Melissa said, maybe you should start doing that (or having something in the house) so he doesn't have to sneak.

As you know, my H also does a little bit of secretive eating but it's usually fast food. Once in a while, it's ok. As you probably know, in this country we have an epidemic of diabetes and other issues related to weight and unhealthy eating. H's mother is quite overweight and his father has 8 stents in his chest because of heart disease. Plus H already suffers from gout, which is diet related. Sometimes I try to take this "it's for your own health" tactic with him, but I'm afraid that nagging only makes it worse.

Here's something interesting. H goes to a parenting group and the facilitator told him yesterday to let S just have a packet of gum (he's been sneaking). Once he has the control he should stop sneaking it and should learn to control his impulses around that. Perhaps this is true for your H too. I certainly remember being a teenager and babysitting and raiding pantries and freezers because we never had junk food in our house.

If you don't want to go to the moustache party, then you shouldn't, as long as that's ok with both of you.

[tori2012]

Wendylon, I agree that the DB coaches are great and much better than any IC or MC.

His reaction about the party is bc of the mental image he has of you. If you feel strong enough to do it, give it a try and just relax and have fun even if you don't drink. Your H will see he can have fun with you at a party. Try to change the old behaviors/habits. My H and I don't drink either, and realized it doesn't really matter. You can still have a good time. I just went to a beer tasting party and didn't touch the beer :-)

[ForeverYoung]

Regretful, I found the 'coffee beans' just a few minutes ago in H's study. Not surprisingly, it's an empty tub of ice-cream from our corner shop that he's wedged under his desk.

That's a good one. Reminds me of my 9-y-o wedging packets of gum behind his pillow. I have never seen my H go to those kinds of extremes, but to be fair, we do keep a lot of candy in the house because i have a sweet tooth too, so there's always something around. As Melissa said, maybe you should start doing that (or having something in the house) so he doesn't have to sneak.

Sometimes I try to take this "it's for your own health" tactic with him, but I'm afraid that nagging only makes it worse.

Here's something interesting. H goes to a parenting group and the facilitator told him yesterday to let S just have a packet of gum (he's been sneaking). Once he has the control he should stop sneaking it and should learn to control his impulses around that. Perhaps this is true for your H too.

I agree that nagging will only make his sneaking worse... cutting back has to be his choice.

I like the idea of stocking up on ice cream at home. The real stuff so he can't turn his nose up at it, and he no longer has to sneak to get it. And I mean REALLY stock up. Kinda like when you catch your kid smoking and make 'em smoke a whole pack 'till they're sick of it.

Don't monitor or mention anything about his intake, cut him loose! Do this and he WILL at least stop the sneaking.

The lower fat versions can be worked in once things are under control if you find ones he likes.

More importantly, don't forget that your first goal here is to improve the marriage. Helping him correct his eating disorders can always come later.

Is any particular action bringing you closer together or driving you apart?

[Wendylon]

You guys are great. Thank you so much. I don't know anywhere else where I can put out a problem/question and get so much wise advice back so quickly. Thank you Melissa and Regretful for sharing your experiences with secretive eating. It makes H seem like less of a freak knowing that others do it too and I think your approaches make lots of sense.

I won't bring up the topic of the hidden ice-cream. I do think I might encourage him to have a dessert next time we're out and I will stock up on the ice-cream he likes (since I now know his favourite!)

Don't monitor or mention anything about his intake, cut him loose! Do this and he WILL at least stop the sneaking.

I'd love to at least stop the sneaking. He still sneaks when the food is in the house but it's better than lying about why he's popping out for.

More importantly, don't forget that your first goal here is to improve the marriage. Helping him correct his eating disorders can always come later.

That's a great reminder, FY. First things first.

Is any particular action bringing you closer together or driving you apart?

Good question, FY.

Right now H is at a party for the 15th anniversary of S13's school. H is a trustee/governor and I wasn't invited so that wasn't an issue. He went looking smart but unshaven (supposedly so that he has a moustache in time for Saturday's party). Normally, I would have teased H about looking like a homeless person and said that he could just wear a fake moustache on Sat or not bother with the moustache requirement. I said nothing ab him being so unshaven but complimented him on his clothes. My saying nothing about touchy topics seems to be what's making the biggest difference for now. My not expressing strong opinions also seems to be helping. He likes my not asking for too much information. He has often complained about him being in the spotlight and me being to focused on him. He likes not to be accountable for his actions and words. He hates it if I hold him to something he's said. He's told me not to take what he says seriously. We traditionally get into arguments because I say that that is crazy-making.

