Hello! 20 year marriage teetering... (part II)

[Wendylon]

I think for the kids' sake I'm leaning towards doing a "family" Christmas

As a child of divorced parents (the S started when I was 13), I hated family times. I remember a few 'fake' family Christmases. They felt like a tease and really artificial and tense. I knew that my father wished my mother would take him back. I'd feel angry with my mother and really sad that they couldn't get their act together. Since they seemed to get on, it seemed really selfish on my mother's part not to stay with my father. Every time we were together as a family it made me hope that they'd get back together but I'd feel low knowing that it was unlikely. I always felt worse after we'd all been together. It gave me a taste of how things could have been but weren't.

Even fairly recently, I was watching my mother and father walking down the street with my children and felt so sad that this was the only time that I'd ever seen them as grandparents together. I still miss out on them not being together. Usually, they are with their respective spouses and therefore not really that attentive or available to their grandchildren. My father's wife never had children and feels bitter about it so he tries to be sensitive to her feelings by not making his children/grandchildren too big a priority. (Or at least did--he has Alzheimer's now). My mother's latest husband is a full-time job. I still resent my parents for splitting up. My children miss out on having grandparents who can openly dote on them.

Make sure that your kids like the idea of a family Christmas before doing it for their sakes--especially if you'd rather not spend it with your W. If they do like the idea, make sure that it's not just because they think it will increase the chances of a reconciliation between you. Your children may be completely different from the way I felt but you can't take for granted that they'd prefer a family Christmas under the circumstances. Obviously, they'd love a true family Christmas but maybe not an effortful/artificial one.

[Soul.Searching]

This is something I'm torn on. H is living 2 hours away and I would like to have my children Christmas morning. If i do that, He has no where for the kids to open their presents, Unless he goes to another family members house to do it. His family have a Christmas party down here, so he can't take them up there and then be back here for that.
I don't know know if it would make this Christmas easier or harder. I think it would definitely make next Christmas harder though. I just don't know what would make it easier on the children.

[Arsene]

Thanks for sharing your experience Wendy. I never thought about it that way and now it's offering a new perspective. The way I saw it was that while I'm fighting to save my marriage, we should be keeping up appearances for the kid but you may be right about what expectations and let downs it creates. Definitely something to think about.

[AnotherStander]

A journaling update:

Since my "mini BD" on W about the holidays, she's been exceedingly nice to me. Not sure if that's the reason, but there's an obvious change in behavior. One night she was going to take D16 to get her nails done. I was at the gym when she got there but D16 decided to go shopping with friends instead. So W stayed with S9 and helped him get his homework done (a huge help to me) and hung around quite a while to chat after I got back. She also asked if there was anything else she could do to help. I think that's the first time I've heard that in months. And she was excited to show me some Jalapenos she had grown, she planted them in my yard (for me) before BD and forgot about them. I didn't even know they were there (I've got a lot of landscaping in back). She was so excited, even told D16 she wanted to show them to me. Interesting.

A side note- S9 pitches a fit when W tries to get him to do homework or brush his teeth or just about anything. He does not do that with me. I've always been the discipline in the house and W has given me tons of grief over it (about "yelling at the kids"). But you know what? When I ask them to do something, they do it and they do it without complaint. When W asks them they either don't do it or they pitch a huge fit about it. She has commented on this many times and acts perplexed by it. In my opinion it's because they know she will not discipline them for it but they know I will. Of course to W I'm the bad guy because I discipline them.

There is no such thing as a "soulmate" or and "only one", time and time again I see this proven right in front of me.

I agree, I think it's Jack that's fond of saying that "soulmate" is a bunch of crap Hollywood invented to sell movies. Steven Covey says love is a verb, it's a choice we make and I completely agree with him. Sure, puppy love may just "happen", but enduring love is something we have to choose to do and work at. "Soulmate" implies you can only truly love one person in your life and that's just bogus. You can CHOOSE to only love one person, but we all have the capacity to love whoever we want.

I will tell you now that even though she might be the ice queen right now my W is proof that anyone can thaw especially if we show a TRUE positive direction.

Thank you, that's definitely inspirational That's why I love this site, you're just not going to get this kind of hope and feedback anywhere else!

It is very motivating to see on here someone who is maintaining as well as you are.

