Just a quick quip from purgatory

[AJM]

I struggle greatest here. I've read so many books and forum threads and websites and everything she does is right in line with MLC. Knowing what she's doing, what she's saying, doesn't make it easier to hear or see. I feel as though if I were wrong, then hearts wouldn't come out for me, that my kids wouldn't be upset with their mom. So I believe I'm right in most of my actions and that belief is probably veiled in my speech towards my W and I know that it doesn't help anybody. I guess I feel as though it's all I have to keep me from dropping into despair.

You are still really honed in on being "right". Does that make sense to you? Is it helping? I'm not suggesting you be wrong or admit being wrong. Not at all. I'm also aware you're trying to figure out what happened. The autopsy so to speak. Likely so you don't make the same choices in the future. We're human after all But right or wrong is not terribly important in the scheme of things, ya know?

Yes - I had what I would call an MLC moment that lasted a few weeks about a year before my W went all in. I still remember the feelings I had, how easy it was to be angry or upset. The difference between my W and I is as simple as Yin and Yang. I seek internally for conflict resolution and my W seeks resolution through the acceptance of others. I've pondered those thoughts over the past few years and I don't believe I'm far off. I can see how I personally played a role in perpetuating my situation.

Of course you played a role. Everyone is but an actor, right? But you did NOT cause it. Her choices are her choices. You didn't make her make those choices. I think it's time you forgive yourself for your part, RT.

Any idea what you needed to figure out to bring you out of the MLC episode? What caused it?

I wake up everyday trying to keep to my changes and its made all the harder right now with these looming feelings of anger, humiliation and loneliness

Anger I get. Loneliness I get. But humiliation? What is it exactly you have to be humiliated about? I mean, we've all been through this and are in some stage of it. What is it you have to be humiliated about? Nobody is immune from it. Believe me. I've made a study of it lately and can honestly tell you, you may not have noticed it before, but this is not that uncommon in our society. Wish it was. Humility is something you may want to explore a bit more. What is the root of that? Is it the fear of loneliness? The emotions you have roiling about? ??

What motivates you to keep the changes, RT?

I want to feel what needs to be felt so I can move on since I can't completely disappear like I truly want too.

Can you say more about this? What do you mean disappear? I know what it meant to me, but I'm curious what it means to you.

I know I have to move on if I'm going to get over this and I know I'm afraid too.

Good. Then you know a fear you have to overcome, right?

MLC or not, the actions and choices are clear, are they not? It's clear that your choice is your choice and her choice is her choice. The rest is emotions and hanging on to what you want things to be like from what I see.

As for your parenting - you do realize that the more you let her influence your parenting the more it will become difficult for you to parent, right? You'll get confused and be wishy washy. Inconsistent.

You gave something to your kids that nobody else could - stability and love. Don't lose that. Nobody can take that from you. You can give it away, but nobody can take it.

All in all RT, I think you are really making progress even if it does not feel like it. Even though it hurts and you don't like it. Keep working through it. Keep stepping because there's more to figure out for you.

I can tell you that nobody is immune from this type of thing. We are all infected by "life" and being human.

Your ex paid you a compliment and I suspect it felt like it stung. But it says a lot about you and the kind of person and father you are. You should take note of that and you should realize it has little to do with you that she left or that she is angry toward you. You are the closest to her and she is able to be angry at you for as long as you let her. You'll see that in more detail later.

Oh. I know a lot of people that met somebody that was "the one". That person left or otherwise it did not work out. They later found something better. Much much better. Don't go looking of course. But you'll see later that it doesn't work like that unless you make it that way. Until you have let go of the baggage, it's not really possible to have a better relationship; so you have plenty of time and experiences before that

GLYASDI,

AJ

[RoofTop]

Just a quick note...

Quote:
I want to feel what needs to be felt so I can move on since I can't completely disappear like I truly want too.
Can you say more about this? What do you mean disappear? I know what it meant to me, but I'm curious what it means to you.