H just texted me from the party to say that a senior guy we know from the school told him he looks like somebody's foreign minister. I'm not sure what that's supposed to mean. I just texted back' x' Now he's texted again saying 'I think he has the hots for me.' It's obviously some joke since the guy in question would not have the hots for H. He's married with kids. Now, I noticed that he's sent me a joke email. He's just bought himself a mini-ipad and I think he uses it everywhere. He can't be without his electronic gadgets for long.

When the heating engineer and I were in H's study today, I spotted some books on top of the water tank. Years ago, when I last spotted books on the water tank they were about how how best to prepare kids for D! I couldn't resist looking at one of them and it was about the Holocaust. I didn't dare look at the other two. Who knows what they could be about. His mother's ashes are still in his cupboard eight years on. I'm always a bit embarrassed to carry out the urn when someone needs to check the boiler. (The boiler is behind shelves in H's study).

Last night, H got into a really heated debate with D15 and S17 about the sitch in Gaza (started by the children). He immediately took them not agreeing with his position personally and he ended up storming into his study after several dismissive hand gestures. D15 said "I take that to be a victory". I tried to stay out of it because it annoyed me that H was so emotional and bad at arguing his case. He just kept dismissing them and their points and looking irritated without presenting his own evidence to support Israel. All I said was "Don't go into debating, you take it all very personally". After that, I zipped my lips. I'm sure that wasn't good DBing but it was a lot better than what I could have done which was lecture him on how bad he is at dealing with anyone who does not share his views. He is useless at arguing/debating. I remember him taking offence years ago when I felt differently from the way he felt about a movie we'd seen. I've often told him that he should have married a woman with no opinions. I don't know why he chose me because he seems so threatened by the fact that I have a brain.

He abandoned his PhD whereas I got mine from a prestigious uni. He likes it and hates it at the same time. As time as gone on, I think he hates it more than he likes it. He loves to put me down when he can so is very quick to jump on me if I get some fact wrong. His general knowledge is much better than mine and I don't claim any superiority but it bugs me that he is so keen to point out when I make a mistake and so crap at being corrected himself.

Here I go into a rant again. Here are some positives about H:

-His general knowledge is fantastic
-He is v musical
-He is crazy about the kids
-He gives me lots of space and is not in the slightest bit intrusive
-He takes an interest in my family (he only has one cousin since no one else in his family escaped the war and both his parents are dead. He does have one half-brother who isn't keen on contact with H because H was his dad's OW's son.)
-He is helpful with my dad (with Alzheimer's) and is very open to doing AofS for my extended family
-He is adventurous and curious
-He used to be v tender with me and still is with the kids
-He performs lots of AofS for the kids. He will drive them anywhere at any time of day or night (if given enough notice)


H has just texted me a photo of S13 that he took a few days ago. God knows what he's doing at this party?! Typically, he's doing something else other than what he's meant to be doing. I guess I shouldn't complain because he's getting in touch with me.

Anyway, it's nice having more time because he's out. The thing is, Tori, that I really don't like parties much at all. I figure that if H prefers me not to be there and if I don't like them is there any point me going? I don't think POW will be there anyway as she's not from that group and I'm invited. POW has either really gone underground or he's not communicating as much with her. I really don't know but there has been no mention of her since Aug 13 when he took her to the theatre and swore that nothing was going on.

Sorry for this long stream of consciousness on my part. Hope there are useful bits to pick up on!

[Wendylon]

H must have left the party for the school's 15th because he is still texting me stuff (at 10:50 pm) and it was just supposed to be a drinks party with no supper. I wonder if he's gone to the communal work setting where he sees POW. I'll try not to think about it... At least, he's corresponding with me.

He's just asked if it's OK by me if he goes to Romania week of 10 Dec. That's where he last went to work with POW. Arghhh

He's texted again to say that he's talking with people from the school. How could he be doing that and texting me at the same time? Anything is possible.

I wonder if I'm becoming a bit paranoid. To bed!

[mamabird]

I really don't know but there has been no mention of her since Aug 13 when he took her to the theatre and swore that nothing was going on.

You know my H did THE EXACT SAME THING, right??? Ok, it was Nov. 3. That was the only difference.

