WAW seems to be making positive steps...whattodo?

[Crimson]

DM -

I got that same text, too - almost word for word. Good for your restraint, man. Over time, the little things add up to actual change. Keep it up.

Crimson

[AnotherStander]

Black and white as to adultery self serving...It's my belief. If expressing it seems self serving, or will drive her away I need to express differently or not at all.

People usually don't seek OP's for no reason. More often than not it's because there are problems in the M. So if your goal is to win your W back, then you've got to ask yourself what you contributed to driving her away and do 180's on those things. I'm certainly not applauding adultery, it disgusts me. But it usually is a symptom of other problems.

Why did I ask if she thought about kids feelings? To try to point out to her that she is placing R w/OM above R w/kids.

Deep inside she knows it and she feels guilty for it. But when you say that to her she's just going to blame you instead of herself. Right now she thinks everything is your fault, so you need to shut up, step back and give her the time and space it requires for her to realize she's the guilty party, not you.

(does R mean relationship or reconcile?)

Both (it can get confusing), but usually "relationship".

How can she believe these kids are feeling loved by her?

Focus on your R with your kids, not hers. That's for her to resolve, not you.

I will freely admit to being dense but when I KNOW I am hurting someone I love I STOP, at least temporarily until I forget again.

You don't get it. That's OK, few of us did in the beginning. Her logic and reason have checked out, they're on a beach in Hawaii somewhere. Her emotions are running the show. People who act purely on emotions are irrational, they do and say contradictory things. It makes no sense. Sound familiar?

The whole GAL thing I read about is totally unappealing right now. I don't want a life. I want a life with my wife.

Boy do I remember being there. But I did try it, and it was HARD WORK at first. But it got better and better. It really is the road to recovery, and it really is the best way to attract your spouse back.

The very thought of losing my wife scares me to death. I feel adrenaline surges many times each day.

Yeah, I had really bad anxiety too. Strangely not at first, but about a month after BD. I ended up getting med's for it. That helped a lot, and I only needed them temporarily.

How long must I detach? Eventually household finances will need to be discussed, as my income doesn't cover the bills.

Detaching doesn't mean cut off all communications. It just means to pull back and give her time and space. It's OK to talk about day-to-day logistics.

Will we ever talk about the relationship?

Only when she brings it up.

What should my goal be?

To be an amazing listener. Listen intently, nod, make eye contact, validate her emotions.

This all seems so PASSIVE...not my nature when dealing with problems.

It's not passive, it's just a different type of fighting. It's jujitsu. I can't remember where I copied it from, but this is great stuff:

When one person is wanting a divorce or is pulling away, and the other one doesn’t want it, there is a clash of wills.

There is tension.

There is stress.

So I’ve discovered the psychology of applying the jujitsu wrestling technique, where the wrestler uses the strength, energy and weight of his opponent to his own advantage, and to the disadvantage of his opponent.

We cannot get to the good feelings of your wife, husband or lover. We cannot get to those good feelings as long as this war is going on, as long as you communicate to her that you want something different from what she wants.

When the other person is pulling away from you or wanting a divorce or wanting separation, they are almost automatically on the opposite side of any fence that they perceive you as being on.

So use the jujitsu. Go with them.

Now here are five elements, five ideas, five strategies, all under the heading of the jujitsu technique.

1. Stop pressuring, stop criticizing, stop complaining, stop whining.

2. Agree with anything your mate says or does. Put a good name on it. Agree with their negative feelings.

You see, when the wife has a closed mind and is divorcing a husband, she is in love with her negative feelings. So she puts her negative feelings in charge of the door to her mind. And when you try to reason with her, you’re telling her that her negative feelings are wrong. That causes her negative feelings to lock the door tighter.

Agree with her negative feelings whatever they are.

Yes, this relationship is hopeless.

Yes, you will never be able to trust me. That’s exactly correct.

Do not defend yourself.

Just agree, sound sincere, and shut up.

3. Act perfectly happy about everything as it is.

The status quo as it is. Act perfectly happy. Enjoy your space. Enjoy your freedom. Tell them that they are correct that you all were getting too serious too fast or whatever their interpretation is that they’ve given to you. Agree with it, and act happy about whatever it is that they want.

4. Make them jealous. Play hard-to-get.

5. Do everything instantly and happily, one hundred percent your mate’s way.

[NickB]

^^^ This entire post by AS should be mandatory reading!

