Help

[AJ1]

My husband dropped a bomb on me just over a month ago. He left a note to say he was leaving me and not been happy for almost 10 year. Went to counselling where he said he had not been attracted to me for years. Thought I was too skinny and did not have the sort of body he prefers. After I became suspicious I found he has been having a emotional affair with a co-worker for the past 4 months. She is also having marital difficulties and will likely divorce. He is head over heals in love with her and refuses to consider giving me another chance. Main issue for him has been lack of intimacy and sex, which I think has led to the loss of attraction. We were only having sex about every month or 2 for the past few years. I did not question him though in retrospect I should have. He thought I was no longer interested. He has not quite moved out, but his bags are packed. Every time we see the counsellor he drops another bomb on me, but at home behaves as though nothing has happenned unless I say something. I can feel him drawing further away every day, but am not sure how much I should say as he is now finding me "claustrophobic" I think the only reason he has agreed to continue counselling is to try and make the divorce easier on me (We have been married almost 17 years) I have backed off, but would desperately like to rekindle our physical relationship. We have had more sex recently, but it has been driven by emotional discussions about him leaving. He thinks I do not know how to be sensual because of my upbringing and says he and the "other woman" both know this is something you are born with and cannot learn. Any suggestions appreciated.

[AnotherStander]

My husband dropped a bomb on me just over a month ago. He left a note to say he was leaving me and not been happy for almost 10 year. Went to counselling where he said he had not been attracted to me for years.

Have you read DR yet? If not get it and read it. You will learn a lot about your sitch and about why your H is doing some of the things he is doing. First of all it's unlikely he's been unhappy that long, but WAS's tend to rewrite history and make things sound much worse then they actually were. Don't let it get to you, it's typical behavior.

He is head over heals in love with her

He THINKS he is. He's in the "puppy love" stage. The body releases dopamine into the system and gives people that warm, fuzzy "I'm in love" feeling. That typically wears off in 1 to 6 months. Often affairs end in that time frame because once reality sets in the affair loses its appeal.

Every time we see the counsellor he drops another bomb on me, but at home behaves as though nothing has happenned unless I say something.

Read DR. Do not initiate any R talks at all. It might be a good idea to drop the counseling, it rarely helps in the position you're in. You might consider DB coaching, you should find it more helpful.

I can feel him drawing further away every day, but am not sure how much I should say as he is now finding me "claustrophobic"

You should pull back, give him time and space, quit hassling him with R discussions. Detach, GAL, work on your PMA.

He thinks I do not know how to be sensual because of my upbringing and says he and the "other woman" both know this is something you are born with and cannot learn.

Ah yes, the two of them are so knowledgeable and worldly, aren't they? Sensuality is NOT something you're born with, that's why so many couples have so much trouble in this area. They think people are just supposed to know how to be sensual, so they don't ever discuss it with each other or a counselor. Sensuality must be learned, and it requires very intense and personal communication. Often a sex therapist is required to get couples on the right track. Unfortunately I think you're not in a position to pursue that right now. If your H decides to reconcile then maybe, but right now it sounds like he's one foot out the door. Get DR and start learning about DB'ing, it's what you need to do at this point.

[AJ1]

Sorry I am new to this what is DR. I assuming R is relationship. I have just hired a marriage/divorce specialist for myself. Hopefully will help more than counsellor

[25yearsmlc]

My husband dropped a bomb on me just over a month ago. He left a note to say he was leaving me and not been happy for almost 10 year. Went to counselling where he said he had not been attracted to me for years.

Have you read DR yet? If not get it and read it.

DO THIS^^^^ ASAP!!!


You will learn a lot about your sitch and about why your H is doing some of the things he is doing. First of all it's unlikely he's been unhappy that long, but WAS's tend to rewrite history and make things sound much worse then they actually were. Don't let it get to you, it's typical behavior.

if he was so unhappy why did he stay? Is he a GREAT actor? he should be in the movies if he "acted" so happy. Anyone who "ACTS" happy IS happy, imo.
As the DR book will tell you, his words mean nothing at the moment.

He is head over heals in love with her

He THINKS he is. He's in the "puppy love" stage. The body releases dopamine into the system and gives people that warm, fuzzy "I'm in love" feeling. That typically wears off in 1 to 6 months. Often affairs end in that time frame because once reality sets in the affair loses its appeal.

the only "quibble" i have with this^^ is that I don't want YOU to wait around for him thinking on a given day/time, He''ll come home. It may take longer or he may not.