[mamabird]

I think the texting with you during the party was good, actually. He it means he wanted to be in contact with you and NOT focused on POW.

Did he ever mention the D word to you? Or was finding that book your first indication that he was considering it?

[tori2012]

Wendylon, great job putting down a list of positives.

I think it's fine to argue about a topic, and even healthy for the R, but make sure you're listening to his point of view and can "agree to disagree."

The texting was a good sign. He could've just ignored you during the party. Maybe he felt a bit guilty to go alone? If you don't like going to parties, is there any fun activities you can both enjoy? If so, try to schedule it sometime before his trip.

[Wendylon]

Yes, Regretful, I realised that your H did the exact same thing when I was reading through your sitch. It really is amazing how many similarities there are between our Hs. I find it really helpful because it helps make my H's actions seem less personal towards me. I'm also inspired to think that you are fighting the same challenges. To answer your question, when I found the books on D in H's cupboard eight years ago, I knew about OW but the D word hadn't been mentioned explicitly.

Thank you, Tori, for your feedback too. H and I met at a new restaurant yesterday which was fun. He went there straight from the train station. Re-entry is often better for us if it's not at home.

You're right to emphasise me listening. I messed up a bit with that just this morning. H was telling me about S13's school and complaining about how the governors (he is one) have no power and how the trustees are the only ones who know the budget and really have the power. Instead of just listening and validating I started saying that maybe it needed to be like that (and went on about it too..). Mistake number 1.

I then put my foot in it again this morning. H was in the bath and I thought he should have been further along in terms of taking S13 to his swimming lesson. He seemed to be cutting it very close. I asked him something about it. Mistake number 2.

On Monday, I went to see my consultant re meds and have started switching from Citalopram over to Escitalopram (Celexa to Lexapro in US). It looks as if my neutrophil count drops when I'm on Celexa so we're hoping that the Lexapro helps with that and also I still feel a bit anxious in the mornings on my current meds (even though they worked for years) so hoping that the second one might work a bit better. All this to say, that H asked me how the appointment went by text when he was away and I said that I wouldn't say anything but that he should give me feedback.

Since Monday, I've added a small dose of the second and remained on the former. Anyway, based on how I was with him in the convo about S13's school and my nagging him about swimming, H is guessing that I'm off the ADs altogether. He says he's worried. Obviously, my DBing hasn't been great this morning I haven't set him straight about fact that I'm switching not coming off. Maybe I should just tell him so that he doesn't start to look for the negatives. Then again, it's a good reminder for me to stay on track--a good barometer of how I'm doing.

I haven't told H because I wanted to know if there was a difference between how I seem on the two without him knowing what's happening. I was off ADs altogether last year because of the problem with neutropenia and I do think that that partly accounts for why H and I had such a hard time. My anxiety spills over into controlling him.

The first time I took ADs was when S13 regressed at two and a half. He had been developing typically but then regressed--late onset autism. The ADs did really help with that challenge and I do remember thinking that I felt more like the person I was meant to be on them and stayed on them until a couple of years ago.

A couple of years ago, I had a scare because my bone marrow functioning was suppressed and the specialist thought I had MDS. A bone marrow biopsy showed that wasn't the case so it was then thought to be the effect of the ADs. I went off for a while and lasted 7 months before I really felt I needed something again to cope. At the time, I was finding life with S13 very challenging. I tried a couple of different ones (Duloxetine=Cymbalta and Sertraline=Zoloft) that didn't really work for me. I didn't try Lexapro as it was thought to be too close to Celexa in molecular structure. Since nothing was working, I finally went back on Celexa and did feel much better. After a few months, I tried to do without it again because of the bone marrow worry and because I thought it would somehow be better if I could do without medication. I lasted off the meds nearly 9 months but struggled. I went back on the Celexa in June 2012, despite the neutrophil worry, because I was getting terrible panic attacks every morning as I woke up. The neutrophil count stayed fine until my last blood test this month. It's so hard to know whether the Celexa is the cause. Sorry about all the detail!

I'm hoping that my posting here will help me get back on the DBing wagon.

Belated Happy Thanksgiving to all Americans. The American School isn't far from where I live. Every time I saw kids in the street during school hours yesterday and the day before, I knew they were American and thought of all of you on this board.

[Wendylon]

When will I know if I need to start a new thread?

I've forgotten how that works.