Oh...you are. You just got here right? We are all messes then. But you'll clean up well, I promise...well I promise as long as you put some work into it as well.
"I love you." It is not really recommmended to say.
Why is that you ask?
Michele, the wonderful lady who wrote the books says (paraphrasing here)
Saying, "I love you." Reminds them (the WAS/MLCer) that they don't love you. (At least right now, or they don't think they do...and lets face it. Not thinking they do...is the same thing right now as not.)
So...not a big fan of saying "I love you."
Especially if you are hoping they say it back.
Asking questions and making statements, expecting or wanting them to answer or respond in a certain way? Bad idea right now. VERY bad idea.
Try to avoid question you 'want' answers to. Or rather answers you hope they answer in a way you WANT to hear.
It REALLY hurts when they don't answer that way...and...it's your fault because you set yourself up for it.
perennial advice
sg Love is PATIENT, love is KIND, LOVE never fails / DB since 2001
Thank you to all who stopped by my thread. I have not posted in awhile, but I have been reading quite a bit - er, more than a bit - Snodderly, you were so right when you said that I was looking for the magic formula. I am trying to stop that.
I could sure use some advice now though.
I will back up a little - so, at BD a little over four months ago and for the next couple of months, my SO and I barely spoke and every conversation that we did have was gut wrenching. About two months later, I found out about the girlfriend. SO does not think this is an "affair" because we were never married (18 years together total, the last few years long distance). As far as I know, they are still dating.
Fast forward to now and I have actually met two of my goals - to re-establish the friendship to the point where he is comfortable spending time talking to me and spending time with me when I am in town. Those goals have actually been accomplished. Strictly following "Sandi's 37 Rules" (which is why I have to guess that he is still dating the OW because I never bring her up), our conversations have been good, almost to pre-BD levels. And he has agreed for us to spend the day together in a little over a week.
OK - now what is my problem then? I think I may have been too good a friend and faked my PMA a little too well.
His birthday is coming up. I know birthdays (and what to do) are very controversial topics around here but my plan was to send a funny card. So I did. Given that we are getting along great, it felt very wrong not to send it. I had not made up my mind as to whether or not I was going to call as well.
Since our phone conversations have been less frequent since BD, I really did not expect to hear from him before his birthday but to my surprise, he called late last night. I answered the phone not expecting it to be him.
The conversation went well and we spoke as two old friends (me, sticking to the Rules!). He asked about my plans for Saturday and said that he will call me after work - he wants to hear his birthday song from me. (Every year, especially since we have been apart, I have sang him Happy Birthday with weird accent or lyrics - I may not be the most affectionate monkey on the vine, but I might be the cheekiest...)I jokingly said that I may not sing one this year. Then he threatened to play back to me last year's song which apparently he saved on VM.
At the end of the conversation he said ILY. I said it back (180 for me!)
The last time we spoke about his birthday - his 40th for which I formerly had BIG plans - all dropped now - he said he barely wanted to acknowledge it. My card had no 40s on it.
Bloody hell, now he wants his song.
Here is my dilemma: If there was no "girlfriend", this would not be a tough decision for me. In the early days, I read one of Michelle's links which described a successful technique as being an unconditional friend during this hideous time and I decided to adopt that as my strategy. However, my concern is that I am still filling the emotional void that the OW cannot yet fill and that by filling that void, I make it easier for him to straddle the fence. I notice that when something goes wrong, either with his family or he's sick, I am the one he calls. Because what new girlfriend wants to hear the gory details? I get them all. I have no idea is he is even celebrating with her - to hear him talk they hardly ever see each other since he says he is working all the time or with his friends or family. But one peice of advice that I have taken to heart is to believe none of what he says.
The other concern I have when I measure up this action against the question: will this push him further away? is that he will cancel our day together. And I really don't know when I will be back in town again so this may be one of my last chances to spend some time with him.
I would love some advice. I am stressing over a birthday song. Sheesh. I just worry that if I am filling the void, OW will "get the credit" if he associates his happiness with her rather than with me.
If he does not call on Saturday, I am off the hook. But if he does....?
Portia, It appears that you are really conflicted about it and when people are this way, we suggest that you do nothing, sit quietly and the answers will come.
Me, personally, I wouldn't do the song. He's got last year's on his phone and he can replay that one if he needs to have one sung to him. You sent a card and that is enough. His ow can sing to him till the cows come home. The only way he will miss you and the things that you did for him is when you are not around. I wouldn't hold myself as an emotional hostage over this song...he may opt not to get together anyway. If your "friendship" truly means anything to him at all, he will not continue to bug you about the song and he will keep the plans that the two of you have made.
As for filling an emotional void for him...stop his cake eating. You are not his mother or shrink and he needs to learn to appreciate and have respect for you. Take back your respect and let this man go and find himself. He's definitely been straddling the fence and if his lips move, he's lying to you about the ow. The affair will not die a natural death until you set him completely free and she gets to hear all of the bloody, gory details of his life. Why should she only get the best part of the cake and you get the scraps?
Let him go, let God have him for a while.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
The only way he will miss you and the things that you did for him is when you are not around.
Yes. And that was the plan. I am a bit of a planner. I do not like to go into situations (especially ones where I am unsure) because I inevitably just cave. If he does call and asks, is your suggestion that I "just say no".
