Searching, trying - still going, but how?

[NLW]

oh k_g,
I don't know what to say....this is hard to hear.

I feel for you so much.
What you are going through with respect to your little ones is just too much.

It is beyond awful. And yet... I can hear his justifications. WASs who can do what they've done would have no problem at all in introducing the OP to their kids. It all fits their wacko plan. Morals and values out the window; it's all about them.

You're right to chastise yourself about having expectations (i.e. you know you can't afford to think normally in any way at all about what he is doing).

I'm in awe of your self-control. And you are so switched on about the pointlessness of approaching him in anger.

In my eyes you're showing an almost saintly forebearance.

I know it doesn't make it hurt any less but you are truly taking the high road here.
Not sure I could do it. The sort of stuff that you're dealing with is huge - and you are getting through it with insight, dignity and grace.

A dose of Pema might help, too, if you haven't gone there already.

Enormous hugs to you, and loads of respect.

[labug]

I can only imagine how painful that must have been for you. I think tho, and no one can predict, that your girls will be fine. It sounds as if they are surrounded by people who care for them and that's what they need.

The problem is you tried to shut the barn door after the horse was out but no one told you the horse was gone.

I am very surprised by people (esp OW family) who create a whole new life, that includes young children, before a D is final but I'm often surprised by the actions of others.

Borrowing from SD, I try to think, "hmmm, that's interesting."

You have grown a lot in these long months.

Where are you in the D process?

What's best for kg?

[keep_going]

NLW - Thank you for the post and support and for the Pema recommend. I know how much other friends here have benefited from reading her, so I will check it out.

I wish I felt as patient and as graceful as you describe it. I think once I reach complete detachment and acceptance and this whole process is not painful to me, then I will feel like I have arrived.

Hugs to you. I know you are also going through rough times right now.

[keep_going]

Labug,

What's best for kg?

This ^^^^ is a loaded question right now...
I want to say that what I need is what I want, but we both know that is simply not an option.

Intellectually I know that the best for me is to reach complete acceptance. That requires a level of detachment that I am not nearly close to reaching.

It sounds as if they are surrounded by people who care for them and that's what they need.

For intance, the acceptance of this ^^^ would be a solid sign that I have reached that point. Yet right now, it seems like a Mother Teresa kind-kind-of-feat that I don't see myself reaching. At least not anytime soon.

Why?

In my heart and in my mind I know that I should act and accept what is best for my kids given my circumstances. Yet there is a level of pain associated with the whole OW situation that goes beyond the damage caused in my marriage. Everyone that has been cheated on knows of the incredibly profound pain (both emotional and physical) that an infidelity causes, making us question our self-worth and everything that we held dear and true, including our sanity. I don't know how to describe it any better than that, but I think everyone who has experienced it understands and would probably agree that no other type of pain can compare to this (except for the death of a child, which I fortunately have never experienced).

Yet the second level of pain I have felt given my particular situation with very, very young kids has been quite unexpected and I will venture to say, equally or even more painful. Why? Because it has attacked my identity and self-worth as a parent. How so?

If my kids were older and aware of the intricacies of our situation, it would definitely be more painful for them because they would probably be disappointment by H's actions and R with OW. So intellectually I get it when people say it's better for them that they are young and my heart is glad they don't have to experience that level of pain.

Yet, by having OW come into their lives so early and lovingly will make them easily accept her. If OW turns out to be the person my H describes, my kids can grow up to love her like a mother. People tell me that will never be, but I do fear that because all their lives' memories will always include both me and OW in the picture. There are a lot of cases where kids grow up loving step-parents equally or more than their blood ones. Do I want my kids to learn to love her? I believe I can come to accept that. But as a second mother? No way. Sure, that is completely selfish, but that is honestly how I feel right now. Perhaps when I reach that true acceptance and detachment I will feel differently, perhaps I won't.

I also feel that as long as I remain single I will also have to compete with OW (and H) and will be at a disadvantage as a single parent. At their household they will have two loving parents and all the advantages that this brings - emotional stability, quality time and attention from the parents, a better financial situation, etc. etc.

In addition I have to deal with the notion that H and I failed to give them a two-parent household, yet OW and H could. I need to find the all-too-elusive self-forgiveness here...

And finally, I need to get over my sense of self-righteousness. I feel like my H and OW are manipulating the situation and my kids' feelings by giving them fun times, attention, love, a new extended family and many, many presents to make sure my kids fully and readily accept OW. H and OW are consciously and permanently burying all negative aspects associated with their R and how it all evolved. Why? Because I will not be the angry, bitter wife that will tell her kids when they grow up how things went down and how inappropriate H's and OW's behavior has been in my eyes. So I am also trying to deal with the "it's not fair, they are getting away with murder and I cannot do anything about it" kind of anger.

