I agree w/BeingMe...listen and follow her lead. Listen very closely and you'll be able to sift through the garbage coming out of her mouth and she just might tell on herself.
Good luck!
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Thanks - I took your advice. It wasn't what I expected. I spent most of the time listening and validating. There was a lot of bouncing back and forth between concerns about our relationship (the sort of stuff that I wish we'd talked about before she walked away) and MLC script (feeling trapped, feeling like life is slipping by, etc).
Emotionally, she seemed like she was very stressed out going into the conversation and cried telling me things about our relationship that really bother her (she feels like second fiddle, in my shadow, not heard, etc), but as we talked and I listened/validated her feelings, she calmed considerably. So one of my 180's needs to be making her feel like she is out of my shadow and more in control - still figuring out how to do that. Another is giving her adequate time to talk and just listening - something I was bad at before.
She didn't want to talk about the affair (nor do I) and I get the feeling that it may be over or maybe she is seeing that it is inconsequential. I also get the feeling that she put both me and the affair partner on hold and that I'm willing to stick with her through a crisis and he probably isn't - maybe she feels that. She hasn't been keeping herself together through all of this and while I've loved her when she was looking/feeling her worst, I'm guessing she isn't very attractive to an affair partner who is free to play the field right now.
Part way through the conversation, she asked to give me a hug which I returned. I told her that there is no turning back the clock on our relationship and that we are both different people now. I said that any relationship that we had would be between the two new people and she seemed receptive to that. It seems like that is an important thing in all of this - for us to renegotiate who we are and how we fit together (or don't).
I guess I would almost call the meeting productive for both of us. Again, not what I expected. We have couple therapy later this week, so I'll be curious where that takes us. Still not letting myself get wrapped up in expectations though - I know full well that the monster could show up again at any time.
_____________________________ Me:39 WAW:38, M:9 T:19, No Kids EA:9/24, S:9/24 EA on hold?, MC 9/30-now
Sounds like the conversation went well and was productive. You've learned a lot about what her inner thoughts are.
Sometimes we do tend to "over shadow" them, or so they think. I would suggest stepping back some and allow her to make some decisions for herself. Maybe she needs to be recognized by others for what she does w/o being called a wife and/or partner.
Many of them will not address the affair and it's best to put that on the back burner for now.
You did well..keep up the good work!
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
My W has some similar issues, and I was a compulsive "fixer". One phrase that I started using, in addition to the usual validators like "I'm sorry you feel that way", that W has told me that REALLY helped her, and helped her see things are different, was "That sounds like a lot (or whatever is appropriate), I trust that you will figure out a solution that works for you" or something along those lines.
W said that no one has ever told her that they trusted her to figure things out for herself. And it started removing her perception of me as a controlling parent figure...and we know how our teenagers just hate it when Dad or Mom spouse tries to help...
Hang in there, this is the time to hold yourself....
Quote:
A warrior knows that he is waiting, and he knows what he is waiting for; and while he waits, he feasts his eyes upon the world. A warrior's ultimate accomplishment is to enjoy the joy of infinity. -- Carlos Castaneda
T^2
In the depths of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer. - Albert Camus
Uncertainty is the very condition which impels people to unfold their powers.-Eric Fromm
The other thing I'm remembering from the conversation (I'm stressed out enough that I don't remember these interactions very well) is that she walked back a number of hurtful things she said previously, saying that things were said "in the heat of the moment" or "that isn't how I meant that to come out" or even "I don't remember saying that". I don't want to over analyze the dialog, but seems like a big change from when she initially said them.
Minimal contact since the meeting. Will see her tomorrow night in MC. _____________________________ Me:39 WAW:38, M:9 T:19, No Kids EA:9/24, S:9/24 EA on hold?, MC 9/30-now
What you described regarding W's shift is normal, they don't remember a lot of what they say and do, she may be in a "clarity" cycle right now, but that may/can/will change...
expectations=zero
I hope things go well in MC tonight...