YOU MUST Get A Life of your own and bring something to the table

. Be a woman only a fool would leave

ALSO, I don't' understand why you didn't want sex more often. Clearly it meant something to your h. So, what was the issue? Are you working on it?

Did you with hold sex as a weapon and make him "earn" it? That's a big turn off and feels like rejection to a man, which it is...but it's something YOU CAN change...

THIS IS KEY FOR YOU TO GRASP---

There's only ONE way he'll return to you...AND that's if

he believes marriage to you, can be better/different than before.

So

YOU MUST SHOW HIM THAT and yet, you must do it without pleading or begging...

so start dressing and talking and BEING more sensual (wear a NEW DIFFERENT perfume)...become more touchy feely affectionate EVEN if it's with other people you hug, or touch the hands or shoulders of to communicate (NOT Sexually with other people, but WARM and friendly and open...)

If it seems to hard to feel it, then Fake it til you make it. Do not "wait til you feel" that way. DO IT...

too many folks (esp women) think lust or sexuality will "land on them" like an apple off a tree. You do have some control in this, you know. Where the head goes, the heart will follow (IF we let it!). SO as you THINK more sexually and physically and more openly and let your positive warm emotions express themselves (while respecting others' boundaries of course)

you'll likely find MORE affection and warmth in your life as well.

YES-

YOU CAN LEARN THIS ABSOLUTELY...I know that for a fact. Just as the military taught me NOT to touch people or use first names or be overly familiar, getting out of the Army and going to a California corporation and being around "touchy feely" people helped me open back up.

Every time we see the counsellor he drops another bomb on me, but at home behaves as though nothing has happenned unless I say something.

Read DR. Do not initiate any R talks at all. It might be a good idea to drop the counseling, it rarely helps in the position you're in. You might consider DB coaching, you should find it more helpful.

Agreed...the DB coaching is specific and helpful and I had a Godsent DB coach. She did not want me to "Save the marriage AT ALL costs", but she did want me to SAVE MYSELF and my family and then...the rest happened.

Most mc's re-hash the past and then the WAS justifies their reasons for leaving.
If anything, I found it tended to cement their reasons for leaving, OR

in our case, a few times a MC would tell my h that he was "wrong" to want to leave. That he was "acting like a single man" and I'd FEEL vindicated...but powerless.

I mean, what do I DO with feeling "right", but NOT being able to change anything?

My H did not "hear" them. He said I had "Brainwashed" the mc's to agree with me b/c I'm a L and can speak well...so it was not helpful...

until we found a pro-marriage SOLUTION based counselor who was a lot like my DB coach.

But even then, my h did not benefit from seeing that guy until a lot of time had passed AND I had made the changes I NEEDED TO MAKE FOR ME AND MY KIDS...

My anger and pain consumed ME...preoccupied me, interfered with my life so much. I repeated myself and would NOT move forward in any direction for a long time. I felt paralyzed. I had to DO something for/to ME...

I had some work of my own to do. AND That's good news, btw. Why is it good news to learn WE have things to work on and improve???

B/C it meant I was NOT powerless! There WERE things for me to do to improve my situation no matter what my h chose to do!

I think you have some too. The whole sex thing is NOT a small issue, and you're not the first woman to find herself "betrayed" but then when you dig a bit deeper you realize,

"Hey, I played a role in the demise of my m"...

b/c men who feel rejected, over time, get very lonely. And when they meet a willing OW, they feel "loved" and "in love" and the LBS wife who wasn't showing her h physical affection, has to own THAT part.

NOT ALL OF IT is your fault, (maybe your h isn't sensitive to your needs in bed or isn't slow enough)

And no one is saying your h was perfect...and you are understandably hurt.

But you have to remember if you want the marriage to be restored or re-made

YOU will have to change. HE is NOT HERE working on the marriage; you are.

You'll have to take the first step towards change, (and probably the 2nd step and the third step, and maybe the first 100 steps..).

until if & when your h wants back in. AT WHICH TIME you can discuss what your needs are from him.

Til then, what can you do to change his perceptions of you? First change your perceptions of yourself...in you. That takes action and attitude.

You must undermine the negative images he's got of you (that he uses to justify leaving you with)

with positives. So Contrast those negative images with Positives...

if he says you are "always late", you start arriving EARLY...if he says you are a "neat freak OCD woman", you lighten up and leave some dishes out a night or two...