Thank you, that's very nice of you! I do have my down days, but in general I feel really good about life and (thankfully) find myself thinking less and less about W as time goes on.

That's one thing that always makes me chuckle a bit though. You can think "wow, my sitch/spouse is completely nuts", but then you read a post on here and realize it's pretty common.

I read stuff on the MLC forum and think "wow, I'm really lucky I don't have to deal with that!" LOL! Some of those people are dealing with some truly evil aliens.

This is a challange. It's hard to make big decisions when what you think you want changes from day to day, week to week. It's what's got me in a bit of a halt right now.

Nothing wrong with that. Sometimes the best action is no action. It's that feeling that we always have to be doing something and pushing forward that gets us in trouble in our sitches.

As a child of divorced parents (the S started when I was 13), I hated family times. I remember a few 'fake' family Christmases. They felt like a tease and really artificial and tense. I knew that my father wished my mother would take him back. I'd feel angry with my mother and really sad that they couldn't get their act together.

Great post Wendylon!! I too was a child of divorced parents involving a WAW and what you said really resonated with me although I have to admit I had forgotten those feelings. You are quite right, I remember feeling angry/ sad/ confused over those holidays and trying to figure out what was going on with my parents, and the false hope that maybe they were getting back together because they seemed so chummy at times. Definitely something to consider.

This is something I'm torn on. H is living 2 hours away and I would like to have my children Christmas morning.

I would say do what's right for you and your kids and let H deal with his own sitch. If you don't want him there and he doesn't have some place to open presents with the kids, well that's his problem, not yours.

[7720]

I hear you on the disipline thing.Is s(9) angry with W and trying to punish her? I was the same way..I am Italian so my yelling does not mean much it is how we talk...it scares mid westerners though!...they listen and respect me...W has a hard time with them and lots of yelling now....D(11) is failing classes though and W response is well she will just have to take 5th grade over! I think the WAS loses a lot of respect from the kids when they make this move...it is hard to teach "responsibility" when you yourself are walking away from your responsibilities!
I think W is reacting to mini BD! lol...but don't get too cocky...
she could be doing the Charlie Brown thing waiting for you to want to kick the football...and then pull it away

[AnotherStander]

I'm really going to have to reach for something to post in my weekly update this time, just not much going on in my sitch.

Saw W a few times over the last week just during kid transfers and as usual we get along great when we're around each other. But no progress in the R. I think the last time we kissed was labor day which was also the last time we ML. Almost 3 months ago, wow! I think that's the longest I've gone without since I was in my 20's. Last hug was... over a month ago I think.

D18 was visiting this weekend and I had all of them at the store with me. W wanted to get D16 to take her to get her nails done. She met us at the store. I looked at W and felt nothing at all. No desire, no painful longing, no fluttery heart, just nothing. If we ever reconcile I can see it's going to take me a while to crank up the feelings again.

Is s(9) angry with W and trying to punish her?

Based on the conversations I've had with him he isn't mad at her at all. He's ADHD so he can be a handful. It's tough to keep him focused. Sometimes it requires a stern approach and W just isn't up for that. When his ADHD starts ramping up I can help him to refocus, but W just lets it escalate.

I think the WAS loses a lot of respect from the kids when they make this move...it is hard to teach "responsibility" when you yourself are walking away from your responsibilities!

Yes, exactly right. That's one of the reasons I always tell people to hold their ground and not move out, because the kids perceive the one that left as the irresponsible one. Some people let their spouse browbeat them into moving out when they hear things like "it's the only way our marriage will heal" when in fact they just want to have their cake (house) and eat it too. But the kids don't know/ understand the details, so when they see someone leave they think that person is the irresponsible one and even think they don't love them. If it's the LBS that leaves, the kids don't know the WAS "forced" them out, they just see them leaving home.

[Soul.Searching]

Wow, Now you have got me thinking AS, H was here the other day and I don't think I felt anything in that way. My energy instantly picked up and I was happy he was around but it was more of a friendly feeling. Can't believe I didn't pick up on that before.

That's what scares me with my kids. They just seem to have taken it a little too well. I have tried to talk to them but it's hard without pushing it. I'm worried about them keeping a lot bottled up.

How has your S9 seemed to be coping in general since BD? Does he verbalise much?

