Searching, trying - still going, but how?

[Denver_2010]

Starsky - thanks for pointing me to pearlhrbr's thread. I will read it tonight.

Bond & Denver - thanks for your opinions. I agree - stats are just that and they don't really matter.

Denver - I would love for you to read my threads, but I write novels and don't want to put you through two years of drama. So I will take you up on your offer and give you as brief a summary as possible here and if you then want to reply, you can do so in my thread in Newcomers.

Pre-bomb, my M had become pretty bad - it was a SSM and we were living parallel paths in a very stressed-out existance. We are both over-achievers and got completely absorbed in the rat-race and took on too many financial responsibilities. I got pregnant 5 times in 4 years resulting in 2 miscarriages and 3 wonderful kids. Neither of our needs were being met - I accumulated a lot of resentment and anger and turned it towards my H and he, as a child of an abusive and alcoholic father was just too adept at avoiding conflict and keeping things in until he exploded and walked away.

He left when I was 6 weeks pregnant with our 3rd child, one week after we closed escrow and moved in to our new home and two days before Xmas in 2010. Two months before leaving he started an EA with a client, and three weeks after he left he joined a dating service. Less than a month into our separation he said he wanted a D ASAP claiming I had been abusive to him for all our marriage and he needed to leave for the sake of our kids. I asked him for some time and to go to counseling. He declined. Only twice since he left has he made comments about having doubts of his decision, only to immediately recant them. So practically speaking, he has not deviated from his position of wanting a D once.

When he left I immediately started counseling and working on myself. Even after I found out about his dating and EA / PA, I acted lovingly and kept an open door policy for him in our house. After some time, his cake-eating became too much and I started establishing boundaries. Since then, our R has been a roller coaster ride from hell. I admit that my angry, reactive nature is still an issue. In addition he intentionally triggers me to get a reaction and justify his behavior and relieve his guilt.

His R with OW is stronger than ever, even though she lives 300 miles away. She has two daughters and has also filed for D. H has told me she is second only to our kids, but a very close second and that she is not going anywhere. The main reason we have fought since he left, has been OW. He has exposed our young kids to his R, which infuriates me as well as my general jealousy of her.

He finally filed for D this September. Per his request, and very hesitantly, I agreed to a collaborative D process which we have not even started. I frankly don't see how it will work, but would love the financial savings. Our financial and custody differences are simply too great.

Finally, our financial situation is a fiasco and has added a lot of stress. We are on the verge of bankruptcy, have had to short-sale one condo, sold the house we bought before he left and are now left with a huge tax debt to the IRS for next year. He has made some questionable decisions that have put us further into debt, but that I have let him do so because I didn't want to rock the boat. In addition, when our S was born and seeing that he was not coming back, I decided to leave my 6-figure income job to stay at home with our three very young kids. I decided that no money was worth leaving them to be raised by a nanny after their father had left them. This is a sore topic between us and has affected our situation greatly. To top it all, he just got laid off on 9/11 and has now taken his severance $ and put it away in a separate account per the advice of his L.

So not really an easy situation, but I have to admit that I have not been able to detach (we see each other almost on a daily basis because of our temp custody arrangement) and I have not been a good DBer at all. I understand what my problems are and what I need to do, yet have not been able to control my emotions and drop the rope. I thought a couple of times I was becoming detached and felt strong. We would then become friendlier - he says he wants to be friends and good co-parents. I once again would get my hopes up with unrealistic expectations just to come crashing down and getting upset all over again.

I think this is as short as I can get it... Thanks again for your interest and if you have any advice for me - I'll be very grateful for it.

Thanks again for being a source of inspiration for me and so many others and keep up the good work!

Hey KG. I took your post off of my thread in piecing and quoted it here on your thread so that I could respond.

First off, don't sell yourself short. I am sure that you are an inspiration for many here on this board as well. Your strength in standing for your M for so long and under such circumstances is admirable.

I don't have a ton of time, so forgive me if I seem short. I think that I'm just going to give it to you straight.

You seem to already know what you need to do. Drop the rope and detach.

I agree.

