I never understand the fear of legally protecting yourself from a wayward in an active affair. If you tell someone that what they are doing is hurting you and that you want to work on the marriage but if they continue to do that then you will no longer be a part of the marriage.
You said your thoughts. They continue to hurt you. It is abuse. Plain and simple.
So you work hard and show them what they are losing. But they continue to have an active affair.
That protection could be legal separation or it could be filing for Divorce.
Divorces can be stopped when the paperwork has been put in. As can a legal separation. There is a great dissociation with reality here. So many people are afraid to legally protect themselves ( even when they are threatened with loss of children or finances )because it may make the wayward spouse angry. It may make them want to divorce you.
But it is their continued actions that are leading to the divorce or legal separation. IMHO it is foolish to not get yourself legally protected with rights to your children and finances. Knowing full well what your expenses will be or income. Getting checked out by the doctor for STD's or worse.
You can still do all this and be pro marriage.
Its like many people cling to that MLC issue. But they fail to realize that the people who delt in that set strong personal boundaries and moved on with their lives. They lived with structure in place. They healed and when the WS wanted to come back. They measured it and decided if the WS was actually worth dating again. Then they decided if the WS would actually work on their issues and make the marriage a priority. Then they worked for years and years to repair the marriage and make it safe for both of them with communication and boundaries.
If any of these Marriage sites had anything close to 100% success rate... heck even 50% success rate it would be published everywhere. But that is not the case. The majority of these marriages end in divorce. Some of them are saved. The majority of the saved ones end up having the same problem again in a few years because the LBS allowed the WS back too easy and did not work on the underlying problems. Same with the SSM marriages. Or the LBS did a little work and went on the LBS diet.. lost 30 pounds and called it a day and comes back here when their second marriage is failing. Michele has written some great books on how to DB but it has been warped on her forums to be a passive BS who should not enforce boundaries and sometimes that includes legal separation or divorce.
The concept that that the wayward spouse feels the betrayed spouse are a "given" in their lives and that they are the arbiter of whether the marriage survives should not be promoted. This is the 180 that has been forgotten. So its promoted to trap yourself.
IT does not matter who leaves first. It does not make their decision easy by protecting yourself legally. They still have to deal with the fallout. They have to deal with the memory of what they did to ruin the marriage.
When someone is cheating on you the goal should be from the moment of figuring it out is a path to being self-sufficient. Rebuilding self-esteem. Learning and understanding the Grief cycle and PTSD. Working yourself through them. And legally protecting yourself.
When they continue to cheat on you after you have asked them to stop and return the marriage and attempt to repair it. Well you have one choice to make. Remove yourself from their life.
The outcome of that is as follows. 1. You divorce a cheating spouse. 2. Your cheating spouse realizes that they made a mistake and work hard to repair the damage. But you decide if they are worth the effort.
The vast majority of LBS's did not abuse their spouses. Did not abuse substances. Most did not even know their marriage was in a downward spiral. They may have been guilty of working 60 hours a week and then catching up on choirs on the weekend. They may have been guilty of staying home and raising the children. They may have been guilty of not passing mind reading 101 and ESP 101. They just happened to be lucky to be married to a person who has poor boundaries around the opposite/same sex. Or they married someone with a cluster B personality disorder. Or they just drifted apart and lost how to communicate with each other.
Legally protecting yourself up to D. Should not be dismissed. It is not always the end like it is spoken about here. Just like saying wait it out is not the solution like it is spoken about here.
Flowers always make people better, happier, and more helpful; they are sunshine, food and medicine for the soul. unconditional love is awesome!
I never understand the fear of legally protecting yourself from a wayward in an active affair. If you tell someone that what they are doing is hurting you and that you want to work on the marriage but if they continue to do that then you will no longer be a part of the marriage.
You said your thoughts. They continue to hurt you. It is abuse. Plain and simple.
So you work hard and show them what they are losing. But they continue to have an active affair.
That protection could be legal separation or it could be filing for Divorce.
Divorces can be stopped when the paperwork has been put in. As can a legal separation. There is a great dissociation with reality here. So many people are afraid to legally protect themselves ( even when they are threatened with loss of children or finances )because it may make the wayward spouse angry. It may make them want to divorce you.
But it is their continued actions that are leading to the divorce or legal separation. IMHO it is foolish to not get yourself legally protected with rights to your children and finances. Knowing full well what your expenses will be or income. Getting checked out by the doctor for STD's or worse.
You can still do all this and be pro marriage.
Its like many people cling to that MLC issue. But they fail to realize that the people who delt in that set strong personal boundaries and moved on with their lives. They lived with structure in place. They healed and when the WS wanted to come back. They measured it and decided if the WS was actually worth dating again. Then they decided if the WS would actually work on their issues and make the marriage a priority. Then they worked for years and years to repair the marriage and make it safe for both of them with communication and boundaries.
If any of these Marriage sites had anything close to 100% success rate... heck even 50% success rate it would be published everywhere. But that is not the case. The majority of these marriages end in divorce. Some of them are saved. The majority of the saved ones end up having the same problem again in a few years because the LBS allowed the WS back too easy and did not work on the underlying problems. Same with the SSM marriages. Or the LBS did a little work and went on the LBS diet.. lost 30 pounds and called it a day and comes back here when their second marriage is failing. Michele has written some great books on how to DB but it has been warped on her forums to be a passive BS who should not enforce boundaries and sometimes that includes legal separation or divorce.
The concept that that the wayward spouse feels the betrayed spouse are a "given" in their lives and that they are the arbiter of whether the marriage survives should not be promoted. This is the 180 that has been forgotten. So its promoted to trap yourself.