There's a job opening up over sea's for the company I currently work for. I've had some offers from people to submit a reference for me if I'm interested in applying. It's flattering and the possibility is exciting. But I have my kids and even though I would be putting in for a 12-24 month tour, I don't want to be without them that long. I'm not saying I'm a shoe-in for the position, but it's one of those political decision that if I did get an offer, my future would be dictated by corporate politics and not all my own.

The "humiliation" comes in the form of me figuratively speaking. She took all of "our"/her friends with her. This also fits into my wanting to disappear. How could anyone on any planet think that there's nothing wrong with "he's just a friend" and once she filed for D, he's more than just a friend? These people know I'm hurt, but they left me and I gladly left them in return. I don't want them around me and they put me in a position of lying whenever I'm passing by in that I'm "supposed" to act like 'as if' when I feel like my hurt is amplified 100x when I see them.

I'm afraid to say anything to my in-laws about anything in my normal daily life because I don't want it to get back to my W -> part of wanting to disappear. I love them, but the D isn't final until I sign the papers and I'm still waiting for the check from my 401K so I can start working with the lawyer outside of simply consulting me at $100 a visit. I can't wait to sign those papers, because she'll be locked in and I don't have to worry as much about angering her and giving her any reason to stick it to me more than she already is.

I'm not saying I'm interested in talking to the in-laws about how I feel about anything. I just don't want to talk about something that might involve money or making a purchase or taking a trip anywhere. I'm telling my W I'm scraping by whenever she brings up money, and it's true. It aggrivates me to no end when she goes and buys a $200 toy-thing for S12 and he gets mad at me for not being able to buy a $30 iTunes card. I can't do what can't be done. She lectured me about always working or studying when the kids were with me instead of meeting their needs. I ignored her. When the kids say "always", it means 60-70% of the time. I have 2 kids with different interests and the oldest one requires some sort of financial commitment to be entertained and I can't afford much of what he wants to do. He's like his mom in this regard and I'm trying not to re-invent the wheel, but help him understand that the time we spend together doing 'whatever' is something that can be appreciated. His mom and the OM have friends with pools and lake houses and land. I don't. I'm still trying to aquire new friends and not because of what they have.

On a side note.

I've been on vacation (mentally) for the past 24 hours. I asked someone out via a co-worker, since I've no current way to contact her. I don't care what she says. It's just been really nice to take a break from the past 2+ years and actually feel nervous energy vs. hurt. If she says no, it will be a nice to hear it coming from someone that isn't bitter towards me and it will will feel good that I might have given her a reason to feel good about her day. Kind of like when I pay for the order of the person behind me at the drive thru at $tar8ucks. I don't do that all the time, but it makes me feel good that I "might" have done something to make someone feel good about their day.

[AJM]

Good news RT. As you get further from limbo, the anger gets easier, farther between episodes, and easier to deal with.

What I hear in your posts, you would be a good candidate for PTSD

But I'm no doctor and what you describe is "life" right? You know that already, but having walked in those shoes (similar - mine might be more of the running variety), I totally get it. And I see that you are in limbo for many reasons. You have been for a very long time.

I've felt similar when in that position. The desire to run away, for a good opportunity no less, is strong. I'm glad I didn't succumb to it any more than I did.

I get the idea of dating somebody else. And not having friends of my own. And feeling like I can't talk to people I use to call family. It [censored]. What's worse, I did it to myself during the limbo stage. I did it willingly and I don't regret it. At all. I had to try.

Once that was over and became more silent, the emotions came. For both me and my ex. She was horrible. As if they can get more horrible, right? I think you'll be able to handle that much better by the time you get there, but I did not. But I got through it.

I still get angry, RT. It doesn't go away quickly if at all. I was very angry at her just last week when she sent me an email expressing sympathy for the death of my grandfather. Why? Too personal. Too much pain associated with her and too many lies. I wish her the best, RT. I have no animosity in that regard, but I do get angry when she intrudes on my life still. It's not a bad thing though - long story.

They try to control and will use all kinds of tactics you use to put up with. Berating, being nice, smiling, yelling, etc. That does not stop just because you are divorced on paper. Be ready for that concept. There's more to get done while you decompress from the past several years of emotional torture you both put you through.