Your H is NOT going to come back under the current circumstances. Nothing is going to change as long as OW is in the picture. That is the unfortunate truth that I feel that I have to say.

So what do you do? How do you go on with your life?

You drop the rope and detach. You need to internalize that your M to your H is over. It is. Maybe someday a new R can begin, but don't put your hopes in that. YOU NEED TO BEGIN TO LIVE LIFE AGAIN. For you, for your future... for your kids.

I don't even want to talk about how your H will respond or what effect it might have on your situation if you do truly let go. I don't want you to do it because it might cause your H to reconsider or doubt his choices. You need to do this for you.

1. Figure out how you are going to support yourself and your children. If you have to start looking for a new job, do it. You are a single mother now. That [censored], but again, it is reality.

2. Start putting yourself out there. Start dating. You don't have to look at anything seriously. Just go out and have fun. Enjoy some male company. There are lots of nice guys out there KG. Open yourself up to being treated nicely.

3. Stop letting your H's actions and words affect you. One of my favorite phrases of all time is "like water off a duck's back"... I said it to myself many times in the past 2 years.

- Your H is not treating you nicely. What he did was not nice. It violated his vows to be with you through good times and bad. He has committed infidelity. And he has put his family at risk with all of this debt and selfishness.

- WHY DO YOU CARE WHAT HE DOES OR SAYS??? Why do you let it hurt your feelings?

- I'm not saying that he wasn't a good guy when you met and married him... but he is NOT right now.

- Would you let a random stranger affect your mood, your actions, YOUR HAPPINESS? No... of course not. Treat your H as such because that is what he is now.

- Work towards being DONE with this... begin to look towards the future.

4. Go talk to an attorney if you haven't already. I find what your H has done with his severence pay morally reprehensible, and possibly illegal, considering your family's financial situation. Half of that money belongs to you. Half of everything that he has belongs to you. You should not be living in such fear while he goes about his business with OW... while he spends one red cent on OW.

- I would follow through with the D. I'm sorry to say that, and I don't say it very often here. You have been doing this for a long time and your H has shown no intention of changing the course he is on.

- I reiterate this point though... GET A LAWYER. There is a reason that your H wants to do a 'collaborative' divorce. It is because he has one in the background and he believes that he can get a much better deal if you don't have one. And he is right. I am a lawyer, and there is NO WAY that I would tell someone to go through this alone when the other side has an attorney.

- I will also point out that many states have provisions that the spouse who is better off financially has to pay for the other spouse's attorney. Go see one and they can tell you if that applies in your state. If not, I reiterate that what your H has hidden is half yours and can be used to pay for attorneys.

- I'm not sure about your tax situation, but look into the 'innocent spouse' exception to the tax code. I don't know if it will help you, but it is there to use under certain circumstances.

5. Despite all of it though... let the anger go. Do that for yourself. Anger is mostly a useless emotion. It is founded in the true emotion of 'hurt'. Letting this go and detaching will ease this.

------

It doesn't feel good to tell you all of the above KG. Especially coming from the perspective that I come from. I do believe that we can save our M's through this process. But sometimes we have to resort to just saving ourselves and letting the cards fall where they may. I did reach that point. And I was very lucky that that move did ultimately save my M. I do want to point out though that I did not get to the point of completing D paperwork with the intent that it would save my M. I was DONE. It was not a tactic. I want you to approach it that way too.

I am trying to give it to you straight. I know that it is scary. You will have to be strong and brave to move forward now. I believe that you are strong and brave though. And I believe that once you actually take that first step forward, that you will only become stronger, and braver.

My W wrote a song when she was gathering the strength and courage to leave me... it is called 'Get up and get moving'... I still don't like the song because of what it represents from my side. lol. But the jist of it is that she had to take that first step. That she could no longer sit there and hope that things would magically get better. She had to take the initiative... she had to get up and get moving.

I am telling you to do the same.

Denver

[keep_going]

Acc,

Thank you for your wonderful post. You have given me some really good insights and I agree with a lot of what you have said.

It does come through to me, however, that you are still far from detached from H and putting too much hope in reconciliation. He suspects you are putting on "your changes" as a show for him, so he does not trust them.

