Creating your own Closure

[Kimmerz]

Morning Folks....

Well I've been on the threads the past few days reading and posting with everyone else. It's been very helpful to look at other people's sitch's, and offer encouragement.

It's also helped me really look at things differently in my wn sitch. I read Accuray's first post and the last post he gave to Sweet briar. What he has to say is helping me with my work in forgiving my XH.

I think whats upsetting is that I didn't know it would be so hard. Can you forgive someone, yet never trust them again?

I'll be boldly honest. I want so much to let this go, so much to forgive, so much to at least mend some sort of decency between us for the sake of the girls. I feel I do it in baby steps, but then I get to thinking of the past and my wall goes up higher than it was before. AT the same time I completely understand that you have to move forward. Looking back after a while serves no purpose unless you want to remain bitter and angry all your live. I don't want that. Yet what I want will require me to bring down a wall, and it terrifies me.

REading Accuray's sitch and things he said to Sweet Briar really helped me to see possibly how XH could possibly be feeling towards me on and off in the past 18 months. It could be why he acts genuinely nice, yet nervous, acting like he wants to say something but can't find the words. I've seen him act that way before when he left and then came home the other two times.

He could be scared Im going to bash him over the head for being an A$$, because that is something I would do.

I think he and I both act like Feral Cats around eachother at times.

Very much something I need to think about. I guess Im finally looking over that cliff and have all my emotional garbage with me and ready to just throw it off into the canyon. I'll be honest. Im still sad he's with OW. He was my husband first, we created a family together, and we were friends living life together and raising our girls together. But I do understand breaking it off with the OP is hard. Especially in his case...he has his hands full I tell ya. Knowing the little I do, all the lessons he needs to learn from his actions are actively in his lap right now.

On ward and upward.

[job]

Kimmerz,
Maybe I'm one of millions, but I forgave my xh, but I would never trust him again. The trust issue I have w/him is not just the affair, but the way he acted out during his crisis. Once I saw that mirror image, I knew he would never be a part of my life again, because it was a very dark and ugly image and he didn't improve along the way and still remains stuck to this day. I look at my situation as my fingers being burnt on a hot stove, i.e., I'll continue to use the stove, but I won't touch the burner again.

I think what happens w/the mlcers is that once they get to a certain point and have settled down a bit, it is hard for them to trust us enough to come closer. They may be relating their behavior back to when they were young and what would happen to them when they acted out. So, yes, that is were I can see mlcers and spouses acting like feral cats, i.e., tiptoeing around one another and then periodically fighting for their respective turfs.

You've come a long way and I am glad to see that you continue to post and offer support to others.

[Kimmerz]

Thanks Snodderly,
That really helps me feel better about my feelings in regards to XH. Im not the only one experiencing this, so thanks for chiming in. It's the oddest range of emotions I've ever had in my life.

See that's how I feel about my XH. The way he's acted in his crisis, and really the past few years, I swear if I were to meet him today I wouldn't have a thing to do with him. It's the strangest feeling, to forgive, yet not trust. Still care, but not like them as people.

I do have to remind myself that you can forgive people, but that doesn't mean you have to be the best of friends or under eachother's armpit. I fully acknowledge XH will never be the person he was long ago, and from what I see really hasn't changed during all of this.

I really did get my chance to figure out what I wanted in a relationship. I do know for sure, I do want to be married. I do want a loving and healthy relationship. I want an emotionally mature man. Im done with the boys.

[LoisB]

Nothing about this is easy, is it?

Not sure I would recognize an emotionally mature man! I'm with ya on being done with boys.

Thanks for sharing your journey. I get so much from your postings.

Heather

[Kimmerz]

Hello all.. again.Kinda on a rant here, would love a little input to help me with my decision.

Im curious as to what people would think about this and could use a little guidance.

So it's almost been one year since XH has introduced the kids to the OW. The OW makes no effort to connect with these kids....still to this day! She remains in her very own world, never speaking to them or barely speaking to them when the girls are with their father. She refuses to do anything with them as a group when together and remains completely focused on XH. Yet when the girls cousin comes over she makes a point of talking alot with her.

Bil and SIL see and witness this. Apparently XH is oblivious to the girls NOT LIKING THIS WOMAN, OR IS IN SERIOUS DENIAL. Xh has not once talked to the girls about this woman, or why they're not comfortable with her. Or ask what they woul need from her or him to help them feel more welcome or comfortable. Not once.