You get my point? Those are 180s to countermand & undermine HIS negatives...


then there are the

OTHER 180s (when you read the book this will make more sense so again, please, READ the Div Remedy book asap...SIDENOTE--Div Remedy is the 2nd edition of the first book, so either one is fine. In my opinion the Div Remedy book is a little better b/c it's more up to date. No biggie though)

So the other 180s are the ones you want to make for you b/c they are to make you a better YOU.

You can use the ones I mention above in my hypothetical, but also, dig deeper... How else do you sabotage happiness in your life or the lives of those around you? Are you a worrier who sees the negatives too much?

Are you someone who doesn't feel comfortable around vivacious happy people who get " a little loud"--- b/c hey, that CAN be seen as being a kill joy. Some of it is cultural but again, it's changeable.

You don't want to be seen as lessening other folks enjoyment of things. You don't have to be the life of the party to change that, either. Just learn to enjoy folks, relax and trust that you'll be alright.

If I could get you to see one thing in all this it would be just that...you will be alright. You WILL survive this. And maybe, you'll come to thrive when the ordeal has passed.

Many of us feel more "awake" now than before and for some, this "nightmare ordeal" was a Godsend blessing in disguise.

WERE you getting complacent in your life? that reads as boring and no one wants that including especially YOU

b/c you are an interestING and interestED woman with a lot to offer the world....so start acting like it til you believe it.

When I came to see myself as the great catch I was/am, I think that positive feeling began to show and radiate, and I BELIEVED it....and then, seems like my h did too.

So do those 180s for YOU...then no matter what else happens, you'll be in a better place.

What are the other things HE SAYS are missing or "wrong" in the marriage or you?

Not that they are true, but there are usually threads of truth to some of what they say and we can use it for our own good.

Let that information be useful "intel" like you are a spy on a mission. Try not to take it too personally...he's in a fog right now.

Also, do you have kids? What are their ages?

What are your jobs and educations like?

What do you guys have in common?

And last but not least, I will post to you some "rules" for newbies so that you can function for now until you have read the Div Busting or Div Remedy books...which you MUST DO

if you don't read either book and just come here to vent, you'll spin your wheels and you have a little time right now to turn this around.

Use it wisely. LEARN ALL YOU CAN...get the Divorce Busting or Divorce Remedy book and read it now. That way, what we tell you hear will sink in so much faster and you'll change your life faster too.

Then maybe get the book "The Five Love Languages" by Chapman b/c we tend to give and receive love in ways that are different from our spouses....so while we THOUGHT we were showing our love, we may have let our spouses love tank run on empty for a long time...unknowingly. I suggest that book for ALL couples...

And for men, sex is a frequent measure of how close they feel to their wives...

Don't give up hope. Figure out how YOU can be the best YOU and read all you can and post often here. 6 Years ago I gave my marriage a "10% chance of success" but hey, here I am.

You are not alone.

It's NOT over....but work on YOU b/c you are all you can control....

I can feel him drawing further away every day, but am not sure how much I should say as he is now finding me "claustrophobic"

You should pull back, give him time and space, quit hassling him with R discussions. Detach, GAL, work on your PMA.

Agreed^^^

He thinks I do not know how to be sensual because of my upbringing and says he and the "other woman" both know this is something you are born with and cannot learn.

Ah yes, the two of them are so knowledgeable and worldly, aren't they? Sensuality is NOT something you're born with, that's why so many couples have so much trouble in this area. They think people are just supposed to know how to be sensual, so they don't ever discuss it with each other or a counselor. Sensuality must be learned, and it requires very intense and personal communication. Often a sex therapist is required to get couples on the right track. Unfortunately I think you're not in a position to pursue that right now.

True - but YOU CAN "act more sensual"...without being sleazy or trashy looking or making a fool of yourself.

Just ENJOY how YOU look and feel. Take in the sun, shake your hair some, wear more make up if you usually don''t wear more flattering clothes, "get dolled up"....treat yourself special. Men are visual...

so take extra care with your APPEARANCE...without looking desparate. Expect NO FEEDBACK from your h. He won't want to admit noticing. Does not matter.

Do this so YOU feel more attractive and sexual and sensual. His reaction to you will NOT be the goal and don't wait for it or look for it. IF he compliments you, say a quick "thanks, & I've been meaning to color my hair for awhile now..." like you were going to do it anyhow...