I gree with you. Every time I go dim on H, I feel better and more detached. A few times H has then started to reach out and act nice. I have felt strong enough to re-engage to try to rebuild a R based on friendship and trust (which is what my DB coach has said I need to do first). We start getting along very well and I then create certain expectations. H then either retreats, acts indifferent, selfishly or takes a step towards D. I get hurt and disappointed and react in anger. That is what happened last week.

I know completely misjudge my own strength and detachment level and set myself up for failure. After every backslide I realize that I am nowhere near ready to have a relationship of any type with my H as long as he is with OW and wanting to "be friends" with me.

I wasn't just recommending GAL in your case, I'm suggesting that you need some more intimate relationships.

You've had intimacy stolen from you by H's departure, and the void has not been backfilled and that's literally making you starve, which drives you to act in ways you otherwise would not.

If you and H were back together, and he was meeting your needs and making you feel loved, you wouldn't have anger issues.

I have been thinking about this lately. I do feel very lonely at times. My H fulfilled A LOT of needs - as a husband, best friend, co-parent, team-mate, business partner, etc. I know now that I was very co-dependent with him. I focused completely on my M and my job as a tool to achieve our joint goals in our M, losing myself and leaving behind many interests / activities / friendships.

Since I am not filling many of those needs elsewhere, I fear that I will revert to the same co-dependent behaviors. Also in my R with my kids. I don't want to become the single mom who completely pours her life and soul on her children, becoming overbearing and suffocating for them. I have seen some women like that and I don't want to end there.

So yes, I need to focus on renewing old friendships and establishing new ones. I have started reaching out, yet it's not something that comes naturally to me. I am the kind of person that prefers to have a few but very deep and meaningful friendships, rather than a large circle of rather superficial acquaintances.

In your case with a WAH, there are still some needs he can meet -- he can be respectful, he can be a provider, he can be a great co-parent. This is where your boundary enforcement comes into place.

Unfortunately my H is really not fullfilling ANY needs at this point. I don't consider him to be respectful and don't think I will be able to as long as he is with OW. He is not a good provider - on the contrary. He is resentful (and vocal) about having to support me because I chose to quit my job to take care of our kids when he left. He doesn't see any value in having me take care of them instead of a nanny. He'd rather I support myself.

He also says he wants "to be friends and good co-parents," yet he does not treat me like a friend and never shows any interest in anything related to me. Sure he is polite and sometimes even acts nice when we interact, but it is usually when he wants something from me or when he is about to do something selfish, as I find out later. Yet, he asks that I not think the worst of him.

On the other hand, his idea of co-parenting is asking me what kind of Gerber I give our S1 or telling me that our D4 was coughing all night. Sure this is nice, but there are more important aspects of co-parenting, like his continued exposure of his R with OW to my kids, fully knowing I am 100% against it. In addition, in two years he has not once shown any interest in having the same approach to explain our sitch to our kids and help them cope with our S and future D.

I do realize all of this has to do with MY expectations - and yes, as you and Scaredsilly have pointed out, it's all just hurt underneath my anger. It's something I had been working on with my C and I know the answer for now is to have ZERO expectations and continue to identify and work through my feelings without reacting to them.

Thanks again for your valuable insights - you have brought additional clarity in how I should be focusing my efforts.

(((acc)))

[keep_going]

Val,

Thanks for the great advice!

Instead of looking back the past two years or getting frustrated that there may be years still ahead.. just make it through the day.

Or make it a goal to make it through the next potential argument.

It will all add up and there will be a day when you look back and be surprised by just how much you have changed.

One day at a time, huh? Yes - break up the goal into small, specific steps...It does sound doable.

The Divorce process is ugly. I'm not sure if I suggested it to you - but what really helped me was knowing my own heart and acting accordingly.

For me, that meant VERY LITTLE communication with my XW. It meant keeping the conversations kind.. but short.
Because I knew I could not stop my pain.. I could only control how and when I expressed it.

Yes, my goal for this D process is to just rise above the gunk and act in a way that I can look at myself in the mirror and set an example for my kids. I like your idea of having as little communication about it as possible. It will be tricky, given that we are going the collaborative route, but I am still planning on relying heavily on my L.