My suggestion? Be as patient and quiet as you can toward the old "friends" (they never really were, now were they?), be kind to the in-laws (you won't regret that) and be kind to others as you are inclined to do. That will help you more than you may realize at this point.

Friends will come. As you get out and about and meet people, you'll make new friends and some will become very close. They did for me.

Your kids. Take care of them. Not as she wants you to. Remember she is angry and wants what she wants for her sake. Take care of the kids the way you know how. They respond to that and love you for it. I know it was years before I thanked my own father. I always knew he loved me, but he did check out when my mom died. I was 16 so it was a few years before we really began talking and I could share those thoughts with him.

What I'm saying is that what you do for them now, will be huge for them later. Try to remember that each day as you go through your daily routine. While everything else is burning down around you or not worth watching, you have the opportunity to help, guide and love them. That's priceless and as time goes on you'll see that more than you do now. I know you already do quite a bit, RT and I admire that about you.

You and I aren't that much different in our situations RT. Oh, and I'm good looking, but can't vouch for you (humor is always good, right?)

There will be plenty of women when you're ready. I don't think you are ready for a relationship, so be careful. It's easy to get "connected" at this stage. But I don't think it's healthy if that helps.


Peace,
AJ

[DaddyLongShanks]

Good news RT. As you get further from limbo, the anger gets easier, farther between episodes, and easier to deal with.

What I hear in your posts, you would be a good candidate for PTSD

But I'm no doctor and what you describe is "life" right? You know that already, but having walked in those shoes (similar - mine might be more of the running variety), I totally get it. And I see that you are in limbo for many reasons. You have been for a very long time.

I've felt similar when in that position. The desire to run away, for a good opportunity no less, is strong. I'm glad I didn't succumb to it any more than I did.

I get the idea of dating somebody else. And not having friends of my own. And feeling like I can't talk to people I use to call family. It [censored]. What's worse, I did it to myself during the limbo stage. I did it willingly and I don't regret it. At all. I had to try.

Once that was over and became more silent, the emotions came. For both me and my ex. She was horrible. As if they can get more horrible, right? I think you'll be able to handle that much better by the time you get there, but I did not. But I got through it.

I still get angry, RT. It doesn't go away quickly if at all. I was very angry at her just last week when she sent me an email expressing sympathy for the death of my grandfather. Why? Too personal. Too much pain associated with her and too many lies. I wish her the best, RT. I have no animosity in that regard, but I do get angry when she intrudes on my life still. It's not a bad thing though - long story.

They try to control and will use all kinds of tactics you use to put up with. Berating, being nice, smiling, yelling, etc. That does not stop just because you are divorced on paper. Be ready for that concept. There's more to get done while you decompress from the past several years of emotional torture you both put you through.

My suggestion? Be as patient and quiet as you can toward the old "friends" (they never really were, now were they?), be kind to the in-laws (you won't regret that) and be kind to others as you are inclined to do. That will help you more than you may realize at this point.

Friends will come. As you get out and about and meet people, you'll make new friends and some will become very close. They did for me.

Your kids. Take care of them. Not as she wants you to. Remember she is angry and wants what she wants for her sake. Take care of the kids the way you know how. They respond to that and love you for it. I know it was years before I thanked my own father. I always knew he loved me, but he did check out when my mom died. I was 16 so it was a few years before we really began talking and I could share those thoughts with him.

What I'm saying is that what you do for them now, will be huge for them later. Try to remember that each day as you go through your daily routine. While everything else is burning down around you or not worth watching, you have the opportunity to help, guide and love them. That's priceless and as time goes on you'll see that more than you do now. I know you already do quite a bit, RT and I admire that about you.

You and I aren't that much different in our situations RT. Oh, and I'm good looking, but can't vouch for you (humor is always good, right?)

There will be plenty of women when you're ready. I don't think you are ready for a relationship, so be careful. It's easy to get "connected" at this stage. But I don't think it's healthy if that helps.


Peace,
AJ

Excellent advice.

[RoofTop]

And feeling like I can't talk to people I use to call family. It [censored]. What's worse, I did it to myself during the limbo stage. I did it willingly and I don't regret it. At all. I had to try.