All of the above are the current challenges I need to overcome in order to reach that acceptance and detachment you allude to and that I need to reach to get unstuck, move on and be happy.

Since reaching this level of detachment and acceptance is not within reach in the immediate and foreseeable future, then what is best for KG in the short term?

To go as dim as possible, to avoid H and OW, to continue my focus on myself and the challenges of my current situation and to prepare for a new added bonus coming up after Thanksgiving... I will meet OW in person and have to see her on a consistent basis since she will start attending our daughters' soccer and gymnastics activities.

Right now I am nowhere near close to being ready to meet her. I honestly just don't know how I will react when that happens, so I am currently thinking that I will need to temporarily stop attending any functions where she can be until I know I will be able to handle at least a civil hello with her...

I am sorry for the long post, but it really helps me to clarify my thoughts and feelings and maintain focus on the task at hand. I also, as always, appreciate any input from you and others to keep myself and my motivations honest.

Thanks! ((((((labug))))))

[bustingout]

KG- I am sorry. I think its just not right. Yet, like you said so eloquently anger and control is not the way to handle it. You see that and that is what is important for now. You don't like it, but you know deep down if you try to control it, and use anger, the outcome will be worse for YOU.

You are an amazing woman KG. You really are. It shines through in your posts. The amount of growth and understanding you have and compassion you have is heartwarming and inspiring.

I do agree with labug about being surprised by people (esp OW family) who create a whole new life, that includes young children, before a D is final but I'm often surprised by the actions of others.

Lets not be surprised anymore. Lets not other people's poor choices accept how we move forward or influence how we walk tall from this moment forward.

What is it that KG wants?

(((( ))))

[NLW]

k_g,

I'm nowhere near as evolved as you in relation to matters like this.
I'm stuck in the pain and unfairness of it all, the self-righteousness.

Given that, my advice - and this is not good, I'm sure, would be to tell your H that you feel you are unlikely to be able to control yourself in the presence of OW at your children's public activities.

Your mother-bear instincts are what they are - instinctive - and you still feel so upset by things that you worry that you might just lose it and confront her in front of everyone.

The reason I'm suggesting this apparently wacky line is that I was recently astounded at how I reacted to the presence of OW in our family car in our driveway. H dropped by late at night to deliver a phone that the kids had left in his car, and D16 saw the outline of a person in the passenger seat.
I almost leapt out of the front door.

IN MY CAR IN MY DRIVEWAY!

I was shaking and had a huge rush of adrenalin that had me thinking I would just bound out there and tear her out of the passenger seat and beat her to a pulp.

There, I said it.

I worry what i will do when i see her out with my H in public.

I think I will just call her out (loudly, using her full name) on being a marriage wrecker, causing unimaginable pain to so many people, on being a predator .. etc etc.

None of it will do the slightest good, but that is what I fear I might do if I lose control.

If it comes to it, I think i might just have to tell stbx that this is what i fear i might do. Wrong, i know, but it is honestly what i fear will happen. If I know him, he won't want to take the chance.

The better option would be to ignore her, as 25 suggests. To not be the crazy bitter stuck woman who makes a fool of herself in public.
To be the woman who is so together that she eventually attracts so many people to her that she has an even better life than before - and certainly a better life than that of a couple of cheaters who think it's OK to act as if one of them is not still married.

If you decide on another relationship in the future, your kids will have a new father-figure in their lives - someone who, can I say it? - will have better morals and values and be much better for them.

[keep_going]

Busting - Thanks for stopping by my friend, for pumping me up and be so inspirational. I like how you say this:

"Lets not other people's poor choices accept how we move forward or influence how we walk tall from this moment forward."

I am trying to stand tall, yet bracing for what I believe will be the toughest part of my journey - the lowest point where I will require more strength than ever. That is the divorce process, with its corresponding and inevitable financial debacle and the impending entrance of OW into my kids and my daily life. I know it will be the lowest low of this roller coaster for me and I am really trying to prepare for it so I can survive it and come out a better person. After that, everything will be forward-moving and I know it will get easier to stand taller.


NLW - Thanks for the advice, candor and and for sharing such personal feelings. It means a lot to me. I do like your suggestion, but I feel strongly my H would ignore it. He has done so with every request I have made, so there is no reason I should expect anything different. Plus I don't want to put him in control of this situation.