So.. It's OKAY that you are hurt and angry.. you just need to figure out how to change the communication until you can handle it infront of your H. What do you think that looks like?

I think the best way to keep it peaceful for now is to limit communication to logistics. I am pretty good at not initiating, but I need to start ignoring texts or emails that H sends to bait me. I hope this is what you were asking here.

Val, thanks again for the advice. You acted with such class and courage during your own sitch and D... You have been a great example.

(((val)))

[keep_going]

Bug, JKS, Vero,

Thanks for the support ladies. You all sound so great and I know that you are NOT having a walk in the park right now. You all inspire me to keep trying and not giving up on myself.

I am sorry we are all going through tough times, but I am grateful that we have each other. We will come through to the other side as better women and better partners.

Linz1822,
Thank you for stopping by. I am glad that you find something useful from my own situation. I noticed you joined the board recently. I will stop by your thread and catch up on your situation and show my support. Keep reading as much as you can. There are amazing people here from whom you can learn a lot (proof of that is all the great folks who have been nice enough to help me out).

((((hugs to you all))))

[keep_going]

Denver,

Thanks again for your advice. I don't mind you being so direct, on the contrary, I appreciate it. I'd rather someone be honest and give me a dose of reality than sugar coat it for me.

I agree with much of what you say, but have a couple of things I'd like to expand on. (See my comments in bold below...)

YOU NEED TO BEGIN TO LIVE LIFE AGAIN. For you, for your future... for your kids.

I agree with you 100%. No if's or but's...

1. Figure out how you are going to support yourself and your children. If you have to start looking for a new job, do it. You are a single mother now. That [censored], but again, it is reality.

My kids are very, very young and I want to stay at home until S1 goes to kindergarten. My H made a very, very good living and I expect that he will find a comparable job. Obviously if I have to go back to work before then, I will, but my priority is my kids, even if I sacrifice my lifestyle for a few years. One of my biggest mistakes was to neglect my M and family because of work and I won't make the same mistake again. With my H leaving, everything changed and I cannot also leave and have a nanny raise our kids through these difficult times, specially at their age where they can't really comprehend a lot of what is going on.

I have retained a L and based on the laws of CA, I could receive not only child support but also alimony based on the length of our M. With that, I can afford to stay home for a few years. After that, I do plan to go back to work. I have done it all my life and I actually enjoy working very much.


2. Start putting yourself out there. Start dating. You don't have to look at anything seriously. Just go out and have fun. Enjoy some male company. There are lots of nice guys out there KG. Open yourself up to being treated nicely.

I realize that this is probably in my future somewhere down the road. Yet I am nowhere near ready for this - I just don't find it remotely appealing or feel emotionally ready - unfortunately I still love my H very much. On the other hand, I am still married and don't believe in dating while I am. I know this is very old-fashioned, but that is just part of my value system.

Yet, as per my exchange with Acc, I agree that I need to get some of my needs fulfilled and recognize the need to socialize more and establish deeper connections with friends and relatives that can help me feel better about myself.

3. Stop letting your H's actions and words affect you. One of my favorite phrases of all time is "like water off a duck's back"... I said it to myself many times in the past 2 years.

- Work towards being DONE with this... begin to look towards the future.

Yes - it's all about the elusive detachment... Intellectually I get it, I just need to be in control of my emotions. That's where DBing comes in - Going dim, GAL, acting as if until one day I can wake up and realize I am there. As I said, I have gone through periods where I get stronger and closer, but then set myself up with unrealistic expectations, backslide and fail.

- I would follow through with the D. I'm sorry to say that, and I don't say it very often here. You have been doing this for a long time and your H has shown no intention of changing the course he is on.

The D WILL happen. There is nothing I can do to stop it and am not trying to at this point. There is no question that this is what my H wants. We will do a collaborative process where both agree to forgo litigation. We each have our own lawyer (we have both already retained one). The four of us will then sit down and try to negotiate the terms together, which should save us some money. None of the negotiations have happened yet, I am waiting for H to take the initiative there.