[Dm45]

End of day 3 without initiating contact.
She texted earlier this evening she would be depositing her paycheck, or much of it, in next few days.
Texted back "thanks, I'm teaching right now but am available later"
Her reply, "working very late, I'll contact you tomorrow"

[Dm45]

Lunchtime update:
Still refraining from initial contact.
7:33am
She texts: Could we meet this Saturday... With kids. ? Maybe get something to eat.
Me: driving..text in a few
8:07am
Me:Busy start @ work...like the idea. I'll have to get back to you in a bit. Sorry.
W:No worries. I'm busy, too...
Vote, yet? You know it makes me nervous to go vote!!
10:31am
Me: no vote yet. I have very little to no influence w/kids. Anything you think I could do to make things happen?
W: Just tell them we are going to get together for lunch/ dinner..
Me: Busy again...
10:54
Me: Do u mean tell them they have to go?
W: I guess not. Would just like to meet for lunch... With them.
11:15am
Me: How can I help, other than bullying them?
11:32am
W: Don't bully them.
Me: That's what I'm saying. I won't. Done that for a lot of their lives. Working on building relationships with them.
W: I need to work on fixing relationships and need to know that they will try because I am going to.
11:46am
Me: I believe they will. They are good people.
12:04pm
W: I know that they are😄

restraining myself from coaching her on fixing relationships. And from asking to repair ours as well, and from pursuing more conversation.

[Dm45]

25yearsmlc, any feedback for me on today's events, above?

[Dm45]

So back to my original thread...sorry for the detour.

I'm really trying to take the advice to heart and would like to get more feedback, especially re: following text conversation from today. I have not initiated contact for 5 days now. She initiated w/me after 2. Goes to show my fear that she wouldn't was unfounded. Also not pushing to talk R.

Anyway, here's the exchange, I'll summarize the small talk. I'd like to get input..am I starting to get it?

She started by texting me that she got pain shots in her neck, which has been excruciating since our ordeal started. Stress induced IMO. Asked her about pain, whether relieved yet,whether X-ray showed anything etc, general concern and empathy conversation.
Me: Any relief from shots yet?
W: Nope. Was numb-now hurts.Keeping ice on it. I'm working late again tonight.
Me: that stinks. How are u otherwise?
W: Sad.
Me: I'm sad that you're sad. Anything I can do?
W:I really don't know. Miss my children...
Me: they miss you.
W: I want to see them
Me: What do you want me to do?
W: ???
Me: I've talked to S20, and S17. Told them you said you wanted to work on fixing Rs but needed to know they would try. They said they would. Plan on talking to D17 too. What else can I do?
W: That's good. I cry all day every day without them. Then I get mad at you, because I needed someone to take care of me.
Me: Driving, just a sec
W: Ok
Me: I didn't take care of you in the way you need. Tell me more about that.
W: You sound like a shrink! [she sent emoticon here that did not come through] Busy. I'll talk to you tomorrow.
Me: That hurt. I'm being sincere. Your emoticon just a box so I really don't know how to take it.
W: Oh. Sorry. I put a silly face. It was a joke!!!
Me: Oh. Sorry. That's what I get for breaking D17's rule. Do want to hear more though. [D17 has a rule to never discuss nontrivial issues over text. Wise girl but it's all I got right now...]
W: Ok we will talk.

End. I think I did some 180s there? Not as forceful as I am known to be? Let her bring up the R stuff, validated, attempted mirroring.

Thoughts?

[Dm45]

Pasting Reply from AnotherStander

Please stick with your other thread until it hits 100 posts, then start a new one. It's hard to track your sitch and what advise has been discussed if you have multiple threads. Regarding the above:

What do you want me to do?

You're trying to fix her problems. Stop doing that. The idea of giving her time and space is so that she can work through her issues on her own.

I've talked to S20, and S17. Told them you said you wanted to work on fixing Rs but needed to know they would try. They said they would. Plan on talking to D17 too. What else can I do?

You're trying to control things. Stop. Butt out. She needs to resolve her relationship issues with the kids and with you, and she needs to do it on her own.

I didn't take care of you in the way you need. Tell me more about that.

That's an R talk. Don't ever initiate R talks!

20. All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while).

I think I did some 180s there? Not as forceful as I am known to be? Let her bring up the R stuff, validated, attempted mirroring.