I know my limitations and while I would not react violently towards OW, I don't want to have my kids see that I don't even acknowledge her presence. Basic manners would be reasonable to extend to anyone. I consider that taking the high road, which is my goal. So I guess that until I know I can reach that point, I'd rather just avoid her, even if that means not attending my kids' activities all the time.

IDK, maybe not the best option, but I don't see many others.

Thanks again, lovely ladies!

[keep_going]

I had a huge four-day long backslide, or should I say – debacle…
Warning - this is LONG, longer than my usual long posts...

DAY 1
I found out H had deposited his severance checks on a separate account. I had seen the balance of the joint account go down to almost nothing and worried we would not have money to pay basic expenses, thus reducing my spending to the very bare bones. Meanwhile I watched H fly up North to see OW and spending money as usual.

I finally had to ask him and he told me about his other account – his lawyer had advised him to deposit HIS money separately. I told him that it wasn’t HIS money and it was unfair of him to want to control and keep money from me. I asked if I had given him any reason to distrust me. I was furious and felt betrayed yet once again.

I told him he didn’t care about his family, that I have been taking care of our kids and living as frugally as possible, while he spends away with OW. I told him how dare him call it HIS money. I called him scum; I should have never trusted him when he said he wanted to be friends. Friends don’t do that. I said he was selfish, he didn’t care about his kids, only about himself and his mistress I said he would have to re-pay all money spent on her because it belongs to our kids. Him and OW had no moral values, that if she truly loved him, she would not spend our kids’ money knowing that he doesn’t have a job. That I hoped she didn’t come to our kids’ classes or I would say all of this to her face. I told him that he has single-handedly put us on the verge of bankruptcy and squandered our life savings.

Yes… I know – NOT GOOD AT ALL. I am ashamed of myself.

He asked me to stop sending hateful texts. I said they were true, he was a liar for continuing to expose the kids to his R when he promised not to do so. I called him a jerk. He said he followed what he understood the agreement to be and had been having the girls talk to OW on the phone to establish a rapport with her for when they see her this Thanksgiving week.

So I said it would be better to not celebrate D5 birthday together as originally planned. That I knew I would probably not be able to act friendly with him in front of our kids or parents.

He was livid and accused me of using the kids as my pawns to get back at him. He said I was cruel to ruin their day with my anger and shame on me. That my anger continues to hurt others, that my moral values were ridiculous. I ruin my D’s party because I am mad at my ex for breaking up with me because I was a jerk to him. That my anger ruined his life already and he just wants to move on. To stop threatening to continue ruining his life further and just let him be. He wants to be my friend but every time we start getting along, stuff like this happens.

I responded that he was right, we could not be friends because there was no trust between us, just finger-pointing and name-calling from both ends. That I have a temper and he lies. I said I don’t ruin his life - that he is the only one responsible for his actions and his happiness and to please stop blaming me. I have paid the price for being a jerk to him; I have apologized and continue to do so when I fail and I am trying to move on. Yet he is stuck blaming me, accusing me and name-calling me; he is stuck and unwilling to accept any responsibility. I accepted I still lose my cool. I am far from perfect but continue becoming aware of my mistakes and working on them. I said that he expects me to never get angry, even when he hurts me or lies to me and that is impossible. That he has never found forgiveness for anything I do – past or present. I said I don’t want a friendship like that – I am a human being and want to be treated as such, not expected to be perfect.

He said he could not believe I had stumped this low, that not even his father did this when his parents divorced. I said that his dad never cheated on his mom. He said to please stop using that language, that it ignores the fact that he told me our marriage was over. He was clear with me that he was done and he doesn’t need a piece of paper. I was being irrational, to please reconsider, that we should suck it up and do what is best for D5, that his parents always sucked it up for their kids.

I replied that I have been sucking it up for 2 years, hearing him remind me what a jerk I was to him during all our marriage, every time he is with OW, hearing say how everything is my fault and how abusive I am. That I have sucked it up, owning my faults and trying to improve and also every time I backslide, hearing him say how I will never change and how right he was in leaving me.

He finally said he truly had no idea why I called him a liar; that he has acknowledged my changes very much. (????)

I apologized to him and explained in detail why I was triggered and told him I should have reacted differently and not in anger. At this point I was very careful to use “I” statements and express how his actions hurt me, instead of attacking his character. I focused on the actions and how they hurt me. I was very open about how hurt I was. Yet he didn’t validate ANY of my feelings. Just responded with a list of the facts that supported his POV to show he was right.