The trick to the collaborative process is that if in the end we don't come to a full agreement, we both have to then hire new lawyers and start all over again with a traditional litigation process. So we could end up spending twice as much. I do hope we can come to an agreement, but based on H's actions and what he initially proposed to me last year, we are worlds apart in what each wants. So we'll see.

- I'm not sure about your tax situation, but look into the 'innocent spouse' exception to the tax code. I don't know if it will help you, but it is there to use under certain circumstances.

I had not heard about that exception, so thanks for suggesting it! I will talk to my accountant about it.

5. Despite all of it though... let the anger go. Do that for yourself. Anger is mostly a useless emotion. It is founded in the true emotion of 'hurt'. Letting this go and detaching will ease this.

This is my #1 goal. Nothing is more important right now than beating this beast. Everything in my life depends on it. I get it and I am working on it. I also realize this will be a lifelong process for me, and as bug pointed out - it's how I have dealt with my emotions all my life and it will take some time to get there. Yet I won't give up. I can't.


Sometimes we have to resort to just saving ourselves and letting the cards fall where they may.

I was DONE. It was not a tactic. I want you to approach it that way too.

And I believe that once you actually take that first step forward, that you will only become stronger, and braver.

Denver, I understand what you are saying. Yet, in your sitch it was easier to take that first step because YOU WERE DONE. Unfortunately, I don't feel that I am done, so it's harder for me to stop the inertia, to break the limbo and to take that first step forward. Yes, there is a lot of fear involved, but I think I understand you - I AM STUCK. I can accept that and I intellectually get that if I don't do something to break out of this rut, I can remain stuck forever.
Believe me - I want to not be stuck. I don't pray to have my M saved, I pray to have the strength and change and to stop caring and detaching.

I am trying and I will not stop doing so. I think it's going back to square one, to the basics. Focus on myself, detach, going dim, GAL...

Denver, Thanks again for your honesty and candor. I needed it and I will come back and re-read your post often to keep me motivated.

[Accuray]

KG,

You've got "thread tennis" going on here! Good for you for keeping it straight. I agreed with Denver's comments and felt the two of us saw the same things in many ways.

We start getting along very well and I then create certain expectations. H then either retreats, acts indifferent, selfishly or takes a step towards D. I get hurt and disappointed and react in anger. That is what happened last week.

Yeah, that's kind of classic pursuer/distancer. Did you read "The Solo Partner"? That book does an excellent job of explaining that dynamic. You are the pursuer, H is the distancer. When you stop pursuing, you create a void, and H will step in and be nice to you until you start pursuing again and then he distances. It's a painful cycle for you, as the pursuer, because it builds up hope and then yanks out the rug. Builds up hope and then yanks out the rug. I was stuck in that for months.

The very best advice I got was to literally stop trying. Take your eye off the ball if you will. When H moves back toward you, do *not* re-engage, stay aloof. Friendly, but aloof.

The simple act of "working on your relationship" puts pressure on H, and it is that pressure that he needs to escape by distancing. Take that pressure away and you make it safe to stay in your vicinity. Do that long enough and you can both find a comfortable equilibrium. In order to find the strength to stay aloof, however, you have to get your bucket filled elsewhere, and that's where your new relationships come in.

I have started reaching out, yet it's not something that comes naturally to me. I am the kind of person that prefers to have a few but very deep and meaningful friendships, rather than a large circle of rather superficial acquaintances.

That's me! Stop that, you're copying. I tend to get really close to my friends and take great enjoyment from them, but it's a tight circle. I was reading that there are two types of personalities in this regard, people who gain energy by meeting new people, and people who expend energy when meeting new people. I suspect we're both in the second category. You do have to get some irons in the fire however -- if there are other DB'ers that live near you, consider meeting them. Consider divorce support groups, consider recreational meetups. Consider volunteering. You and I probably forge friendships like people who enter a cold lake slowly versus running down the beach and diving in. Either way, eventually you're going to be swimming.

Getting some of these activities going REALLY HELPS to stop focusing on the relationship and give it room to evolve without doing anything about it. It's like planting a seed in the back yard and forgetting about it versus putting it in a flower pot under a grow light in your kitchen.