Years ago I went to a "personal growth workshop" for issues mostly NOT related to my marriage (childhood stuff I had not yet resolved but wasn't even aware of, balancing work/parenting, and getting clarity, etc) but I went to it when I was 7 months pregnant. I didnt' feel sexy or attractive b/c I was...FAT....or so I thought. (BTW it's called 'Essential Experience" and it still exists on the east coast-check their website out if you like)

So I went there pregnant b/c I knew I wouldn't have time right after the baby came and my brother and his wife CHANGED SO MUCH after they went, that I went...but

I began, in 4 short days, TO FEEL and SEE MYSELF THROUGH NEW EYES and
I just felt more beautiful and sensual and NOT fat...

and it showed. Our ML had been good but even so, it improved and we connected more b/c I was more comfortable with how I saw myself.

Instead of feeling fat, I felt "womanly, fertile & desirable"...hard to explain, but so much of this is in our heads and WE DO control what is there.

Oh sure, we may have grown up with someone else's input inside our heads (like our parent's beliefes or a teacher's opinion, or first boyfriend's)

but WE can remove what does not work for us

and replace it with healthier and more loving thoughts and beliefs...we can, and you can too. It's up to you.

If your H decides to reconcile then maybe, but right now it sounds like he's one foot out the door. Get DR and start learning about DB'ing, it's what you need to do at this point.

[25yearsmlc]

AJ1

here are those "rules for newbies" I mentioned to you, until you can read the Div Remedy or Div Busting book(s)...

These are "Rules" for newcomers assembled/organized by Sandi, consisting of principles based on MWD's Div Busting approach, (& edited SLIGHTLY by yours truly). I recommend you copy and paste & print it out. Carry it in your pocket if you have to. I know I did.

FOR WHEN YOU GET "THE BOMB"….

1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore! This turns the spouse completely off!

2. No frequent phone calls to spouse.......let him/her be the one to call you. Then, don't try to hang on to your spouse through conversation.....instead, you say good-bye first.

3. Do not point out good points in marriage or try to get him/her to read marriage books, look at your M pictures, etc. Especially, do not get him/her to read the DB/DR book. That is for you only!

4. Do not follow your spouse around the house like a puppy dog trying to get his/her time and attention.

5. Do not encourage talk about the future. They don't want to think about a future with you at the moment, so stay clear of that subject.

6. Do not ask for help from family members or friends. Don't discuss private matters with them that would upset your spouse.

7. Do not ask for reassurances (That is showing neediness and
being clingy.) Show self-respect and self confidence.

8. Do not buy gifts to make "brownie points". (Can't buy his/her love and affection.)

9. Do not schedule dates together at this point. (That is pursuing.) Save for later when the R is much better.

10. Do not spy on spouse by checking emails, phone bills, etc. (Not good for you and will make matters worse.) In short, No Snooping.

11. Do not say "I Love You" (It is being "pushy" and trying to
make your spouse say it back to you......he/she will despise you for it.)

12. Act "as if" you are moving on with your life with or without them and that you are going to be okay. Keep a good attitude.


***13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times! In other words, be the best you can be and look the best you can look at all times. Even when wearing jeans and T-shirt, wear good cologne/perfume, b/c it does cause the spouse to take notice.

14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse to see what kind of mood he/she is in or what he/she is going to do or say – get busy, think of things to do. Go to church, go out with friends, etc. in order to get a life for yourself without waiting on your wife/husband.....but it is okay to invite them, just don't act as if it will change your plans if they do or don't go.

15. When at home with your spouse, do 180s… (so if you usually start the conversation---then don't, wait for him/her to initiate), then be rather scarce or minimal with your words, but don't sound rude or too short like you are mad. If your spouse asks what's wrong....just say "nothing" and have a pleasant expression on your face. Keep it short & simple. Don't get into an argument! Stay polite and don’ t act like you are pouting. Use poise and class. This does not mean to act like you aren’t speaking, but don’t be overly talkative.

16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his/her
whereabouts, ASK THEM NOTHING!! (No matter what time he/she comes home.) You are giving them space and asking no questions! You enjoy YOUR life and time with your kids, friends, etc. Remember, you are getting a life too.

17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an
awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to
move on with your life, with or without your spouse.

18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait
to see if spouse notices and, more important, YOU must realize what he/she will be missing. (But never ask him/her if he/she has noticed any changes!!) This is important! If you do, then you have blown it. The supposed changes will look like "tactics" to get them back, & then they won't believe the changes are lasting.

19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. This can confuse some of them b/c it is not what they expected. Show your spouse someone he/she would want to be around all the time, somebody that can be attractive & fun to be with. (As hard as this is, remember that angry, sad, pouting people do NOT ATTRACT others to them). The FUN somebody is you! Don't overkill in your attempts to outshine another person your spouse may be having an A with (if there is OP in the picture) to the point of looking like your attempts are "fake" b/c your spouse will see through all of that.