[7720]

I thought the same Soul...they were bottling it up and now it comes out in bursts...sometimes they yell at W and are very cold to her....When they are hear I say don't you miss your mom....don't you want to give her a call...and they say they miss who she used to be...not who she is now...but they will manifest in all ways..

[AnotherStander]

Well I spent Thanksgiving day alone, and I loved it, LOL! Flew some R/C planes, rode my motorcycles, called relatives and did some things around the house. The weather was beautiful and I just had a nice relaxing day.

W and I had previously negotiated for me to have the kids on Friday after Thanksgiving since I was out on holday, but then W took D18 and D16 Black Friday shopping ALL NIGHT, so I technically had them at my place but they slept until after 3 pm so it was kind of pointless! We had a nice dinner though.

I spent Saturday and today getting down the tons of Christmas stuff and setting up the inside and outside of the house. First time I've done it alone. I thought it might be depressing, but it wasn't at all. I had fun actually. I actually laughed out loud when I found a plaque the in-laws had made for us that says "Tis the season to be with family", oh the irony, haha! I put the stockings up EXCEPT for W's. I put hers in a pile of other Christmas stuff that's hers and gave it to her for her house. I have a feeling that's going to sting her a bit when she sees 4 stockings hanging over my fireplace instead of 5.

W took the kids on a horseback ride Saturday. I mentioned in the first thread that there is a guy that used to hang around us before BD and has still been hanging around W since. He's a suspected OM, but no evidence of it. D18 was showing me pics of the horses and lo and behold, there he is riding with them. VERY suspicious. So when W came by to pick up S9 last night I point blank asked her. Basically I just told her "Is something going on between you and OM? That's fine if there is, but I don't want you to feel like you have to sneak around about it. I would appreciate it if you would just be honest with me. I don't want to be the last to know." She assured me that he's just a friend and goes along on stuff like that because he's bored. I am not convinced she's being completely truthful, I suspect she is interested in him but he is not reciprocating. He's early 30's, so is much younger than her. And he loves kids, I'm sure he wants to have them and W cannot. I'm sure it's a deal-killer for him as far as a permanent R, but who knows what may be going on temporarily. Honestly I'm to the point that it doesn't really change anything about my attitude if she's having an EA or PA, because it's bound to happen sooner or later anyway as part of her quest for "happiness" (ha!)

Strangely, after the talk about OM, W paid me the first compliment I've heard in over 5 months from her. She said "The girls and I were talking about you earlier, your arms are getting so big from the weight lifting and you're so fit-looking, you look really good!" I was so shocked it was all I could do to mutter a "thank you".

In general I find myself thinking less and less about W each day, and when I do think about her it's more or less ambivalent thoughts. I'm very close to involuntarily dropping the rope. The thing is, I WANT to still be interested, but I don't feel it. I don't know if that makes sense, but basically I want to save the M for my kids, but I'm to the point where if the kids weren't in the picture I don't think I'd have any interest in reconciling. It's not that I feel angry, hurt, betrayed, etc. I'm just losing interest. I really didn't expect it to happen this fast.

Wow, Now you have got me thinking AS, H was here the other day and I don't think I felt anything in that way.

Frankly it's a good place to be, because it puts you in the position of feeling like you'll be fine whether you reconcile or not, right? And that's exactly where DB'ing is supposed to take us.

That's what scares me with my kids. They just seem to have taken it a little too well. I have tried to talk to them but it's hard without pushing it. I'm worried about them keeping a lot bottled up.

Keep tabs on two things- their grades and their behavior towards other kids and especially in school. If they're keeping it bottled up then it will show up in other ways. But if they're making good grades and staying well-behaved, then maybe they really are taking it OK. My kids are doing quite well, it helps I think that W and I don't ever fight and we've both continued supporting the kids.

How has your S9 seemed to be coping in general since BD? Does he verbalise much?

He was confused and upset at first and blamed himself. I talked to him a lot at first, but as time went on he needed it less and less. He is doing really well now. D16 is the one taking it the hardest, she really hates going back and forth between homes.

I thought the same Soul...they were bottling it up and now it comes out in bursts...sometimes they yell at W and are very cold to her....

Yeah, that's exactly it, it comes out in unexpected ways.

[subguy]

Wow AS I'm so happy for you. You have spent your time productively, healing and growing. So, whats the secret???

Man I smell an infomercial coming up lol.