WAS vs. LBS

[mamabird]

Glad I found your thread Crazyville. I am the LBS in my sitch but in a way I am a WAW too - I had an EA which was basically a slap in my H's face. I really identify a lot with what you are saying here - especially this...

Yet if you met him, you would think he was the most devoted H in the world, a H that I would be a fool to walk away from. I had a mental vision of him this weekend being one of those beggars standing at the street corner with a sign that reads, "Will work for food." It really pulls on your heartstrings, and many people just hand them money. But if you call their bluff and offer them work, then you get the real story. Unfortunately, no one ever calls his bluff.

My H talks such a good game, and he used a series of arguments (based on true facts) to really smear me and make me look like the world's worst, ungrateful, hateful, horrible W. He really should have been a lawyer. He even used this tactic with my father and then told him not to believe anything I said, that I was "fundamentally dishonest." I have filed all of this away under "Do not believe anything they say" but it really is vile and reprehensible behavior on his part.

Anyway, he hasn't taken any responsibility for his own part in our sitch, and it sounds like you're experiencing same with your H.

[mamabird]

One more thing to add:

I just noticed this in your sitch. My H's mother also left when he was an early teen and he has never gotten over it. H's grandmother had an affair but stayed with H's grandfather (on H's mother's side.) IMO this is the crux of the problem in our R because H has never dealt with this abandonment and is now projecting his issues onto me.

I just read this on Soul.Searching's site. THIS is why I'm still trying to stick it out for S12.

Divorce does not equal abandonment. If you and your H D, there will be a custody agreement. No one is leaving your S behind. My H truly got left behind. It is very different. My own parents are D and I never felt abandoned by either one of them.

[Soul.Searching]

One more thing to add:

Divorce does not equal abandonment. If you and your H D, there will be a custody agreement. No one is leaving your S behind. My H truly got left behind. It is very different. My own parents are D and I never felt abandoned by either one of them.

Yes, So did mine. He didn't see his Mum for months and months. It wasn't her fault but H never knew that.

[Soul.Searching]

Your welcome CV, I am glad you are doing things for yourself.
Is there any kind of groups near you that you could participate in? Scrap-booking, Karate? Whatever interests you. That way you could probably go during school time or night time and still get that social aspect.

Funny, I didn't see AJ posting just before me. He speaks directly to the same.

Have you ever heard the saying, "think outside the box"?

There's another way to consider that phrase, which is "there is no box". Or to use a reference from the movie "Matrix", there is no spoon.

Gandhi, Buddhism, what have you, teach that a problem exists when you look at it. It gets worse, the stronger you focus on it.

Stay well.

So if you ignore a problem, Then it does not exist?

[~ kd ~]

So if you ignore a problem, Then it does not exist?

That's a common thinking when people first consider the idea.

The problem both does not exists AND exists.

That's the nature of life.

There are problems that exist, everywhere and all around us and in places we aren't and within people we've never and will never meet.

Who's problem is it?

Walk by someone on the street and say, "hi". Do their problems become your problems, suddenly?

No.

Our problems exists only within us.

Many potential problems exist for us to focus on. Some we let go, others we cling to.

Problems make us stuck.

A problem does not have to make us stuck.

Solving a problem does not require one to focus on it and become stuck in it.

In the same way that a teacher appears when the student is ready...

A solution appears when the problem is ready...

In the mean time, live life as a great experience to engage and thrive in.

[Soul.Searching]

Very insightful,. Do you have any book recommendations?

[AJM]

I just did some googling on relationship dynamics. Whenever I thought or spoke "dynamics," I just meant the physical interaction between H and myself. For example, if I do something with him that he wants to do, I feel/believe that he should do something equivalent with me that I want to do. Simple.

"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." - Mahatma Ghandi

He even used this tactic with my father and then told him not to believe anything I said, that I was "fundamentally dishonest." I have filed all of this away under "Do not believe anything they say" but it really is vile and reprehensible behavior on his part.

I know this is out of context and was not posted by you. However, it illustrates something I think you need to know. Do you recognize the dynamic in Regretful's post to you? Do you see how her husband is hurt and how he his actions are taken by her? I'm not saying he doesn't have his part in this or that he is wrong or right. I'm trying to point out what you may not see at the moment by highlighting what others have experienced.

The references for my questions, were here in this part of your thread:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2297178&page=3

One thing that stands out:

Could you imagine yourself "creating loving feelings for them" if you were arranged a M to them? I don't think I can.

Oddly, much of the world does find a way to do just that. But it's far more complicated than that sentence.

A very interesting look into the dynamic came here: http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2294276#Post2294276
At the bottom of that. I highlighted that one because you seem to be stuck on this part of the dynamic. As a guy and an outsider, I see that conversation very differently than you seem to.

