He's Just Not That Into You

[mamabird]

It is so interesting how the universe gives us exactly what we need when we need it most. Today I was going through some old stuff, still trying to get organized from our move, and I found some programs from our wedding. We had chosen a few readings that our friends read during the ceremony. Here is the first one:

"Foundations of Marriage" by Regina Hill

Love, trust, and forgiveness are the foundations of marriage. In marriage, many days will bring happiness, while other days may be sad. But together, two hearts can overcome everything... In marriage, all of the moments won't be exciting or romantic, and sometimes worries and anxiety will be overwhelming. But together, two hearts that accept will find comfort together. Recollections of past joys, pains, and shared feelings will be the glue that holds everything together during even the worst and most insecure moments. Reaching out to each other as a firend, and becoming the confidant and companion that the other one needs, is the true magic and beauty of any two people together. It's inspiring in each other a dream or a feeling, and having faith in each other and not giving up... even when all the odds say to quit. It's allowing each other to be vulnerable, to be himself or herself, even when the opinions or thoughts aren't in total agreement or exactly what you'd like them to be. It's getting involved and showing interest in each other, really listening and being available, the way any best friend should be. Exactly three things need to be rememberd in a marriage if it is to be a mutual bond of sharing, caring and loving throughout life: love, trust and forgiveness.

[Breakdown]

That's gold.

We went to two weddings this summer and it's funny how things hit you different at different stages. When we originally said our vows, I didn't think much of them honestly, but after all our troubles and some self discovery, the vows we heard really hit home. I wish I had paid more attention to them then....and I wish my W paid more attention to them now.

[mamabird]

I left the program on the counter, wonder if H will even see it? I agree though - you don't even think about that stuff when you're getting married. It's all a lot of blah blah until you actually have to deal with it.

Here's my update on MC:
The therapist is not pro-marriage and is not a couples expert as far as I can tell. However, he was recommended by H's therapist so I feel like I need to defer to H on this one. H thought the guy understood his point of view. The way I see it, MC is better than no MC.

No surprises during the session. I told my version of the story at length. H said that he does not feel understood, does not feel heard, feels like it's a one way street. H said that he feels he has no good option. D is not a good option, staying with me is not a good option. Me moving back into the house was just one more way that I exert my will without taking his feelings into account.

At this point, MC made us stop and do the "mirroring" thing which seems very cliche but seriously, we need it. That was tough - using the example of me moving back in. The man threw me out of my own home and separated me from my children and there I was sitting there having to empathize with his feelings about it. MC said that if we could work on that, it would help. Our normal pattern is each one arguing their own side and no one listening.

H's takeaway is that he can never do anything right in my eyes. I told him I didn't mean to make him feel that way.

On the way home we talked more. H said that he can't help the way he feels. I said that he can definitely change his feelings about things if he wants to. H said that's pressure. H said he needs his "space." I asked him what that means. I don't understand what that means. H said, "How is it that we've been married for 11 years and you don't understand me?" As we all know, this is a classic mistake in perception, but it's one that he refuses to be enlightened on.

I still didn't really get a great idea of what his space means. When I tell him I feel punished because I have to sleep in the guest room, that's pressuring him. When I ask him for a hug that's pressuring him. Basically anytime I complain about anything that he wants to do that is not pro-relationship is pressuring him. But rubbing his back is not pressuring him - and you would think this would be the worst offense.

This is tough. I think I probably will have to get a DB coach to help me get the balance right. I told him that we're both in the R and I have my opinions too. So far, I don't know if he is thinking at all about how I might feel about any of this.

Now he's upstairs watching Breaking Bad (Season 1) on his computer. One of the only things we do together as a couple is watch TV together. Now he's watching something I wanted to watch, but he chooses to do it without me. I did tell him how I felt about that, that it would have been nice for us to watch it together. It's just one more thing we could have been doing to get things back on track. More of same, but with no intent to do anything differently, how can things change????

Any advice? I obviously don't want to pressure him but I'm not going to be a doormat either.

[2chiquitos]

Sending you lots of hugs. This must be what it feels like to swim upstream.

I can tell you that from our experience with the MC, we had deeper conversations on the drive home from the session than during the session. It took some drives (and sometimes me getting out of the car and walking home half way there!) to get to where we are now.

And we're not where I'd like us to be but we're a heck of a lot closer than when we started MC.