Remember, all deep friendships start out as superficial acquaintances, eventually they will either grow deeper or will become abandoned -- you can decide what path they take based on the fit.

Unfortunately my H is really not fullfilling ANY needs at this point. I don't consider him to be respectful and don't think I will be able to as long as he is with OW. He is not a good provider - on the contrary. He is resentful (and vocal) about having to support me because I chose to quit my job to take care of our kids when he left. He doesn't see any value in having me take care of them instead of a nanny. He'd rather I support myself.

He also says he wants "to be friends and good co-parents," yet he does not treat me like a friend and never shows any interest in anything related to me. Sure he is polite and sometimes even acts nice when we interact, but it is usually when he wants something from me or when he is about to do something selfish, as I find out later. Yet, he asks that I not think the worst of him.

On the other hand, his idea of co-parenting is asking me what kind of Gerber I give our S1 or telling me that our D4 was coughing all night. Sure this is nice, but there are more important aspects of co-parenting, like his continued exposure of his R with OW to my kids, fully knowing I am 100% against it. In addition, in two years he has not once shown any interest in having the same approach to explain our sitch to our kids and help them cope with our S and future D.

Doh! That's a lot of anger. You're not going to be able to wave a wand and make that go away. You've got to work through it. My DB coach me had me write a particularly venomous letter to W and say everything that I would want to say at my worst, but don't send it. I actually did that exercise and it was very cathartic.

This stuff is bottled up in you and it has to come out. I don't think you'll be successful if you fight it. It will come out by (1) releasing it, (2) surrendering to what you cannot control, (3) finding forgiveness for your own sake, and (4) filling your bucket elsewhere.

In my experience, if you can do (4) the other three tend to take care of themselves.

My kids are very, very young and I want to stay at home until S1 goes to kindergarten. My H made a very, very good living and I expect that he will find a comparable job. Obviously if I have to go back to work before then, I will, but my priority is my kids, even if I sacrifice my lifestyle for a few years. One of my biggest mistakes was to neglect my M and family because of work and I won't make the same mistake again. With my H leaving, everything changed and I cannot also leave and have a nanny raise our kids through these difficult times, specially at their age where they can't really comprehend a lot of what is going on.

I have retained a L and based on the laws of CA, I could receive not only child support but also alimony based on the length of our M. With that, I can afford to stay home for a few years. After that, I do plan to go back to work. I have done it all my life and I actually enjoy working very much.

KG, not "having a nanny raise your kids" is a noble goal. I insisted on that when my kids were very young, and having W stay home without any adult interaction or pride from her career was one of the factors that did us in, because she just wasn't wired like that. I have 3 kids, 13, 11, and 8. The 13 year old had almost no "nanny care", the 11 year old had some, and the 8 year old had quite a bit. I see no difference in their happiness, adjustment, academic achievement, etc. I know this is a controversial topic, but I would take a good, well adjusted, happy nanny over a stressed out, angry parent any day.

You said it above -- you "enjoy working very much". It's probably one of the things that defines you. You don't need to get into a 60 hour a week high paying executive job, you can compromise. Find something for 20 hours a week with people you enjoy working with. Despite the time away from the kids, the time you are with them may be better for all of you, because you will be more fulfilled overall. I'm not suggesting in any way that you're a bad parent -- I'm sure you're a *great* parent, but you're unhappy and you may need to make some sacrifices to get happier.

I just need to be in control of my emotions

I don't think that works very well. You can't control your emotions, you can try to control your reaction to your emotions, but that's a constant struggle, right? I think the better approach is to sneak up on your emotions from behind by changing the landscape.

The path to getting unstuck lies in forging new intimate relationships, because your intimacy needs to go somewhere. You need to be appreciated and valued by people you respect. You can find that by dating, as suggested by Denver, or through close friendships. Yes, it is difficult for people with personalities like ours. It takes work, and it consumes energy. Sometimes you have to push it when you'd rather sit on the couch and do nothing. That is a path out, however.