Can you see the power of perspective yet? Your perspective is very very different than mine. I see a woman who is generally unhappy and wondering if there is better elsewhere but stuck because she doesn't want to hurt her child but is also stuck because she is waiting for her husband to change because she has been wronged.... (run-on sentence is on purpose).

Perhaps I'm seeing it incorrectly. But it seems you are looking for a reason to stay and fight vs. run away.

I have to head to work for now. The thoughts may seem like chinese right now, but please give it some thought. I promise you, I am really interested in your well-being and joy. I am not interested in pursuing happiness. (There is a big difference)

Peace,

AJ

[Crazyville]

H: (H yells to the kitchen to where S12 is making a drink.) S12, were you late for school this morning?
C: OMG!!!! Why are you asking him? I just read it straight from the student handbook published by the school. I understand that you give me zero credibility, but how can you discount the published school policy? Do you think I was lying as I read it to you? Do you need to go online and read it yourself??
Nevermind. Just forget it. I don’t need your help getting S12 to school. I want him to be there in accordance with school policy, so I will get him there myself. You are not doing me any favors when this is what I have to deal with.

I get constant bickering, zero credibility. It seems like if I say the sky is blue, I'll get an argument. I've taken a position of sharing absolutely nothing with him so he has nothing to contradict.

Your thoughts?

This is the bottom of that post. So what part? That I got mad? My explaining my experience? My explaining my future approach? I don't doubt that you see it differently as a guy but I'd be interested to hear your perspective.

Perhaps I'm seeing it incorrectly. But it seems you are looking for a reason to stay and fight vs. run away.p

Only looking for a reason to stay, minus the fight.

I read the post you referenced as a basis for your questions. I'm not tying the two together. So I'm just going to give a shot at an answer to one of them: What made your perspective change from before?
My perspective changed because I learned from my experience that I was previously mistaken. For example, if I put on a coat in cold weather, I do so because I believe it will keep me warm. If it doesn't keep me warm, I learn that I was wrong and I put on a thicker coat. Will I die without a warmer coat? Maybe not. Could I still have good day if I'm shivering? Possibly. But why would I do then when I know another coat is an option?

With my H, I believed that I would enjoy his company. I've learned otherwise. In reference to KD's beach statement, I can't imagine a reason for (voluntarily) going to the beach if I don't expect to enjoy it. If I want warm and it's cold, or I want sunny and it's cloudy, or I want peace and there's a rock band playing, I would leave and go do something else. As KD illustrated, my experience on the beach is MY experience. And H's is his. But MY experience changes if H is splashing cold water on me and kicking sand in my face and drinking my margarita, etc. I learned from MY experience "on the beach" that I don't enjoy H being there with me. My perspective changed because I learned that I was wrong and I don't enjoy his company. Though I would like to, because at least some part of me cares for him, that would require him to change his behavior, otherwise I'll go "to the beach" alone or with someone else. Sorry, that's where I'm at. In fact, I don't even WANT to be someone who is unaffected by what goes on around me.

AJM, I bet you and KD would get along great! You both talk the same language. I, on the other hand, feel like Marlin in the movie Nemo when Squirt the little sea turtle is trying to explain to him how to ride the current. Nemo just stares at him then says to Dory, "It's like he's trying to speak to me, I know it!" And it's probably worse because I really don't like game-playing, and this feels like one. It reminds me of one of those pictures that you have to cross your eyes and squint and blur your vision in order to see some hidden image, only to feel afterwards like it wasn't even worth all the effort anyway. I appreciate your trying, but if you and KD can't make your points in a manner less Miyagi-like with the wax on/wax off exercises, then I'm pretty sure I'm just not going to get it.

[Crazyville]

RegretfulLA, I'm going to go check out your thread. I would love to get some of your insight, because with the things H has done to me to get me to be the WAS, I want to read YOUR journey and how it is you're now the LBS. Thanks for dropping in!

[mamabird]

Crazyville, I hope you do. I think we may have similar dynamics and I am looking forward to reading more of your story. You did say something that caught my eye and reminded me of me. You said that if someone came along at this point, you might not have the willpower to fight it.

In my sitch, someone came along, and all of a sudden I realized how unhappy I was (though it never went past EA). So I started as the WAW. Then we put a bunch of band-aids on and went along our merry way. Things got better. Then things got worse again. And OM2 came along. And by that time I was mad on top of feeling neglected. When H found out about OM2 (a meaningless texting thing), he flipped out and kicked me out, and called a L. Therefore I became the LBS.

I should have probably walked away long ago, but like others here, I was sort of in la-la-land and didn't have full awareness of what was going on or of my own feelings. My current feelings are that I want to TRY but don't have a lot of hope that my H can truly step up to the plate, accept responsibility for neglecting me and our M and start being ENGAGED in what's going on (other than the football game or work). I sense that same frustration in you.