Here is what keeps me there at least for now - MY WIFE IS THE BEST - I LOVE HER - SHE IS NOT HERSELF - SHE IS ILL - I think if the roles were reversed and I was acting like this - she would pray for me and BE MY LIGHTHOUSE - maybe I am wrong - but that's the kind of person she was.
i want to feel this again- with as much certainty as i did. today i wonder if i've been wrong about everything -
thanks for thoughtful reply- i think we can be one kind of happy within ourselves- but it takes anotehr person to take us to that other kind of happiness place. i just would like that back please- i'm a togetherness kind of gal -
it's not a "stone" like you describe. this think we feel - it's more like an incredible power that person has allowed you and should realize it's just that another human being has "let you in" to their life & heart - totally. nothing held back and loves you unqualifiedly for what and who you are.
yeah- nmaybe that creates an "obligation" of sorts to treat them with compassion- that's about it. just respect their heart - do your best to be kind. real scary! what is so scary? .
what the heck is such a burden about feeling like someone is open to you to such an extent that your happiness increases theirs? and your sorrow makes them weep for you?
i'd think your millstone sounds like something my h would say- i'm just weighing in from the other side .
Yes, they ARE responsible for THEIR words or actions (good or bad) towards us, I didn't say they weren't.
Responsibility is a two way street.
I am saying that WE are responsible for OUR reactions to their actions or words, both good and bad.
Yes, they can certainly add to our happiness, enhance it, but they can also challenge or take away that enhancement. But the core of our own personal happiness remains within OUR control, thus OUR responsibility...it is NOT their responsibility.
We can and should empathize with our mates, but empathy doesn't mean their problems, etc. take over our lives completely, that we take on the full responsibility for fixing their issues. That is called co-dependance.
Part of my W's mlc issues is that I placed too much of a burden on HER for MY happiness...ie, if she was unhappy, so was I. If she was unavailable for whatever reason, I "suffered". When she was depressed and not available, I was hurt and such, and she felt horrible that I was, adding to her depression, and starting a vicious circle. Her mlc has taught me the consequences of placing this burden on your loved one. This is the "stone" I was referring to.
She is responsible for the things she has said and done to me, the family, herself. As I am for mine.
She is responsible for making any amends, if she CHOOSES to. As I am for mine.
If she doesn't choose to repair the damage, that choice is her responsibility, BUT, I am responsible for how that affects me.
If I stay in poor me victim mode, it's not her problem or responsibility, it's mine.
If I learn, grow, recover and end up better than before, yup, it's mine, not hers.
I love my W dearly, therefore, I am not going to burden her with "making" me happy anymore. I will take care of that myself, giving her more space and energy to enhance, add to it, if she chooses.
If she doesn't choose, I will miss (and have missed) the enhancements, of course...but, I will use that space to meet my own needs.
I placed too much of a burden on HER for MY happiness...ie, if she was unhappy, so was I. If she was unavailable for whatever reason, I "suffered". When she was depressed and not available, I was hurt and such, and she felt horrible that I was, adding to her depression
I too was guilty of this personality, probably still am just not as strong, I'm learning everyday.
But, I had to learn that this was even a problem, because in our happy R this was a non-excitant issue. It was brought to surface once I felt the pull of separation, once I felt threatened and went into crazy, he has to love me, what's wrong with me mode!
Thank goodness for time, time to learn, heal, and grow!
The past can't be ahead of you in the future. You don't have to figure it all out, just pick a direction. What's next...I don't know but I can't wait!
sorry man- i had a bit of an insight yesterday about possibly having "not got" what you were getting at. i was totally off on a wrong tangent.
when i read what you said about your reaction to her feelings, etc.- i see myself too. mind you- part of me wants to say tho- that she chose you. that is what she wanted (at some point) - then it becomes a burden somehow. bad form.
he knew what I wanted from life/r & plunged in anyway- just because he gets to delude himself now and rewrite history- doesn't make it fact.
part of me feels that too. I do understand what you said and agree i can see it that way. I get accepting things for what they are- i think. i still get stuck with the bit of - if you are the person SHE CHOSE, knowing how you felt and how you "were" - what the heck? do they get to have the right to expect you to be someone-something different? is loving the way you did something you now have to change to please them? I'VE GOT THAT WRONG again, don't I??? i know i'm looking at this all from some unproductive angle-
How does one choose a human being to be with -knowing what and who they are- loving that about them - then get tired of it and burdened by the thing they sought and get to say, oh well, i'm done here - this is a bore now?.???