IT does not matter who leaves first. It does not make their decision easy by protecting yourself legally. They still have to deal with the fallout. They have to deal with the memory of what they did to ruin the marriage.
When someone is cheating on you the goal should be from the moment of figuring it out is a path to being self-sufficient. Rebuilding self-esteem. Learning and understanding the Grief cycle and PTSD. Working yourself through them. And legally protecting yourself.
When they continue to cheat on you after you have asked them to stop and return the marriage and attempt to repair it. Well you have one choice to make. Remove yourself from their life.
The outcome of that is as follows. 1. You divorce a cheating spouse. 2. Your cheating spouse realizes that they made a mistake and work hard to repair the damage. But you decide if they are worth the effort.
The vast majority of LBS's did not abuse their spouses. Did not abuse substances. Most did not even know their marriage was in a downward spiral. They may have been guilty of working 60 hours a week and then catching up on choirs on the weekend. They may have been guilty of staying home and raising the children. They may have been guilty of not passing mind reading 101 and ESP 101. They just happened to be lucky to be married to a person who has poor boundaries around the opposite/same sex. Or they married someone with a cluster B personality disorder. Or they just drifted apart and lost how to communicate with each other.
Legally protecting yourself up to D. Should not be dismissed. It is not always the end like it is spoken about here. Just like saying wait it out is not the solution like it is spoken about here.
Wow. Where's the "standing ovation" emoticon??
This one's going into the archives. Awesome, awesome post!!!
Control is impossible Detach from the emotion of this Be your natural self Earn back your self-respect Assign responsibility equally Realize this process will improve you
Your bottom line about legally protecting yourself is a good point that should be taken into account related to the overall goal. And there are lots of ways of protecting yourself legally and still remaining easily negotiable and saving the marriage.
The DBer should FIRST determine their goal.
We should NOT tell someone what their goal should be and related actions should be decided on based on the DBers Goal.
You talk about statistics and 'the majoritiy' without basis. And about boundaries and follow through. Without respect to what the DBer themselves want and without knowledge about what may work for them except for your idea of what their goal should be to move forward on their own and enforce boundaries whether or not this saves the marriage.
DBing is quite the opposite.
First--the DBer determines the goal FOR THEMSELVES. Then--they break that goal up into smaller goals. Then--they work on the most likely outcome to achieve those goals Setting boundaries is AFTER the Last Resort Technique--meaning when all else fails and you are really really really ready to give up the marriage. In NO WAY is this an early on option for saving the marriage and in fact, it may well END THE MARRIAGE.
There are so many options to try first. Some are spelled out in DR and on this site.
At this point, we have come to an agreement on settlement papers. We will proofread and sign the agreement on the 20th of November. We are cordial, but she is still involved with the other man. She has no intention of ending the infidelity. I'm keeping to the 180 and preparing to move out at the end of the month. We agreed the separation started in July and so the divorce will occur in July of 2013.
I still wish I could save the marriage, but she is not trying at all. She went with him to a conference two weeks ago and to her college reunion. He has moved nearby and they see each other almost every day. I'm still her backup plan, as she tries every day to say it will be okay and be nice, but she shows no signs of coming back.
It's just a damned shame, but there is not much I can do if she won't come to her senses.
____________________________________ Me: 42 WW: 46 Married: 14y D-Day: 5/18/2012 D 12, S 8 Status: In my room, but A Continues
I don't really know, I guess my goal is now to move on and let her and the other man try really being together. I'm looking at moving out soon to an apartment before I get a home. She has shown no interest in repairing our marriage and only shows interest for the other man. She is in denial about it hurting our children and she has been rubbing the affair in my face. It just really hurts that she picked him over me. Not much more for me to do, unless anyone has any more ideas. I wish I had just gotten a trial separation agreement instead of listening to the lawyer on waiting until we had a settlement agreement. I wonder if they had to live together earlier, maybe they would be past the honeymoon phase now. November is six months past D-Day.
My marriage was the most important thing in my life. Now I have to make my kids my main purpose in life and start a new beginning. I'm proud of how they have held up and hope they can be strong, though I will be strong for them.
____________________________________ Me: 42 WW: 46 Married: 14y D-Day: 5/18/2012 D 12, S 8 Status: In my room, but A Continues
Your bottom line about legally protecting yourself is a good point that should be taken into account related to the overall goal. And there are lots of ways of protecting yourself legally and still remaining easily negotiable and saving the marriage.
The DBer should FIRST determine their goal.
We should NOT tell someone what their goal should be and related actions should be decided on based on the DBers Goal.
You talk about statistics and 'the majoritiy' without basis. And about boundaries and follow through. Without respect to what the DBer themselves want and without knowledge about what may work for them except for your idea of what their goal should be to move forward on their own and enforce boundaries whether or not this saves the marriage.
DBing is quite the opposite.
First--the DBer determines the goal FOR THEMSELVES. Then--they break that goal up into smaller goals. Then--they work on the most likely outcome to achieve those goals Setting boundaries is AFTER the Last Resort Technique--meaning when all else fails and you are really really really ready to give up the marriage. In NO WAY is this an early on option for saving the marriage and in fact, it may well END THE MARRIAGE.
There are so many options to try first. Some are spelled out in DR and on this site.
What other options are there to try first, if the WAS has moved out and has OS or is just sleeping around with anyone and everyone?
M: 29, H: 31 D: 9 S: 8 T: 13 Y M: 9 Y ILYBIDKIILWY 12/09/2012 ~~~~ Worrying does not empty tomorrow of its troubles. ~~~ it Emptys today of its strengths