Can you explain what 180's you think you did here? She didn't bring up R stuff, YOU did. I see no validation or mirroring either unless you're talking about "I'm sad that you're sad." But that's not validation, validation would be asking her why she feels sad and telling her things like "I can tell you're sad, I understand why you feel that way." Don't imply that her emotions drive your emotions, that you feel a certain way because she does.

[Dm45]

That's an R talk. Don't ever initiate R talks!

Wasn't it a validation of her emotion? This is one of her biggest complaints. ((Me not taking care of her) Shouldn't I validate, and didn't I use mirroring (from turtle web site)??? And didnt she bring it up when she told be she was angry I didnt take care of her? I'm so confused!

Can you explain what 180's you think you did here? She didn't bring up R stuff, YOU did. I see no validation or mirroring either unless you're talking about "I'm sad that you're sad." But that's not validation, validation would be asking her why she feels sad and telling her things like "I can tell you're sad, I understand why you feel that way." Don't imply that her emotions drive your emotions, that you feel a certain way because she does.

I thought she brought up the R, or her emotions, when she told me about her anger toward me.

I also thought I was doing 180's when, after she brought up missing the kids, I offered help rather than telling her what she needed to do, as in past conversations above.

Also, expressing care about her emotions I was attempting to 180, as I believe one of my offenses has been devaluing her emotions and opinions.

I get what your saying about asking why she's sad, though, then agreeing I'd feel sad too.

[25yearsmlc]

So back to my original thread...sorry for the detour.

I'm really trying to take the advice to heart and would like to get more feedback, especially re: following text conversation from today. I have not initiated contact for 5 days now. She initiated w/me after 2. Goes to show my fear that she wouldn't was unfounded. Also not pushing to talk R.

Good....take that in.


Anyway, here's the exchange, I'll summarize the small talk. I'd like to get input..am I starting to get it?

She started by texting me that she got pain shots in her neck, which has been excruciating since our ordeal started. Stress induced IMO.

Okay, enough of your analysis of HER problems...way too much of your posts are all about HER (and how you want to react to her differently, which is still all about HER).

What are YOU Doing to be a better happier man? More relaxed and easy to be around, for instance. Anything?

Asked her about pain, whether relieved yet,whether X-ray showed anything etc, general concern and empathy conversation.
Me: Any relief from shots yet?
W: Nope. Was numb-now hurts.Keeping ice on it. I'm working late again tonight.
Me: that stinks. How are u otherwise?
W: Sad.
Me: I'm sad that you're sad. Anything I can do?
W:I really don't know. Miss my children...
Me: they miss you.
W: I want to see them
Me: What do you want me to do?
W: ???
Me: I've talked to S20, and S17. Told them you said you wanted to work on fixing Rs but needed to know they would try. They said they would. Plan on talking to D17 too. What else can I do?
W: That's good. I cry all day every day without them. Then I get mad at you, because I needed someone to take care of me.
Me: Driving, just a sec
W: Ok
Me: I didn't take care of you in the way you need. Tell me more about that.GOOD.

W: You sound like a shrink! [she sent emoticon here that did not come through] Busy. I'll talk to you tomorrow.
Me: That hurt. I'm being sincere. Your emoticon just a box so I really don't know how to take it.
W: Oh. Sorry. I put a silly face. It was a joke!!!
Me: Oh. Sorry. That's what I get for breaking D17's rule. Do want to hear more though. [D17 has a rule to never discuss nontrivial issues over text. Wise girl but it's all I got right now...]
W: Ok we will talk.

End. I think I did some 180s there? Not as forceful as I am known to be? Let her bring up the R stuff, validated, attempted mirroring.

Thoughts?

Much better. Don't push for the R talk anymore now. Let her. And open the doors to the kids.

Teach them forgiveness. It's SO annoys me that they are such pressure points and pawns for you in your sitch (it gives you the power and you seem to relish that AND it's not fair. I don't believe they have any insights into how unfair and imbalanced thigns were within your marriage BEFORE OM.....

you are not being held accountable for how you mistreated your wife. Though it's not the kids business as a h to his w, you are letting HER transgressions take the full brunt. I simply don't believe they'd ONLY punish HER for this if they had the whole story. So I guess I don't buy that they have the whole story.


Have you taught your daughters that it's how THEY should be treated?

Think hard about that. IF you want, keep the answer to yourself but-

imagine them being married to someone who treated them the way you treated your wife, for years...

how's it look from the viewpoint of a father?