i thought (get the past tense) that love was taking what comes and making yourself adjust - no matter what. thick & thin? just my slant and my m.o. i've gotten used to things i never thought i could - i'm stuck here with the cheating & lying tho- don't think i want to get used to that. time to change the habit of a lifetime and trouble implementing it.
you know: good ole shakespeare - "love is not love which alters when alteration finds". i think i've been living in a stinking cheesy novel or something for the past 61 years. I do agree it's My outlook & me allowing it to do this to me.
i swear - i am trying to fight it best i can. i am not a victim- I am not quite as pholosophically "mature" about it as you. i think i've got some acceptance now- i am not railing with he why & how could he? junk. philosophically i am searching for some answer - i'm not even sure of the question.
maybe something like - do we all deserve to be loved for what and who we are- without having to primp up and try to be something we're not for someone else. (something "better")??? i've always just been me- i've always allowed h to be what he is- (i probably have not fully understood what he is - mores the pity)
I know i must be fighting the death of alot of fond notions i had about love, commitment, people - you name it. this thing is dragging down (trying to) & away allllll my beliefs I held dear- and i don't actually have stuff to replace them with.
you express it well- i can see my changed reactions. i can see i don't get so "wounded" and surprised. nothing seems to surprise me now- i feel a wave of sadness or "defeat" now & then- i feel insulted & want out- i don't do it tho. i am lousy at strategy- i can only manage to think i will endure til i can't any longer & i'll just go away. .
this morning i think maybe i've got the entire "thing" wrong- maybe he's just a man that cheats & lies and I never saw that side of him - (maybe what i loved was my own mental fabrication?) i am rooting around trying to figure out why he is in my life still and why i'm here. intellectually i think it's got to just end and disappear. apparently he's going to make that my job...
i know I am becoming more fortified (daily) emotionally & awaiting the day i wake up and feel no tie to hold me here at all -
thanks for the philosophising- it does help me form new philosophy & of course, i need to - work in progress
I know, right??? it's me too - thing is tho, for me anyway- this began to be "a problem" in our r when he quit smoking & began computer obsession & ow obsession - what the heck do i have here??? i don't know really -
maybe it's not mlc at all (when i read the blurb in book it seemed to fit to a T) - but i never did go inspect the cheating spouse part. maybe i've got it all wrong- have done everything wrong- and his lessening of hostility is just a guy doing exactly what the heck he wants.
REAL ISSUE THO- if he's cheated & lied forever (it would seem so- to one extent or another) what did i have that i even want back? i can't find it- more lies? a man who was soemthing i never knew & never saw & find unacceptible? how to winkle out the (what?) tie (caring? love? not sure) that still binds me- and just get the hell free of it and him
he was cranked out yesterday- snapped about something - and i realize how close to the very edge i am with patience with his bad treatment. i can endure it for my own agenda- but really- my heart turns off immediately. i don't want to hear it- i don't want to feel it - i do not feel hurt by it- i just turn off. i hate to see myself being soooo separate- i am becoming it tho.
i think he's mistaken in his course in life- i can't save him or change it- and i may not want to know about it at some point. much as i hate the thought of aloneness- i hate this separateness in my face-
oh well- it made me blue-ish last nite- but HUGE step forward here-h ave slept for last week at least without tv on all night to dull me into sleep- and have gotten enough sleep on my own- not even sleeping pill. thisi s huge- am hoping i've turned some corner - short of blasting out of here-
part of me hates to see me getting all barnacled up and scabbed over and not feeling it all for him. sorry to see him push me this damn far so that i probably can't get back - i have felt it with my mother. at some point the critical and hurtful crap they say gets you to a point where nothing surprises you- their delusional rants & fancies are just their own insanity (of a sort) and i don't feel the judgtement. it's sad and sad. either my life is full of people getting wacky all of a sudden - or what if it's me? i don't want to be the wacky one.
when i listen to myself say that out loud- that both significant relationships in my life are with tough & emotionally cold & unavailable (in any conventional way) people- i wonder if it's me? (certanly my choice of mate) or them. why does it seem important to know? i'd say so i don't think i'm crazy.
