Again you have such a balanced and rational approach which is what is so needed in this emotionally fueled stage of our lives.
Thank you for continuously being s source of strength and rationale. Straight up, d@mn good advise for us all.
I admire you for it and appreciate it even more.
Busting.
TPS Me: 44 H: 42 M14 T17 S10 D7 10/10 H moves out after death of his father-same month 21/04/12 H is 'DONE' 04/05/12 OW/PA confirmed (rumors from 2010) July '14 H ends affair May '15 H moves back home
I sent the Thanksgiving/ Christmas email to W again yesterday afternoon because she never replied, I made an excuse for her ("I'm sending this again because it may not have gone through"). She did reply to it after a few hours. She mentioned that MIL had invited me to Thanksgiving and I was welcome to go along. Not sure if anyone remembers, but on our anniversary about a month ago I asked W what she wanted to do and she replied back "I don't know, it's all so weird right now." So I intentionally bounced that right back to her and told her I thought it would be too weird to go to MIL's for Thanksgiving as a family when we're not anymore, so I won't be going. She also said she'd like to have the kids on Christmas eve and then could bring them to my house after dinner which is fine with me, but then she said she wanted to come to my house with MIL on Christmas day to open presents and take pics. I replied back that I had assumed she would open presents with them at her house and I would do the same with them at my house. I also said "I don’t know about having it all at my house, I need to think about that." I'm really stumped on this one. On the one hand I'm not one bit interested in spending Christmas with W and MIL and I think W needs to understand that with S and D comes division, and that I won't put up with cake-eating (her version of cake-eating being that she wants to live separately but do everything as a family). I think that sitting in her house with her mom on Christmas day would be a real wake-up call that S and D are going to have a real impact on her life. But on the other hand it might be better for the kids to have W and MIL there for gift opening. Any thoughts?
Originally Posted By: rubytuesday
While it could end in reconciliation, divorce, friendship, it could also end with the realization that with all the work you have done yourself, that there may be a day when you don't want them back.
My biggest concern all along has been that I would move along and THEN W would want to come back. It's a real conundrum because most of the old timers here will tell you that you really do have to drop the rope and move on before the WAS considers returning, so in essence what they're saying is "you have to quit loving the WAS before they'll start loving you again." But then what LBS wants to open themselves up to the possibility of going through all that misery again? Once I turn that love off, do I really want to turn it back on again? It's a tough question.
Originally Posted By: bustingout
Again you have such a balanced and rational approach which is what is so needed in this emotionally fueled stage of our lives.
Thank you for continuously being s source of strength and rationale. Straight up, d@mn good advise for us all.
Thank you Busting, you are too kind And I want to clarify for those who are reading, I hope I don't make it sound like this comes easy to me because it doesn't. It's hard work, it's exhausting and it's stressful. It is on my mind constantly every single day. A lot of people around here say that DB'ing is the hardest work you will ever do and it is so true. Constant work- day after day, week after week, month after month. It would be easier if we knew we were doing it to save our marriages. But we're doing it simply for a chance at saving our M's! I think that's why I've largely shifted the focus to myself, it's easier to do this for me then it is for a slim chance of saving my M.
Thanks for bringing up the holidays as I am grappling with it right now myself...and I am sure we all are...What about the kids what do they want and have you taken in their feelings and thoughts? My kids really want me to go to Mil house but it is awkward as my inlaws are funding this whole thing...paying for my W to live and such....Our C thinks I should go for the kids sake..I just don't know..if I don't it will look like I am acting selfish.
I see what you are saying what if you don't want W back and she wants to come back....
"My biggest concern all along has been that I would move along and THEN W would want to come back. It's a real conundrum because most of the old timers here will tell you that you really do have to drop the rope and move on before the WAS considers returning, so in essence what they're saying is "you have to quit loving the WAS before they'll start loving you again." But then what LBS wants to open themselves up to the possibility of going through all that misery again? Once I turn that love off, do I really want to turn it back on again? It's a tough question."
Yeah, I guess you then become the WAS and they become the LBS. The thing is, after all this time DBing, you would know all the LBS tricks and would be very difficult to fool.
Freshman Class of 2012
M-49 W-42 1D-10 T 10 YEARS M 9 YEARS EA/MLC 07/2010 Separation 28/05/2012 PA confirmed 31/07/12 W Asked for D 31/07/12 D on and off the table since then
Yeah, I guess you then become the WAS and they become the LBS. The thing is, after all this time DBing, you would know all the LBS tricks and would be very difficult to fool.
It’s funny that you posted this because it’s exactly how I see some of the advice/techniques I read about on this board. Tricks designed to fool our partners.
Maybe we’d have a better chance at building a genuine and lasting relationship with our spouse just by being our new and better selves and leaving the tricks behind.
M: A really long time. Crisis: 5 years. She's still worth it.
Life is never made unbearable by circumstances, but only by lack of meaning and purpose. -Viktor Frankl
You are absolutely right FY. The thing is, a lot of it feels like a game. It's difficult to do it if you're not into playing games but the whole "act as if" and be mysterious and even PMA to a certain extent are all part of a big trick not only to "fool" your W into holding off for a bit (if not coming back) but to fool yourself into getting back up.