20. All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until
your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while) so this takes patience on your behalf.

21. Never lose your cool! Never lose your temper! (That reinforces their choice to leave). Don't let your spouse trap you into a fight. Don't take her/his bait.....leave the room or the house for a while, if you have to, in order to avoid a fight.

22. Don't be overly enthusiastic, don't over-kill or be over the top in anything you do b/c it will come across as fake.

23. Do not argue about how your spouse feels about something (it only makes his/her feelings more negative.) Only they know how they feel!

24. Be patient……VERY, very patient. Give your spouse space and time. When you pull back, it will draw them towards you. It feels opposite of what you want to do, but it works!

25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Look them in the eyes when they talk to you. Do NOT interrupt them when they are speaking, OR correct them, and stop what you may be working on or doing, to look at them when they talk. This shows them that you really care about what they are saying. (Listening better never hurts.)

26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to
speak out (or scream and yell). Silence can be the loving thing to "not say."

27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all
the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil). This is for your health's sake.

28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. Calmness is soothing to the calm person AND their "audience". Read self
help books, inspirational books or listen to tapes. They are for you only, NOT your spouse. The more you tell them what you are doing (or trying to show them) the more your actions will seem manipulative & insincere.

29. Know that if you can do 180's, your smallest CONSISTENT
actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say
or write or a single dramatic gesture. (Not saying not to do/say those too, but focus on consistent changes, over time. That earns the spouse's belief in the changes).

30. Do not openly show that you are "desperate" or "needy" even when you are hurting more than ever, & even when you truly feel desperate & needy. This is a large turn-off for your spouse. Very important that you get this concept.

31. When you communicate with your spouse, do not focus on yourself; instead, focus on them. If in person, make eye contact.

32. Do not believe any of what THEY SAY and less than 50% of what THEY DO. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because
he/she is hurting and scared, AND OR, b/c they want to justify their leaving.

33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.

34. Do not ask your spouse if he/she has noticed your changes! Those changes are for you and for the rest of your life...with or without your spouse. If it is just to get your spouse back...they won't last and the same problems will return.

35. Do not send several TM's or emails throughout the day, unless absolutely necessary. (That means only in urgent matters.)

36. It is best to stay away from the bar scenes where other problems easily arise.

37. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes.

38. Do Not convince yourself that being miserable or sad shows how much you care for your spouse. It's not attractive or appealing, period.

39. If there is OW/OM in the picture, don't focus on them. BE the better choice, which means being a spouse only a fool would leave.

40. Know that you really will be alright in the long run, that your personal work will yield good things regardless of the choices others make.

You are not alone and You will be happy again.

[NickB]

AJ1,

You are receiving great advice here. Take time to read DR and post on this board frequently until moderation is turned off.

I have benefited personally many times over form the advice on here and while some of it will seem counter intuitive at first, it starts to make sense after you place it into practice.

Learn to lovingly detach and start focusing on you.

[AJ1]

Thanks all - I have ordered the books.
I never withheld sex - he just stopped asking and I was never good at letting him know I needed it. Unfortunately I let this go way too long and have ended up in this situation. He was dealing with his needs in other ways and says he is not interested in me any more, although it doesn't seem that way when we actually do get together.

[AJ1]

I got home tonight and he has left - sent me a text to say he needs space.

I never withheld sex - we just both assumed neither were interested and never talked about it. I should have addressed it years ago and now I am paying with a divorce.

[AJ1]

Had a dreadful session with counsellor last night. I am not going back. She tried to force me to be responsible and address the current affair. She thinks I am dependant on him and unrealistically want to sort things out. She tried to force him to decide try with me or leave for her. He all but said leave and is seeing her next week so she can help him make his decision. Everything I do and say is wrong. I tried a 180 and he just threw it back at me. Think it's hopeless - he has no interest in trying to work it out. He keeps saying I do not have the type of body he is attracted to and never have had - but he initially thought he could get out that. His coworker has all of that. He also can't get past the fact I have a higher income than him and doesn't want to continue in that situation even though he was always aware that would be the case when we married. I can't stop crying and really don't know what else to do. He will be home 1 night on Sun before he moves out for good.

[sandi2]

"He keeps saying I do not have the type of body he is attracted to and never have had - but he initially thought he could get out that."

How do "you" feel about your body?