We're on the same wavelength with your last post. H and I just discussed the status quo thing last night. After our spat, I asked him, "Now what" and he replied, "Status quo." I reminded him of something we talked about years ago, that in a M, you're either growing closer or further apart, but there is no status quo. I think the "fail" check comes from that .... our progress was not growing closer as I would like, and therefore was growing farther apart.
I get your question about what do I want to do to be more successful, but I look at it more in that there are simply things I'd like to do, or to do better. I'm not a success monger. In fact, I've loved being a contractor for years because I get to stay out of the political backstabbing and just enjoy my work. So for me personally, just getting more organized and knocking some to-do's off the list. Simple things, like putting together a preparedness kit. For these I have a number of lists that I maintain or recreate occasionally. I do a bunch, I don't do them all. My main one right now is completing my degree, second is purging the house of way too much stuff. My prior one was a rebuild of the deck, patio and sidewalk (which turned out fabulous, btw.) There's always something being added or removed from the list.
Fascinating look at the geeks and how they interact; the way they munge all that data into information...
CV, I went back and took a look at your earlier posts. Remember the one where you posted Michelle's article? Have you re-read that recently?
A few questions: Know what the difference between and good and a great marriage is? Know what the difference between a failed and a great marriage is?
Have you figured out why you want to leave yet? You've already given up hope of *him* changing. You've already figured out that you've changed. You aren't sure about the next steps or what they look like.
You "feel" like you've tried everything, right? But you are not sure, right?
Do you know what the difference between success and failure is, yet? Not just in marriage, but in general?
Peace, AJ
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK Put the glass down... "Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
Statements? No. Just asking questions. I cannot decide for you. I can see your thinking from your posts however, and I can see there are some other issues that seem to be part of this. That's how it reads to me at any rate.
Remember I asked you if you could find a way to trust your H? Did you put any additional thought into that? Something that's possible? What is it?
Peace, AJ
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK Put the glass down... "Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
The picture that came to mind when I questioned myself on how anyone earns back trust is the vision of a criminal standing before a parole board. It's their job to figure out if the criminal has changed his thieving ways. But the criminal doesn't even stop back-talking, acting out, being disrespectful and violent while the board is trying to review his case, so the idea of whether or not he's going to steal again becomes rather irrelevant. Perhaps he won't ever steal again, but there are so many other issues it doesn't really matter. The person is not rehabilitated enough to trust out on the street again.
My H actually has to stop the unacceptable behaviors before I can even begin to rebuild my trust. Otherwise, I trust him completely, to continue doing exactly what he's doing.
Even a criminal is let back on the street after time served. Rehabilitation is not a requirement...Society finds a way to give them another chance even if they have the same behavior.
You just equated your H to a criminal, in a way. To a violent, deranged criminal at that.
I dare say you will find a way to see him differently - at some point. But to you he will have "changed" his ways even if he doesn't...back to the perspective thing again, no?
Really? You can't think of a way? A mind like yours, and you can't see a way? I'm surprised. Kind of.
Peace, AJ
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK Put the glass down... "Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
I wasn't comparing my H to a violent, deranged criminal. I was trying to figure out how someone earns trust. It wouldn't do much good to use an example of lending someone another quarter, in spite of the fact that they didn't pay back the quarter you lent them yesterday. Because who really cares if you can trust them to pay the quarter back. No big loss if they don't.
Yes, they get out for time served. That isn't because they've become trustworthy. And if they get caught stealing again, they are put right back in prison, usually with a longer sentence. If I were equating my H, then there's no discussion to be had because at that rate, he'd be serving 27 life sentences and it becomes a moot point. As it stands, he's a free man, which means he is free to continue the same behavior, and he does.
Ironically, my H frequently exhibits all the behaviors I referenced in my "criminal" example, but I didn't even realize that until you pointed out that I was equating him to a criminal. Maybe he is and I'm really not judging him harshly enough. You described the person as "deranged." In that case, I think I'm doing quite well, thank you.
AJ, when you make suggestions that I need to change my POV so that I will see H differently even when he hasn't changed any of his behaviors, I think of the scenes in Monsters, Inc. where Mike watches himself on a commercial on TV, looks all disappointed because his face was covered by an advertisement the whole time, then he breaks out in a big grin, saying, "I was on TV!!"
I think this is the attitude(perspective) you're getting at. However, that scene is comedy, it's not reflecting that "obliviousness" as being smart or even serious. I've seen that character trait played out in numerous shows with different characters, but it's never done in a "good" light, but always mocking.
Anyway, perhaps my resistance or inability is because I've never felt that was a good way to go.
You described the person as "deranged." In that case, I think I'm doing quite well, thank you.
I do like the Monster Inc reference. Love those movies.