The thing is,these tools are just that. Tools meant to help us get out of a rut and become better people which in turn might get our S to reconsider their position. I guess if you fake your changes you are indeed playing a dishonest game but if your changes are real and lasting, then you have a chance at building a genuine and lasting relationship.
Cheers mate!
Freshman Class of 2012
M-49 W-42 1D-10 T 10 YEARS M 9 YEARS EA/MLC 07/2010 Separation 28/05/2012 PA confirmed 31/07/12 W Asked for D 31/07/12 D on and off the table since then
You are absolutely right FY. The thing is, a lot of it feels like a game. It's difficult to do it if you're not into playing games but the whole "act as if" and be mysterious and even PMA to a certain extent are all part of a big trick not only to "fool" your W into holding off for a bit (if not coming back) but to fool yourself into getting back up.
The thing is,these tools are just that. Tools meant to help us get out of a rut and become better people which in turn might get our S to reconsider their position. I guess if you fake your changes you are indeed playing a dishonest game but if your changes are real and lasting, then you have a chance at building a genuine and lasting relationship.
Cheers mate!
Well put Arsene. I'm not saying that I'm totaly against all gaming over here, just that much of it rubs me the wrong way. It not only seems dishonest as you say, but our spouses know us so well that they are likely to see right through any silly game anyway.
Just be my new self is my plan.
M: A really long time. Crisis: 5 years. She's still worth it.
Life is never made unbearable by circumstances, but only by lack of meaning and purpose. -Viktor Frankl
I couldn't quit thinking about this darned Christmas thing, so I had to send an email just so I could bring some closure to it and get back to work! Here's what I sent:
Quote:
This is just confusing to me, I guess we should sit down some time and discuss it. I don’t understand why you want to keep doing “family stuff” after you’ve left. It’s a while before Christmas, so we can figure that out later. I won’t be going at Thanksgiving though.
Before you start hitting me with 2x4's keep in mind that I'm ready to drop the rope. I see this as laying some groundwork for it.
Originally Posted By: 7720
What about the kids what do they want and have you taken in their feelings and thoughts?
Oh yes, absolutely! If not for the kids I would have just flat-out told her "no way". But there's a downside to constantly getting the "family" together, W and I have been together so much doing stuff for the kids that I really think it's hurting our sitch. She'll never have a chance to "miss" me (if she ever will) at this rate.
Originally Posted By: Arsene
Yeah, I guess you then become the WAS and they become the LBS. The thing is, after all this time DBing, you would know all the LBS tricks and would be very difficult to fool.
I don't think DB'ing is about tricks at all. If done properly, you transform yourself. I have done that, and I am better for it. I would LOVE to see my W go through a similar transformation. There are many 180's that she needs to do, but she has no incentive to do them because she doesn't think there's anything wrong with herself. Yes I would be able to recognize her DB'ing, but knowing what I know about DB'ing and how much work it is, she would gain my respect, admiration and love for putting forth that kind of effort to try and earn me back.
Originally Posted By: ForeverYoung
It’s funny that you posted this because it’s exactly how I see some of the advice/techniques I read about on this board. Tricks designed to fool our partners.
I have seen some people post what I would consider "tricks", like pretending to have a GF to hopefully bring your W back to her senses. But I would not consider that DB'ing. I can't think of anything in DR that I would consider a trick, in fact Michele warns that changes have to be permanent or the WAS will view them as tricks. She also warns that a WAS can see right through tricks and that it sets things back instead of improving things.
Originally Posted By: Arsene
The thing is,these tools are just that. Tools meant to help us get out of a rut and become better people which in turn might get our S to reconsider their position. I guess if you fake your changes you are indeed playing a dishonest game but if your changes are real and lasting, then you have a chance at building a genuine and lasting relationship.
AS, I just wanted to jump in your thread and say THANK YOU. You're clearly putting in the hard work of DB. The amount of time you spend helping others on this forum is truly amazing.
M34 W35 S5 S2 T10 M6 on/off over the years including her A Recently- Nov 2015 bomb Nov 2015-Feb 2016 Reconciling Feb bomb March-April Reconciling May - bomb Mid-May I tell her I'm done
About christmas, I've been thinking alot about it also. I will spend christmas eve with mother and family. She told me we could invite my X.
I would like for us to be all together for christmas, even though S may not be old enough to fully comprehend.
But I'm leaning towards not inviting her. She left. If we can't renconcile, then this will be the reality sooner or later anyway. I haven't dropped the rope. I still care for her. I would like for all of us to spend christmas eve toghether. I DON'T want to stay stuck in this uncertain place though.
Do you think it would be akward? That maybe you kids would pick up the tension? Or maybe there is not a lot of tension? I'm guessing your kids will have a good time regardless what you decide
Together for 8,5 years. S2 Interest in OM. She left 29.09.12 b/c we couldn't work things out. No signs of OM, not digging. Living in seperate homes, sharing custody.
And I want to clarify for those who are reading, I hope I don't make it sound like this comes easy to me because it doesn't. It's hard work, it's exhausting and it's stressful. It is on my mind constantly every single day. A lot of people around here say that DB'ing is the hardest work you will ever do and it is so true. Constant work- day after day, week after week, month after month. It would be easier if we knew we were doing it to save our marriages. But we're doing it simply for a 