What I discovered, looking back, is that I did not always do this:
Quote:
I placed too much of a burden on HER for MY happiness...ie, if she was unhappy, so was I. If she was unavailable for whatever reason, I "suffered". When she was depressed and not available, I was hurt and such, and she felt horrible that I was, adding to her depression
I did not do this for many, many years of our R. I think it started around 2006 or so. I think it started when I was going through my own mid-life transition (I job I hated with Fortune 50 company, money issues, W's ongoing depression, etc). I believe that is when my "state" became enmeshed with hers, looking to her for validation that I was successful (if she was happy), thus, if she was unhappy, I was NOT successful. Through this site and the challenging questions and concepts put forth by the posters, especially the vets, this "attachment" was shown to be false.
You know the old slogan "Question Authority"? Well, I got on the "Question Everything, especially about myself" kick, like when I was young and in college...had a great professor (who was an excellent teacher as well) who would drop statements and let us digest, question, get emotional over, and slowly dissect whether the were rooted in reality, or pre-programming or just an assumption or, whatever. I found it freeing, and fun, though sometimes painful, examining everything about me and my life, W and hers, and so forth.
So in that spirit, take what works for you...
T^2
In the depths of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer. - Albert Camus
Uncertainty is the very condition which impels people to unfold their powers.-Eric Fromm
Nero- so I take it you had a B-day yesterday - I'll say this (because of your post on my thread) "here's to your first B-day on the way to becoming independent, and happily living your life, your way, for you and maybe that someone who deserves you''!
Your right, a lot of the suburban mom's here (my age) are short and tubby, with their mini vans, and kids in grammer school still. But, your right they look happy and talking about the holiday's.
Here I drive up to in my (gotta say hot car) to watch the TGing pageant my D18 helps out in, I step out with my new "life stinks" swagger so I'm gonna at least look good, wearing leggings w/boots, contacts, and make up. Nice change from frumpy married me, and I was hated.
It's like married mom's can see that I'm not in the ''happily married club'' anymore, so back the F up and do not talk to my H.
So do I hang out with my single friend who goes down town and hangs out at coffee bars talking to everyone she comes across because she's social butterfly? That's not me either!
I can't go back, not sure were I'm at, gonna look ahead I guess to what I want.
The past can't be ahead of you in the future. You don't have to figure it all out, just pick a direction. What's next...I don't know but I can't wait!
Hi Nero - You sound so lost, I love the limbo reference...that's exactly were I was a few weeks back, and I totally backslid right into H's traps of spew and confirmation that he's gonna stay an a$$.
I posted like crazy just to keep my crying jag, and mouth in some of control. I gave him an open to spew and feel in control over the sitch and me.
Please, don't loose your cool. Don't talk to him...it's too easy to be lured.
From my experience, limited as it is, when this passes (about a week or 2) you will come out of this feeling really empowered and ready to not care what the jerk is off to. It's like you butterfly into the new lighter you that doesn't even want to care.
That's where I'm at and it feels great to realize after some time in the day, I haven't even thought of him or his sh!t! Thoughts of moving on, looking forward to that one day when I will love again are getting stronger within me.
Now don't gather from this that I'm all together, far from it, I'm just a little lighter and it makes all the difference. I don't know where, what, when about anything, I just know I'm not in a fog today and I love it!
I'm reading some awesome archives here about women who went on with their lives, not even wanting their H's and that's when HE realizes what's really happening and begins to pursue them. ONe women was adamant that she doesn't love her H anymore but the advise given her was to let him try to heal the R. She was really against him, her thread ended without a conclusion. I could never see mine doing that, I see mine as taking the blow and feeling he deserved it!
I am reaching a point where I wouldn't want him back, not like this, not like he was, so what, dipped in chocolate maybe, lol! I have higher goals for myself, and deserver to be loved, and treated with kindness, as do you! I pray not to backslide again, I never want to cry for him again, we are better than this!
The past can't be ahead of you in the future. You don't have to figure it all out, just pick a direction. What's next...I don't know but I can't wait!
Now don't gather from this that I'm all together, far from it, I'm just a little lighter and it makes all the difference. I don't know where, what, when about anything, I just know I'm not in a fog today and I love it!
hiya- hey, "a little lighter" sure describes me today also. i swear- it's uncanny sometimes i come here and you echo what i'm feeling. i don't know a darn thing either- except my "fog" seems gone - mostly. my backsliding mainly consists of me agonizing in my brain or thinking in bed and it keeps me awake.
i am reminding myself continually to stfu (per t sq) and keep quiet. it's not as hard as it used to be - but alot of the time i find my brain's reaction is - "you're too tired to go there- you don't even care and there's nothing left to explain. it won't make a dent" - and it's what i honestly feel i guess- so I am finding it easier and easier to just not talk.