Smart is not the same as wisdom, if that helps.
My point about perspective doesn't seem to help. I get that, but for the sake of argument, one more attempt if you will indulge me. Perhaps it will offer something to you. If not, no worries.
A definition of perspective is "the state of one's ideas" which can mean a lot of things if you want to argue it. I don't, but I can see how it could be. Perspective is really about how you interpret what you view in this case. For example, if your view of a rough patch of ground is that it is dirty and grimy, your perspective might be that it is worthless and dirty. You expected to find dirt and grime, and you did and deemed it useless. You gave it away. Somebody else may come along and see that same patch of ground and see diamonds. They took the diamonds.
You both saw the same patch of dirt. You saw dirt and grime. They saw beauty and potential.
A diamond in the rough so to speak.
The irony is that you were, at one time, both those people looking at the same patch of ground.
In your posts, you list reasons why you see it as a worthless patch of dirt that won't amount to anything. You didn't harvest the diamonds, so they are still there. But your perspective of your view seems to have changed and while you don't want to let go of the patch of dirt altogether, you "see" no value in it. You said that somebody else might because it is worthless to you (now). You have lived with that too long and can't take that anymore. It's time to cut your losses and move on.
What I'm trying to say is that I don't understand your perspective. I'm guessing I won't because I have a different perspective (I don't live your life, so it's easier right?) I don't see an elephant or a dog. I don't see it as you "having to put up with" the elephant's behavior or try to change it. I see it as your perspective having changed. Once you saw a dog but now see an elephant. I don't know why that is or what it is you can do about it, but it strikes me as a perspective shift more than an epiphany.
I've been around in this life long enough to know that views change. Perspectives change. People change. We're not static, and because of that experience, I don't see how you can say your H will NEVER change. Your logic is flawed because he is not a robot. Therefore he is not static. If he is not static, he is dynamic. And flawed. Always has been. Just like you. Just like me. Part of the human condition, I suspect. I don't see how you will never change. You did already so it seems logical to expect that you will again. As it is logical to expect that your H will change as well.
I'm not saying it is not difficult. I am saying that what you describe doesn't seem to be insurmountable issues. I've seen far worse that was overcome. In those cases, what changed were the participants perspectives. I've seen far less be a reason somebody decided to leave a relationship as well. Again, perspectives changed. What once was endearing, became annoying. Perspective again, because the action didn't change, in case you're wondering.
Enough though. I think you have the information at this point. I truly wish you the best. I think you're a very smart person, and I'm sure you'll figure out what you're going to do without my boring diatribes about perspective and perspective changes.
Allow me to leave you with this: As Michelle pointed out in the letter you posted early on, "..if this is your situation, hang on...." Your choice of course.
All the best, CV.
AJ
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK Put the glass down... "Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
I hesitated to use the word smart because it seems to be a hot button to many. It means nothing to me. I just didn't take the time to come up with something else.
When you presented the patch of dirt, my first thought was, "Awesome! A place to plant some flowers!" But to run with that anyway ....
When I tried to plant flowers, I found that the ground was full of broken glass that cut my fingers. As I worked diligently to till the soil, I was stung by bees and bit by mosquitoes. I kept at it though, because I believed it would eventually produce a beautiful garden. The dirt didn't contain any nutrients and the flowers that I planted wasted away, so I spent lots of money on fertilizer. I did everything I knew to do to get the garden to grow, expending every ounce of energy I possessed, only to find out that the soil was tainted with salt and I would never get my flowers from it. I simply couldn't SEE what was really in the soil, regardless of how it appeared, or else I never would have planted the garden in the first place. Sure, I could put in a parking lot, but I'm just not interested in a parking lot, even if someone else is. They can have the dirt, because it has no value to me. My perspective changed, because of what I learned. I used to see a place for a beautiful garden, but now I see a patch of toxic soil that will never grow flowers (in my lifetime), because of what I learned about the soil.
By your summation, then, it all seems rather simple. I'd already planned on hanging on for the next 6 years or so until S12 went off on his own. If H is going to change anyway, and he does so sometime in the next 6 years, then maybe everything will be fine. I'm only basing my opinion on the last 18, but it's nice that you have that confidence in him that he can do it. I'd love to be able to hold that perspective from a position where I wasn't carrying the burden of him not doing so. I'd give him forever to change.
I suspect the problem is that I don't want to change my perspective. I don't want to be the W that looks the other way while her H is having an affair, though I'm sure there are many that do. I don't want to like parking lots instead of flowers. I've walked a long, hard road to get where I am, and I've whittled my concept of M down to the bare minimum of basic human courtesy and respect. I honestly don't care to change that. Not even for my M. I really do appreciate the time you've spent discussing it with me though.