WE opened up the discussion on handling the Holidays last night. I asked him if we were going strictly by the book on this one, or are we going to work together. Given strictly by the divorce rule book means they'd stay half of Xmas vacation with him. Xh says to me " I figured we wouldn't do it by the book because I know they don't like staying at the apartment when Im not here, even though they're always welcome".

The girls don't like hanging out there because THEY DON'T FEEL WELCOME IN OW'S PRESENCE. They feel like guests, hell not even guests. They feel like an inconvienence.

Given this has been going on for a year, I really want to tell XH that the girls don't want to be hanging around his place with just her there while he's at work because THEY DON'T FEEL COMFORTABLE AROUND HER. They feel like she doesn't want them around.

HE IS COMPLETELY OBLIVIOUS to what the girls see or feel in that situation. Which really makes sense because XH has always lived in a world where he sticks his head in the sand over important issues. If it's uncomfortable, but can be avoided, he will avoid at all costs. Even his own children.

Look guys, Im sorry but I know it's really hard for the kids in these situations. I really do. In my case, How XH introduced OW intp their life was horribly traumatic for them and the girls still have an underlying resentment. But based on Xh actions he seems to have the attitude of " look this is my life and I will do what I want to do. You have no choice but to accept it whether you like it or not".

I know children can be very stubborn in accepting the other person in a parent's life. But it really appears that OW has no desire to have anything to do with the girls, and really is jealous of the girls when they come over. Gee would you feel not welcome if the OP was purposely ignoring you, making a point of NOT talking to you, while she was hanging all over your father?

SIL has suggested many things to this OW in ways to try and connect with the girls. OW always has an excuse as to why she can't.

Ok I've ranted enough...my dilema is if I should very carefully bring this up to XH.

I would like to say something along the lines of " the girls don't like being at your place when you're not there because they don't feel completely welcome. It is not like it's their second home. They don't feel welcome by OW".

Yet I know that's nothing but opening a can of worms and just watering the little monster seed, and he will more than likely go into monster.

I swear.... history repeats itself. What he is doing is EXACTLY what his mother did to him time and time again with relationship after relationship. He never did like any of his mother's boyfriends and was forced to live with it because SHE WAS GOING TO DO WHAT SHE WAS GOING TO DO! I even witnessed it once years ago.Xh nearly lost his MIND. There was only one guy we all liked, and she dumped him like a hot potato.

I realize this is where Im behaving like a pursuer. My choice is to just listen to my kids bitch about their father and his OW all the time and he consistently tell me they're always welcome. He's said that to me before. "They're always welcome". I felt as if he was saying to me " OW is happy to take in the kids whether Im here or not if you ever need any help with them".

The woman's XH shoots my Xh in the flipping head, nearly kills him because of their AFFAIR THEY DENY, and she expects me to say "Oh other woman you're the baby sitter of the year!!".

I've ranted enough. XH is just trying to spin my a$$$ once again, that's all. This happens everytime. I can NEVER understand how on earth he can do such atrocities and then turn around and act like he's some wonderful father and XH. He's pulled this on me several times, acted so wonderful, helpful, and co parenting, all the while he was lying and stealing directly behind my back. When I called him on it, here comes monster trying to twist my words around and make me look like the fool and feel bad and be the person in the wrong.

I get caught up and have been hurt and horribly confused by this every time. I give credit to him and try very hard to think of him as a non manipulative caring man.

Im learning. Slowly but surely.

[job]

Kimmerz,
I've been thinking about the ow situation and how she does not involve herself in the lives of your girls when they are w/their father. I don't think she's jealous or resentful of them, but I do think that she thinks that if she doesn't interact w/them and is just plain rude and ignores them, the girls will not want to come over there to stay. She's a piece of work and the way she is going about w/her lack of initiatve and interaction just makes me think she has an ulterior motive by doing what she's doing.

You have to remember that there is a difference between your girls and their cousin. Your h isn't the cousin's father and that child will be going on and not visiting on a schedule. The ow doesn't have a gripe or concern about the cousin...your children, on the other hand, have visitation schedules, stay over night and yes, money is being paid out to support them...big difference in the way she's thinking. It's petty and rude, but that's the way she's playing the game.