My personal take regarding the in-laws, and I have my reservations, might be coming from protecting myself more than them. Part of it comes from wanting to go away and not be a source of awkwardness/discomfort when my W starts bringing the OM around if she hasn't already. The other part is that much of my anger comes from the feelings of betrayal towards my W and thinking about the OM hanging out with the in-laws I love so much is a feeling of betrayal I don't want to have. I understand that life moves on and they are entitled to enjoy his company as much as they did mine. I guess it's just part of the emotional process on my part. But what was it for you that kept you away from the in-laws, by choice and what did you mean by having to try?

Once that was over and became more silent, the emotions came. For both me and my ex.

In what context? Going dark or just doing everything possible to not be within 100 yards of her?

I've been silent for months since she moved out. My W still seems the same 21 yr old (as I would expect). Since I've become more angry and depressed and can't really make eye contact for more than a fleeting moment, she's picking up on it and staying away from me when at the kids activities. When I drop the kids off at our meeting place, you'd think I was running the 50yrd dash. I hurry up and give the kids a hug and say goodbye and get in the car and take off, almost peeling out. My (ex)W has had a word with me about that a few times now. She wants the kids to see that just because we're getting D, doesn't mean we hate each other and can be friends ( UGH! How nauseous. ). I know that she's right and it's what's important in regards to our kids. But for right now I can't shake her words from mind/heart..."I deserve to be happy and I'm not getting any younger." I want to forget she ever said that and for a while there I did, but I can't shake it right now.

Speaking of my behavior when I drop off the kids, last night was an exception. Every morning I carry S7 out of the backseat of her car because it's really early and he's not dressed yet. I don't speak to my (ex)W. She will roll down her window and make a point to say something like "I said goodbye." I will reply in kind and quickly turn away. Last night when I dropped the kids off, I got out of the car to help S7 out and hugged him goodbye. He was still trying to open the backdoor on her car when I was driving off. Needless to say the last look I saw was my (ex)W glaring at me. This morning when I picked up the kids I broke my usual silence when I saw she brought their over-night bags. I made a comment that I didn't think they were with me until Thursday on the schedule. She said something, but I didn't hear what she said. It didn't matter. I hadn't got S7 into my car yet and she had taken off. I felt relieved.

I'd been pondering that. Why did I feel relieved to receive the same treatment that I'd been giving her? It's not a positive thing, but I liked it. I'm left wondering if maybe it's because that's how I imagine she feels about me anyway, or had been feeling about me these past few years. If I can see her contempt for me when she addresses me, even when she's being cordial towards me, maybe seeing her show her anger is more believable....? I don't know. I'm not handling this whole thing very well. I want her to know I'm hurt without having to say it as I think most everyone here has gone through. She should know that I've received the papers from the lawyer by now and probably "assuming" that's the whole reason for my change in behavior.

I don't like feeling this way at all. Being a Debbie-Downer has never been on my resume. There have been a few fleeting moments where it feels like I'm at peace and the hurt/anger just stops, but I know I'm not there yet so I choose not to accept that all is okay with my world yet and allow the door to remain open on the hurt/anger. I have to be careful. I can tell S12 is picking up on my rigid behavior leading up to picking up and dropping them off. It's been some months since I've gone to T so I'll get an appt. scheduled, but for now I have to retain a lawyer. Part of my actions towards my (ex)W yesterday came from me receiving more legal papers in the mail telling me I can't dissolve any of my retirement earnings. Funny thing about that is I already had since that's the only way I can afford to retain a lawyer and how else am I supposed to be expected to pay her legal fees too. Here I go getting agitated again......

I still get angry, RT. It doesn't go away quickly if at all. I was very angry at her just last week when she sent me an email expressing sympathy for the death of my grandfather. Why? Too personal. Too much pain associated with her and too many lies. I wish her the best, RT. I have no animosity in that regard, but I do get angry when she intrudes on my life still.

Because I understand what you're saying about how this makes you feel, it doesn't give me warm fuzzies in my optimism department. My (ex)W has never been close to my family, but then I'm not either. I've been a bit more open to talking with them as of late. I have no intentions of updating my (ex)W about anything hurtful/painful regarding my family. When my aunt passed away back in April after losing her battle with cancer I hated my (ex)W for her comments. She said she has a heart, but she's never known me to be close to anyone in my family so she didn't know what I wanted her to say. It's the "have a heart" comment that stabbed at me. She hadn't shown me her heart in almost 3 years. Its been with the OM.