You can battle with your anger, you can try to control your emotions, you can try to "act as if" with H. I think you've tried all three of those things and are finding they keep leading you back to the same place. Take all that energy you've been exerting, drop the fight on those three fronts, and put it into new friends, KG, they will benefit at least as much as you will.

Accuray

[keep_going]

Thanks Acc for spending so much time here trying to help me. I really appreciate your input and take it to heart.

Re. the work issue - that's a tough one. We used to have a full time nanny until S1 was born and I understand your arguments about the benefits of having one and agree with you.

The difference in my case is that H and I are not together anymore. My kids don't come home to one household with two parents, they go back and forth between two households and two single parents. They are so young and more than ever need stable, secure and healthy attachments given our situation.

I see them struggling and I don't think I can put that responsibility on a nanny - heck it's hard enough for me. Many times they cannot even verbalize what they are going through, although they know things are not quite normal. My D5 is barely starting to realize that not having both parents living together is NOT the norm and I need to be there to help them verbalize and express what they are feeling. A nanny should not be the one dealing with that.

Part time work is also tough because I would need to earn enough to offset childcare costs for S1 and still make some additional money to make it worth it. Childcare in my area is very, very expensive. So I think I need to stick it out, work on becoming more patient, finding other ways to fulfill my needs and in a few years I can refocus on my career once again.

I agree with you 100% on needing to forge new intimate relationships. I have joined a couple of church-led support groups and am also initiating more play dates with moms that I feel I have some things in common. I have also spent some time today researching some of the local meetup groups in my area and I am going to give one or two a try. I will spend more time on this - I totally see how more and improved relationships and a wider support group will help me in all areas of my recovery and improve my sitch.

What I was doing was not working, so yes, it's time to try something new...

[keep_going]

BTW, I didn't mean to make it sound like it's a chore to be at home with my kids. I am so grateful to have the chance to do so. I was a workaholic and I am fully appreciative of this second chance that life has given me to connect with my kids and give them the time and attention they need (even if as a result of the painful loss of my M).

My role as a mom is one of the few fulfilling things in my life right now, I take pride in it and relish every moment I have with my little angels.

[Denver_2010]

Denver,

Thanks again for your advice. I don't mind you being so direct, on the contrary, I appreciate it. I'd rather someone be honest and give me a dose of reality than sugar coat it for me.

I agree with much of what you say, but have a couple of things I'd like to expand on. (See my comments in bold below...)

YOU NEED TO BEGIN TO LIVE LIFE AGAIN. For you, for your future... for your kids.

I agree with you 100%. No if's or but's...

1. Figure out how you are going to support yourself and your children. If you have to start looking for a new job, do it. You are a single mother now. That [censored], but again, it is reality.

My kids are very, very young and I want to stay at home until S1 goes to kindergarten. My H made a very, very good living and I expect that he will find a comparable job. Obviously if I have to go back to work before then, I will, but my priority is my kids, even if I sacrifice my lifestyle for a few years. One of my biggest mistakes was to neglect my M and family because of work and I won't make the same mistake again. With my H leaving, everything changed and I cannot also leave and have a nanny raise our kids through these difficult times, specially at their age where they can't really comprehend a lot of what is going on.

I have retained a L and based on the laws of CA, I could receive not only child support but also alimony based on the length of our M. With that, I can afford to stay home for a few years. After that, I do plan to go back to work. I have done it all my life and I actually enjoy working very much.


2. Start putting yourself out there. Start dating. You don't have to look at anything seriously. Just go out and have fun. Enjoy some male company. There are lots of nice guys out there KG. Open yourself up to being treated nicely.

I realize that this is probably in my future somewhere down the road. Yet I am nowhere near ready for this - I just don't find it remotely appealing or feel emotionally ready - unfortunately I still love my H very much. On the other hand, I am still married and don't believe in dating while I am. I know this is very old-fashioned, but that is just part of my value system.

Yet, as per my exchange with Acc, I agree that I need to get some of my needs fulfilled and recognize the need to socialize more and establish deeper connections with friends and relatives that can help me feel better about myself.

3. Stop letting your H's actions and words affect you. One of my favorite phrases of all time is "like water off a duck's back"... I said it to myself many times in the past 2 years.