If your xh isn't going by the book and he's content w/them only coming over when he's around, then I would go w/it. As for the ow, the more you try to discuss this issue w/him, the harder it's going to be for your girls. I do think he shares the discussions he has w/you w/the ow. You don't want to give her any more fuel for her fire. She knows exactly what she's doing.

I wouldn't have my children stay w/her when your xh isn't around. I wouldn't trust her and they are not her children and I'm sure she's not being very pleasant to them. I can't blame your girls...I wouldn't want to stay w/her either.

For now, sit quietly because he's not going to "hear" what you are trying to tell him. He's still in the fog of la la land and lust. The ow can do no wrong and it's going to take some time for that fog to clear up. The less you point out the flaws of the ow, the better.

If your girls don't want to go over there and stay, don't try to convince them otherwise as it will create more emotional distress on them, especially during the holidays. If the topic comes up again, you could gently tell him what the girls have shared, but allow him to broach the subject w/you first.

[LoisB]

I agree with Snodd, for what it's worth. I don't get the impression she is a warm fuzzy trying hard to embrace the girls into her life for the man she loves. Maybe this is a good thing? It's going to make things harder on H in terms of juggling--and maybe take pressure off you because you don't have to be the b---- by saying you don't want the girls with her. But,it does sound like OW is very manipulative and has an agenda--wouldn't trust her alone with the girls either. Will H respect your wishes that OW isn't alone with them?

Heather

[WenikiTiki]

Kimmerz!

Your situation is so far out of the norm that I REALLY am amazed at how well you have delt with it. I'm going to state the odvious: Your X has brain damage. He must.......

Or he is so deep down the denial river that he will never come back.

I would have a hard time with letting the girls anywhere OW.

You are doing very well under tough circumstances.

[kml]

He's brain damaged. Ask SIL to talk to him about the OW issues - he might hear it better from her than from you.

[Kimmerz]

Oh you guys!! Thank you so much! I feel like Im losing my mind today and I can't tell you how much it means to come here and get support! I wish we could all just get together in person, cause I really need to give out some hugs to everyone here!. Everyone here is my life line Honestly my closest friends really don't "get it" like everyon here does. But that's because they're not in this exact situation. It means so much to hear from you. I can't thank you enough!

MLCers are toxic people.

I have asked my SIL if she thinks XH is aware of just how his girls are being treated by OW. She looked at me and said she honestly could not tell or doesn't know. I asked her if BIL said anything about it and her response was " Oh no. You do not talk to XH about OW." Which indicated to me that BIL has tried to say something and XH gave out a little spew to him too!I do know BIL, SIL and myself all have the same question. If your girlfriend treats your children like that, there's something awfully wrong there.

I noticed XH has been very talkative and nice, yet as confusing as hell. Confusing as in he's telling D9 one thing, me the other and NOTHING to D13. Or He'll tell me one thing, and the girls nothing. WEll he just took one week vacation to stay home and game non stop for 7-8 days because of the new Wow Expansion. He's high! Higher than a kite! It's been a while since I've seen him on a really good high... and this one's a doozie. Avoiding reality in fantasy games is his drug of choice. The last expansion was 2-3 years ago. That might've been the last time I saw him temporarily happy. His other high and drug of choice is food binging, then feeling depressed he's overweight. When the gaming addiction came along, sex was about #3 or #4 on his list's of "highs". It used to be #1.

You guys I just don't know. I honestly thing XH is a narcissist at times. Other's I just think he's got bi polar disorder and serious mental health issues, not that narcissim isn't a mental health disorder. But I can say that XH is aware he does this. He knows he detatched from reality. And He's told me he doens't understand why he does the things he does.

Aside of whatever's wrong with him, I still have to deal with him. And I guess Im just still sore from the wounds. I know better than to allow his antics to get me in an uproar, but I just look at him and think " REALLY?"

What still makes me go bezerk is him literally acting like nothing is wrong, or everything that went down south as far as the fighting and divorce, and other woman, and damn near DYING, NEVER HAPPENED.

I really appreciate your advice. I never do push the girls to stay with XH. The routine is they stay with him every 2 weeks on his days off now. It's much easier. I don't want my girls around that woman, I just don't. Nobody does.

Good call Snodderly, I appreciate your scope on the alterior motive she possibly may have.