sometimes if i try to even think of a future- i get a bit panicked- thinking of it alone - ALLLLL ALONE - BUT THEN i try and remind myself how emotionally NOT there he's been for awhile- i guess i'll survive. (no real choice is there?) no one who will panic and jump out of bed if they get a call that i've been in an accident. that's kind of icky- but i try not to think of it.
took little sleeping pill last nite- so relatively normal (feeling) today.
today- i actually had a non-whining observation to make about me and my progress - i'm guessing it's alot of progress - since i don't feel awful all the time - and even feel a bit perky this a.m.
cool front came thru- so it's soo nice to not be sweating - yay.... i'm amazed to think how long i have felt awful from this sitch - years - how his actions, or non-actions have caused such pain. how oblivious to anyone's but his discomfort he is- etc...
when i consider how very very long-- he's allowed me to go around being such a fool - while he just lied & lied and said he was fine - i feel sorry to think of the waste (of both our time- life- love). i think i've maybe been having my own little mlc in response to the upheaval of my life. inever was one to sit around thinking what i wanted and needed to make me happy. i was alwasy happy feeling- and glad of it- but now, i find myself asking me do i want "this" forever- and so on.
like the lady you described- i don't think i love him in the same way as i did. i don't know if that's love dying altogether- i never ever thought it could - not true love. now i see it can be beaten to death (probably).
if you can't talk and be honest with each other tho- what the heck do you have"?? nothing and recipe for another disaster like this one. i am not running out the door- but i don't have hope about my sitch.
I've been doing my own thing and activities. - the other day he was commenting about my preferring a 3 year old to his company- something he's said fifty million times over our life. (tho, when asked seriously he's always said do what i want about having the kids around our house. ) so i've had them - babysat and enjoyed having them in my life in a signigficant way.
they all grew up hanging around here- cooking, arts & crafts, etc. I think my gal was (& is) just giving him more fuel for his fire - rather than adding to his interest. i cannot make the call- i am just about thru trying to figure and analyze his reactions & my actions. If i had an exciting expedition to the moon or a new business venture of my own - maybe that would peak his interest- being myself i don't think will.
It is sooooo easy to inspect myself and find bunches of things i could have done better or more righter. who is to say if it would have made any difference at all? i'm thinking maybe not. Like "saving" my sister from her alcoholism/self. could have done a million things different & better. in this sitch too - i have regret for every time i was unable to decipher the signs and info (scant & coded tho it was) and come up with the right thing. but i also don't think it was doable. if a worry wort - sensitive gal like me couldn't decipher it and get it rite- what hope would i have now? it would be forever more of the same- me trying and tryng and caring and for nothing.
HOWEVER - i'm getting better at shoving it out of my mind and not "making a decision" - or getting freaked out & pressured.
what will happen will happen i guess - there's kind of a release here in powerlessness and realizing it. maybe this is what it feels like when people can put it in the hands of God and feel okay with that. Maybe it's "giving up" - on the things you can't control or change. i don't know- I feel less embarassed by my failure than just "defeated " but okay with it.
i hopt i'm not just laying blame on other guy- BUT if someone doesn't love you enough to look inside you and them and find the ability to love or overlook or whatever - understand- then what the heck does anything matter??? if you are who you are - and they choose to see bad & put bad spin on - then it's just a black hole sucking you in, this business of thinking ANYTHING could have made a difference in the way they were going or heading.
REALLY- even if we work on our bad aspects- will perfection have anything at all (really) to do with whether they become un-blind to what they have? i think not-
don't know where that leaves us- i guess in the place everyone says of work on things about yourself you'd like to cahnge- not change FOR SOMEONE ELSE.
cripes - sorry - i'm rambling like mad - i'd better go sew soemthing . i didn't have a birthday by the way (i'm an aquarius) - the cake was just a generic one for someone's birthday in the bakery at our Publix - glommie big roses in icing- love that icing. disgust myself
anyway- you sound good too. we can do this- keep our traps shut- keep getting more emotionally scabbed over and hardened up a bit with regard to these guys.
today i'm only wondering about the future- not worrying- big diff. i'm going to try and hold that thought - everybody fingers crossed for a happy life huh?
i'm soooo used to being the guy making the feast for thanksgiving- i feel like it's a day off not having to think about it all. no silver to polish- yay- no cranberry sauce dish to find- yay- etc. only making stuffing. (tho will make a small feast for us here so we have leftovers foreer) - yay. I sure love to eat - gobble gobble (wel, oink really)