I replied that making a list of points to prove he was right was not a good start to improve our communication. That I had poured my heart out and that my apology was sincere and that I was disappointed that he failed to even acknowledge my feelings as valid or real.

He replied that my apology was cloacked in accusations and to stop beating him up. That he didn’t think he treated me poorly, on the contrary, he always tried to be very fair with me. That he just didn’t understand how he did anything wrong. He then said he was sorry IF he misinterpreted my text and apology and that he took it as me complaining about him yet again.

DAY 2
In the end, I gave in and decided to keep the celebration as originally planned. H showed up all dressed up in costume. I got upset because I had been dying to dress up but didn’t spend $35 in a costume thinking we were running out of money. I was also upset because H always said to me it was silly to dress up and seeing him doing it now felt like a slap in the face. Finally, I also started thinking about how we used to celebrate the holidays and realized that H never really got into them with me. I was always the one decorating, planning – alone. Even when I was pregnant three years ago I remember climbing on top of a two-story ladder to put Xmas lights with my 8-month pregnant belly, while my H sat watching TV…
So when he showed up it triggered all of the above and I couldn’t even face him. I went to the kitchen and cried. I managed to hide it from the kids, but our parents noticed my cold attitude towards him that evening.

DAY 3
The next morning he was late (as has been many times before) dropping S1 off and only texted me:
“I let the kids sleep in. On our way now.”
No apologies, nothing.
I just replied: “Next time you decide to do something that affects my time you need to ask if it’s ok with me. Thanks to your lack of consideration I will be late again. You are being selfish as usual.”

H: “Sorry. I don’t think it’s selfish if I’m doing it for the kids.”
Me: “Ugh. There it goes – you need to argue that you are right and I am wrong. Stop arguing and drive.”

We continued arguing back and forth for a while until I asked him to leave me alone.

He later texted me: “I am sorry you are upset. I don’t know how to avoid that and it’s obvious that it’s not something I can do anything about other than to not let it affect me anymore. I did get my hopes up, but I agree we should only talk about the essentials moving forward.”

Me: “Instead of saying ‘I am sorry you are upset. I don’t know how to avoid that.’ You could say ‘I am sorry I made a unilateral decision that caused you to be late. I can see how that was selfish and how it would make you upset. I would be too. In the future I will make sure to consider your personal time as being just as valuable as mine.’ Can you see how you CAN do things to not make me upset? You are not a powerless victim; you are the driver of your actions, which affect others positively or negatively. Things don’t just happen to you; you make them happen. Have the courage and strength to take ownership of your life.
And to show you that I can follow my own advice, I am sorry I reacted negatively and behaved angrily with you. I should have not let my feelings control me and I can see how I hurt you with my poor reaction. That was wrong and I apologize. I will try to express my disappointment and frustration constructively next time so I can convey to you my needs and we can avoid this situation in the future. I am so depressed and ashamed about my behavior in the past three days. I need to be stronger; I hate myself for backsliding like this and getting angry. And the worst is the pain I feel in knowing how much I have hurt you. I wish things didn’t affect me anymore and that I would not react so badly. I have been crying all night and am so embarrassed about my behavior. I hate hurting you. I hate not being who I want to be. I hate faltering and setting us back at zero again. I know I need to get up and continue working on myself but I am having a hard time forgiving myself today. I am trying to change every day. This is the hardest thing I have ever had to do and regardless of any exterior triggers, I need to do way better than these last couple of days. I am sorry. “

H: “When I said I was sorry about not communicating to you this morning I meant it. I blew it. I really wish the last three days didn’t happen. And I genuinely am grateful that you see how much anger breaks us apart. Thank you. Believe it or not, I can be killed with kindness. I do see the errors of my ways when I screw up. You usually don’t have to tell me what I did wrong. I’ll figure it out on my own pretty quickly. And I do apologize to you. There are times when I didn’t have a clue why you’re angry and I let you know that too.
From your texts and actions, I know there are other things that you are mad about or that hurt you. I don’t know why you were upset when I showed up in a costume for the BD celebration. If you want, I’d be happy to talk about them. I need you to know that I’m going to protect myself a lot more. I try so hard with you, and I just get disappointed when things like this happen. Right now, I feel like I’ve been run over by a truck again. I know I screw up, but I don’t purposely try to hurt you. In fact I go out of my way to avoid hurting you more than anyone else in my life.
I am not insensitive. I’m not a liar. I’m not selfish. I’m not a jerk, I don’t flaunt OW in your face. I am not a bad father - all of which you’ve accused me of being in the last 3 days. According to you these are your feelings and I shouldn’t discount them.
If so, I’m begging you to please just keep them to yourself. I don’t need to get beat up anymore by your ‘feelings.’ I don’t think you are a monster. I don’t think you are a bad mother. I don’t assume the worst of you. I just honestly think you can be unbelievably vicious when you feel slighted, and it gets in the way of resolving misunderstandings and disagreements. I need to protect myself from this and I think you do too. We owe ourselves a second chance away from each other.”