If I were to rate our marriage before MC from 1-10. I'd give it a 4. 10 is living together and committing to the relationship. Now i'd say a 7. So we're moving along. I hope that gives you some hope ;-)

[dorightman]

The "wanting space" and "feeling pressured" by you is the same in my sitch.
Also, the in-house separation and S doing there own thing is same.
I understand how you feel Regretful, it's tough feeling rejected everyday by your S.
It's also very challenging to detach and BD while living in the same house. I struggle with all of these things.
I think the MC is a good thing, and i would try to continue that with your H on a regular basis is possible. I know my W feels like that is the only place she feels safe to talk about our R, so it's really our last resort for any real communication. In time, alot of truth comes out of both of us. We have different goals, hers is to get to a place where I'm comfortable with a D and we can have one amicably .Mine is reconciliation. Our therapist is pro marriage, but deals with us from a neutral place so that we both feel safe.
I guess my only advice for now would be PATIENCE.

[scaredsilly]

I agree with NITC. Your H still has his walls up. It was almost a year before my H let me see any vulnerabilities from him. And it was only when I finally decided there was nothing I could do anymore to make it work.

Your H knows you are there if he wants you. He doesn't have to work on it.

I don't know what extent your support from friends and family is but is it possible for you to get more involved in activities GAL so you can focus less on him and more on things that can bring you happiness and satisfaction?

I also think he's taking the back rubs as confirmation that he can be remote and insensitive and still get penance from you. Just a thought.

[mamabird]

If I were to rate our marriage before MC from 1-10. I'd give it a 4. 10 is living together and committing to the relationship. Now i'd say a 7. So we're moving along. I hope that gives you some hope ;-)

Thanks Vero. It does give me some hope. I'd say we were at a 1 when this all started and now we're at about a 3 or 4. Not great but it's progress...

I guess my only advice for now would be PATIENCE.

Nail, I think that's about it. Not much else I can do except be there.

I don't know what extent your support from friends and family is but is it possible for you to get more involved in activities GAL so you can focus less on him and more on things that can bring you happiness and satisfaction?

Luckily, for GAL's sake, the crazy is just about to start. Thanksgiving, then S8's birthday, Hanukkah and Christmas. Plus a little cookie decorating party that I committed to do... I'll have plenty to worry about. I always take care of everything having to do with the holidays and I'm sure this year will be no exception. No surprise, right? I love Thanksgiving though and I'm so excited to be cooking it this year in my new house.

So, as if things weren't confusing enough, I was giving H his nightly back rub (I asked him if he wanted one and he said yes), and then I was ready to leave and he starts rubbing my foot with his leg. I asked him if that meant he wanted me to stay... yes... so of course one thing leads to another. It's been about 6 weeks now. Who knows what that was about, wonder if it had anything to do with the MC session or if it was just a coincidence? I didn't ask and I'm not assuming anything has changed.

[scaredsilly]

men connect through ML so i'm glad you had that connection. i think it's a positive.

but...no expectations!

good you have lots to occupy your thoughts and time over the holidays. i hope you enjoy them.

[Breakdown]

On the way home we talked more. H said that he can't help the way he feels. I said that he can definitely change his feelings about things if he wants to. H said that's pressure. H said he needs his "space." I asked him what that means. I don't understand what that means. H said, "How is it that we've been married for 11 years and you don't understand me?" As we all know, this is a classic mistake in perception, but it's one that he refuses to be enlightened on.

I'm going to side with your H on this, to a point. Feelings just are. There's no controlling them and they are his to have. What he does with them is another matter.

I'd encourage him to talk about his feelings. Peel back the onion here if you can, keep asking questions. Really listen. Really try to see it from his perspective.

I would interpret space to mean to pressure on the R. Just live in the moment, enjoy the little things, let the things that irritate you melt away. Just exist for a bit. This is a sucky time because we're all wanting progress so we feel like we must "do" something. But, you might have to do "nothing" to get there.

With that said, I worry about the comment a little because of the sitch with OW.

Your H knows you are there if he wants you. He doesn't have to work on it.

SS - this stings for me, as I think this may be why I'm stuck in my own M. Thanks for making the point.

[mamabird]

Woke up today feeling like we just need to "make room" for each other. So instead of banging on the door all the time, it's more like we open the door and invite each other in. MC said we both shut each other out, and it's ironic, bc H considers himself to be Mr. Empathy (yet he has had pretty much none towards me for a while).

Breakdown, that's all good advice you're giving. I hear others talking about "leaning back" and I think that's all I can do at this point. I do think the physical connection is helping a lot. I find it hard to hear that he doesn't want to be in R with me, but yet he tolerates or even encourages the physical closeness. Maybe that's just the difference between men and women.

As far as OW is concerned, I have expressed my view to him clearly and often, but I know there's not much I can do except be the better option. I know that in my own sitch, if H had just "made room for me" OM1 wouldn't have had the power over me that he had. Because, after all, nothing happened w OM1 other than just talking!

I am sure he's leaning on OW for support right now - we all need that person in our lives. I can't fault him for that, and honestly, it's ok with me to a point because I understand it so well. He needs to make the right choices though and I will continue to hold him accountable if he does not.