- Work towards being DONE with this... begin to look towards the future.

Yes - it's all about the elusive detachment... Intellectually I get it, I just need to be in control of my emotions. That's where DBing comes in - Going dim, GAL, acting as if until one day I can wake up and realize I am there. As I said, I have gone through periods where I get stronger and closer, but then set myself up with unrealistic expectations, backslide and fail.

- I would follow through with the D. I'm sorry to say that, and I don't say it very often here. You have been doing this for a long time and your H has shown no intention of changing the course he is on.

The D WILL happen. There is nothing I can do to stop it and am not trying to at this point. There is no question that this is what my H wants. We will do a collaborative process where both agree to forgo litigation. We each have our own lawyer (we have both already retained one). The four of us will then sit down and try to negotiate the terms together, which should save us some money. None of the negotiations have happened yet, I am waiting for H to take the initiative there.

The trick to the collaborative process is that if in the end we don't come to a full agreement, we both have to then hire new lawyers and start all over again with a traditional litigation process. So we could end up spending twice as much. I do hope we can come to an agreement, but based on H's actions and what he initially proposed to me last year, we are worlds apart in what each wants. So we'll see.

- I'm not sure about your tax situation, but look into the 'innocent spouse' exception to the tax code. I don't know if it will help you, but it is there to use under certain circumstances.

I had not heard about that exception, so thanks for suggesting it! I will talk to my accountant about it.

5. Despite all of it though... let the anger go. Do that for yourself. Anger is mostly a useless emotion. It is founded in the true emotion of 'hurt'. Letting this go and detaching will ease this.

This is my #1 goal. Nothing is more important right now than beating this beast. Everything in my life depends on it. I get it and I am working on it. I also realize this will be a lifelong process for me, and as bug pointed out - it's how I have dealt with my emotions all my life and it will take some time to get there. Yet I won't give up. I can't.


Sometimes we have to resort to just saving ourselves and letting the cards fall where they may.

I was DONE. It was not a tactic. I want you to approach it that way too.

And I believe that once you actually take that first step forward, that you will only become stronger, and braver.

Denver, I understand what you are saying. Yet, in your sitch it was easier to take that first step because YOU WERE DONE. Unfortunately, I don't feel that I am done, so it's harder for me to stop the inertia, to break the limbo and to take that first step forward. Yes, there is a lot of fear involved, but I think I understand you - I AM STUCK. I can accept that and I intellectually get that if I don't do something to break out of this rut, I can remain stuck forever.
Believe me - I want to not be stuck. I don't pray to have my M saved, I pray to have the strength and change and to stop caring and detaching.

I am trying and I will not stop doing so. I think it's going back to square one, to the basics. Focus on myself, detach, going dim, GAL...

Denver, Thanks again for your honesty and candor. I needed it and I will come back and re-read your post often to keep me motivated.

You are welcome KG. Again, I commend you for how hard you have fought, and are still fighting, for your M. Regardless of the outcome, you will look back someday and be really proud of what you did during this time.

I completely get being 'stuck'. I was for a very long time. I think that becoming unstuck just takes time. It is different for each of us. It will come for you though. I also get that you are not DONE in the sense that I was when I did what I did. I get that. That also has to come in its own time.

Lastly, I am not trying to push you, or pressure you, into doing anything that you are not ready to do, ie, date etc. I am just trying to give you a nudge forward. I don't want to see anyone spend too much time in the limbo that I was in for so long... that I feel that you are in now.

I do believe that a whole new world will open up for you once you do begin to take those steps forward. And like in my sitch, you just never know what will happen.

[Arsene]

I don't pray to have my M saved, I pray to have the strength and change and to stop caring and detaching.

Hi KG,

I just caught up with your thread. As I'm sure you know, you are in very good hands with both Denver and Accuray.

This statement above is very powerful and it does show a change in your focus. I think that once you reach that point, the change is going to happen.

I also understand that you are not ready to date. I think it's very wise not to as well for the time being. This too will come in its own time and you'll be the first to know.

As Denver says, I think you know what you need to do, you just have to find the strength to do it.

Good luck to you. My thoughts are with you.