T^2
In the depths of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer. - Albert Camus
Uncertainty is the very condition which impels people to unfold their powers.-Eric Fromm
Journaling: I think I did a much better job of going into this MC session expecting to see the monster. The therapist is (correctly) very focused on her and not me, so I tend to do very little talking in these sessions (which is a bit of a 180, since I'm a talker and fixer). I've started keeping an inventory in my head of things she says that sound more like MLC than a relationship problem we would be working through without the MLC. So much of last night was in the MLC column though - it just reinforces that there isn't much I can do.
She is definitely rewriting history. Not overtly, but she is putting a negative spin on everything from our home to our honeymoon. And the negative spin goes way back into our history, so it has always been bad according to her (I know that is not the case, but validating that she feels that way).
We spent the bulk of the time with her working through her feelings about our relationship when we first got together (19 years ago!). For a period of about 3 years, I was not a good boyfriend - very distracted and not prioritizing the relationship. Not abusive or anything like that, just not committed. That changed dramatically 16 years ago and I've since put a lot of effort into being a good husband and she's said that she isn't unhappy in the marriage, just not happy either. But last night, it was all about that blip on the radar as though I was still that person. I apologized for that time (again) but it really feels like she is searching for ways to convince herself that we can't work as a couple.
Also in the MLC column - she is fixated on running away. International travel is her top priority, she regrets not moving to the opposite coast when she had the chance during that bad 3 years. To be clear, I've never restricted her travel and she's done lots of it. It all feels like an insatiable desperation for independence, which I've read is typical of MLC in women more than men.
And before the session yesterday, she sent me two emails. One asking for the dog for the weekend and ten minutes a later one saying my new FB profile picture looks good. Not exactly a smooth "buttering up" on her part. She posted a FB picture of our dog that was obviously taken by the OM which really made me feel conflicted about letting her take the dog ever again. Trying to remember to be goals oriented with decisions like that but its hard not to let emotions take over. _____________________________ Me:39 WAW:38, M:9 T:19, No Kids EA:9/24, S:9/24 EA on hold?, MC 9/30-now
Changing the locks might have felt good at the time, I'm wondering if it was an enormous mistake. Last night, we were planning to meet. I pushed our usual time back as I was out with a friend (me GAL'ing). W offered to bring carryout and I was really looking forward to spending some non-R-talk time with her.
I get home about 5 minutes late and find the carryout bag outside the door and her gone. I text her and 15 minutes later I get an email saying that she "didn't know I changed the locks" and "I should have told her". I wrote her back a flurry of emails explaining that I did it before halloween and that I was feeling violated because she could waltz in whenever she wanted but I don't even know where her apartment is, let alone have a key to it. I got radio silence back - not a word. I asked her how we were supposed to work it out if she refused to discuss it. Nothing back. So I stopped contacting her...
So now it is 16 hours later and still nothing. Do I maintain no contact? I know that my decision to change the locks was perfectly fair (really a response to her saying she was "happy" in her apartment and had "everything she needed") but I guess the timing feels wrong (things seemed to have a positive momentum). Why did she completely freak out? I didn't see this coming at all.
This seems like maybe a good example of not being goals oriented but instead being reactionary. When I ask myself why I changed the locks, it had more to do with feeling hurt than trying to achieve a goal.
Don't contact her again. You told her the truth about waltzing in whenever she felt like it and yet, you had no key to her place. Don't worry about it. This is one of the consequences of her actions and she needs to get use to you having boundaries. All mlcers are not happy when the locks are changed. Why? Because they no longer have control over the home and being allowed to come and go as they please.
Do not give her key or you will have defeated the purpose of this boundary.
She'll get over it and while doing so, she'll have to think about what you said.
Continue moving forward.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
W finally emailed. She says she was distraught, which is why she went silent. I now see that she had been in the house and removed a large box of her stuff that I'd packed. I am guessing that she was upset not just because of the lock on the door but also because of I've started to pack her things.
I'm sure that the reality of moving her stuff clashes with her fantasy of living unencumbered in her apartment while using our house as a storage space. Still, as she continues to move things out, it feels worse... it feels like the more embedded in the apartment she becomes and the more that space turns into "home", the less likely she is to come back.