Originally Posted By: snodderly
As for filling an emotional void for him...stop his cake eating. You are not his mother or shrink and he needs to learn to appreciate and have respect for you. Take back your respect and let this man go and find himself. He's definitely been straddling the fence and if his lips move, he's lying to you about the ow. The affair will not die a natural death until you set him completely free and she gets to hear all of the bloody, gory details of his life. Why should she only get the best part of the cake and you get the scraps?
Thanks, I needed that. But the truth is I am still confused as to HOW to stop the cake eating in a real tangible sense. I do not intiate contact anymore. Mostly because I know he is lying about the OW.
I am not trying to be dense here, but I find that the more I read on here, the more I am confused about "solutions". The biggest problem in our relationship was my distance and unavailability - I don't want this to be "more of the same".
Maybe I just don't know how to say no and still keep the lines of communication open.
I had been wondering how things were going with you. Still in the trenches I see.
I have similar questions regarding cake-eating. I am trying to separate cake-eating from "living as is". The two seem to contradict each other and I have yet to wrap my head around the concepts.
Excuse my inexperience if the following suggestion goes against the db grain (but your sitch seems so unique due to your role in the R and your geographical distance too) but if you are being a "friend" to him only make limited contact as a "friend". I wouldn't expect my friends to listen to the gory details of MY sickness - if you wouldn't listen to your other friends in such a manner, wouldn't those rules apply to him as well?
Just a thought. Hope your day goes well.
Me 46 H 56 M 22 yrs S22, D20, Twin Ss18
You teach people how to treat you by what you allow. What you stop. And what you reinforce. ~~~~~~~ A lack of boundaries invites a lack of respect.
Portia, One of the things you can do is when he starts talking about the gory details, change the subject to something else. You would do that w/a regular friend if you didn't want to hear about it. It's not being nasty, but you do not need to listening to all of that stuff. I know you want to be available to him, but he can't miss you if you are his "ear" only when he wants to talk about that stuff.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Thank you for stopping by. Yes, in the trenches with a few body parts to spare!
Originally Posted By: mrsrjd
I have similar questions regarding cake-eating. I am trying to separate cake-eating from "living as is". The two seem to contradict each other and I have yet to wrap my head around the concepts.
Me too, obviously. I just cannot seem to find that balance (even when following the Rules) between the "light the path home" and cake-eating, especially when I was the distancer and that played a big part in our R's demise.
Originally Posted By: mrsrjd
Excuse my inexperience if the following suggestion goes against the db grain (but your sitch seems so unique due to your role in the R and your geographical distance too) but if you are being a "friend" to him only make limited contact as a "friend".
Thank you, I am trying this. Truth is my friends and I are a pretty no holds barred kinda bunch, so no topic is taboo. I guess my confusion comes in when he contacts me. So many are trying to get their SO's to contact them and talk about the past - mine loves the past and I am his best-est buddy.
The main question is supposed to be (according to the DR book): is what I am about to do going to push him further away? But in using that as my barometer sometimes, it seems like cake-eating is not only allowed, it is the thing to do.
Spit. So, I will take Snodderly's advice and "do nothing". Well, until I have to do something when he asks for his B-Day song.
I read one of Michelle's links which described a successful technique as being an unconditional friend during this hideous time and I decided to adopt that as my strategy.
Portia, wondering if you have a link to this technique you could share? I also am trying to balance DB principles that are tried and true with the concept "do what works". With whatever I do, I try to observe the results and document them here for other, wiser, DB'ers to comment. I just keep telling myself that time is my friend...And try to remain patient.
I would rather feel pain then never feel at all... Separated 3/2012 T 34 yrs M 27 yrs
Sorry I do not get to post very often. The reference I referred to wasn't a "technique" per se, but came from a letter written by a DBer. Here is the link: DB - While Spouse Decides
I hoped that worked.
It was the first thing that seemed like the right thing to do, but honestly, I am just not sure. Themore I read and the more advice I get or read, I go around in more circles.
Detaching seems like a fabulous concept to me right now. I am working on it. It is hard work.
When SO called that night, as he said he would, I did not answer the phone. I chose not to in order not to start a fight. Avoidant? Maybe. But I am trying to keep in mind that we are spending the day together next week.
I called SO that evening and got VM. I left a message. He called back. The conversation flowed well but we did not really talk about personal things. He did say that he hadn't listened to my message yet and did I sing? I simply said "no" and the subject was dropped.
We hung up on good terms.
Frankly, this whole thing turns my stomache. On the surface now, we are getting along well but are not back to pre-BD levels of contact (not even close). And, although he did not mention GF at all (in fact, if everything he said was true, he did not even see or hear from her), I know she is there. I know that I am not supposed to give her headspace, but let's be real - she is the elephant in the room. Especially because I keep waiting for the other shoe to drop and for him to tell me that he is moving in with her.
But, I am trying not to be a total pessimist. We do have a day together and I am going to make the most of it. Where things go after that, IDK. Once upon a time I may have had expectations that he would want to work things out, but I do not have that vibe at all now.
From BD to now, there has been actual progress in our relationship. However, it may be that we will be in a bit of a "holding pattern" which DR says in inevitable givent the MLC. But, I guess I will reassess after the visit.
Despite the impending visit, the truth is that I do not hold out much hope for us - the distance is a huge problem where once it did not matter (or at least it didn't seem to matter all that much.)