What do you mean by this not being a bad thing:

I do get angry when she intrudes on my life still. It's not a bad thing though - long story.

.......

Remember she is angry and wants what she wants for her sake.

How true! She told me months back that since she moved out she removed a source of stress from her life. Now it would seem that because she "believes" she grew up happy regardless of her parents D when she was young, our kids will grow up happy like her. And since I'm not evil by nature, we're going to remain connected and she's going to meet someone that makes her happy and I'm going to be in the front row of her wedding with a big smile and happy hug for her. She's never been much of a movie buff, but it makes wonder what Hollywood nonsense she's been watching to believe any of that garbage.

As for dating...I'm very aware of my vulnerabilities in my current frame of mind. I'm just wondering if that's the distraction I need to get me back on the rails though. Maintaining my determination towards my studies these past few weeks has been hard. I seek/need something to re-ignite the spark that's become so hard for me to get lit on my own. I've been doing it on my own for a long time and with everything going on right now it would be nice to find excitement in something.

[RoofTop]

Another need to vent....


I admit openly that I lived within a shell of denial for a few years which has moved on into anger/depression a few months ago. With D paperwork filed and legal fees piling up, I really miss being in denial. But I guess it had its place in my life and I don't want to move backwards.

Any more I'm holding on to different success stories here in the forums. The part about this all being a memory, one that may hurt a small bit, but doesn't ruin your day when the memories come up.

I look forward to the "possibility" that I may never have to speak to my XW, but we have two kids and that dream is just not realistic. So far I've been fortunate I guess, in that she stopped talking to me or texting me when I went into anger/depression. She's been using S12 to "relay" messages to me more often. I stopped making eye contact with her when it started to make me sick. I'm not evil or mean, but I feel like I'm a villain just for breathing and I dislike it very much. She looks at me with contempt and has done so for a few years and now that the D is finally going through the legal process and the OM is living with her, I'm less tolerant of being within 100-200 yards of her.

I feel betrayed, but I'm still sorting out how I've betrayed/betraying myself. I have a new outlook on life, but I don't always have the strength to stand tall or "pretend" to be happy when I'm not every day. I know that I don't need my XW. I know that if I was asked I would not reconcile with her. The damage has been done and I fear that more is on the way as the D gets closer to court dates as well as the financial toll it's taking now, never mind in the end. S12 has a b-day in two months and I can't provide for him the way I'd like too because the D has me in the tank after only my first billing statement. I will do what I can for him, but it's going to hurt either way since it won't be all that I want to do for him. Christmas isn't much better. I figure we'll get a tree and some lights this year and try to get a decoration or two. It's an adventure when I think about building new traditions, but it's hard to protect the kids from our D when they still only see bare walls, minimal furniture, and my lack of funds to buy Christmas decorations. It's not easy for kids to "understand" it all and I don't ever say anything that would imply it's their mothers fault in any way. That would be very uncool and just plain wrong. It's the protection part that hurts too. Some days are easy and some are hard and I know it's even harder for them.

I want my D to be over and done with. My in-laws have already come to accept the OM and I knew they would, but having just seen them a month ago I feel like I was lied too. Even though nothing was said about anything. I understand where those feelings come from and I'll get past it. Family is family and I'm the outsider. I feel like I want to get away from everyone because I want to stop feeling like the villain as if this is all my fault in some way. As if I didn't work tirelessly to leave no stone unturned when trying to save my marriage.

AJ - I keep asking myself everyday that same question you've brought up a few times...."What if she never comes out of MLC?" I don't have much of an answer and therein lies my internal battle. My first response is that it's not my problem anymore. That gets tempered with "What if she does?". That then becomes..."I don't think I would want her back."

I'm heading east towards a new day and she's stuck heading west to save a sunset that must eventually set. I'm no longer hanging out in the middle and waiting, but I can't seem to move east fast enough.