DAY 4
The next day, after soccer practice H and I had an in-person talk.

I once again apologized for the last three days. I told him that I realize I backslide a lot, but that I feel I am swimming upstream. I have to remain strong and be perfect and not be affected when he is with another woman. I explained why I got triggered by him showing up in a costume. That there are constant, daily triggers that I need to overcome and sometimes it just becomes too much for me. I told him it’s hard to show my changes, but that I keep trying. That I don’t over-react as often as I used to, but that he just doesn’t see any improvements at all because when I get angry, it validates his views of me.

He responded by saying that he notices my changes and has told everyone, including MIL about my changes. He then said that our problems have nothing to do with OW. I asked him how serious his R with her is and he first said that he would not be going out with someone if it wasn’t serious. Yet later he tried to downplay their R, saying neither has plans to move, that the kids are #1 for both of them and that they are both happy with how things were. He said right now he has no interest in living with anyone and he doesn’t know what will happen in the future.

He also said that our problem has to do with my anger and how vicious I can get when I am mad. That OW has nothing to do with it. I said I understood but also had a hard time accepting that she is not a factor NOW. He said she is not. So I asked him then, if I changed and I didn’t have a temper and our R was everything he wanted, if he would come back and leave her. He just answered: “I know you will never change. I know our R will never be good.” (Whatever happened to him saying that he saw my changes and told everyone about them…)

I thanked him for his honesty and told him that his lack of faith motivated me more to prove him that I can change. That I loved him no matter what and that time would tell if he was right or wrong.

We hugged and he left.

My MIL also told me that she was so sad that H filed for D. That she had had hope for us, but wasn’t sure anymore. That H told her that he loved who I was when I was not mad, but couldn’t be with the person I am when I get angry. MIL also said I have every reason to be angry but to please try to just not react and whenever H does or says anything that upsets me to just say to him; “H, I love you unconditionally.”

Yes, I know how much I blew it…
It’s back to square one. Back to first day of DBing. Back to re-setting my R with H to ZERO. Back to trying to forgive myself and get out of this dump.

I feel like such a hypocrite, giving others advice when I am the WORST DBer and can’t even follow it myself.

I wish I was stronger, I wish my efforts showed any results, I wish changing was easier for me. I hope H is not right after all...

[Valeska19]

KG,
I'm sorry that you backslide. It seems like a week from absolute he!!

You gotta give yourself some grace. I'm not going to say you didn't fvck up.. but you are human. Growing and changing is a 2 step forward -1 step back process.. and sometimes backslides just happen.

Back in September, I went through a HUGE backslide for 6 wks around my birthday.. and I couldn't see it.. until there was a moment - that I woke up (or sobered up in my case) - and I did a "WTF... who am I becoming" moment.

And for that day.. I just cried. Thought about all the work I did and I felt it was all gone. That I had lost...my progress.. myself..

.. but the truth is that I didn't. It was just another step in the process of my growth.. and for some reason God allowed me to backslide.. so much.. and in such a painful way.. because he knew that was what I needed to be forward....

Sometimes.. you just gotta hit that low... that place so dark, you never want to go back there...

... it doesn't mean that you won't still struggle.. but it's like in that moment of deep pain - you have found a new reason to keep moving forward.

I know it's gonna sound weird.. but now is the time for you to become inspired.. and motivated.. not defeated.

You're H opened up alot about what bothers him. These past 4 days have given you alot to work on. Do I think he is completely innocent here... absolutely not. He has much work to do as well.. but that is out of your control.

You can only work on you. I guess this is where some of the 2x4s come in.

You both agree that you attack when upset. And that attacking his character upsets him.. so much so that he attacks your character.

So don't do it.

And don't tell him how he should have responded or acted.. just show him another way - he says he's not an idiot.. believe him.

And don't expect that because you are growing - that he should... and then fault him that he isn't.

You both clearly have soo much hurt and pain swirling around. Him about how you treated him in the past - and you about how H is treating you now...

.. and honestly - with all of that pain - there is no room for love there. If there was - your communication would be different.

And I know it's hard that he still holds the "old kg" over your head - and I don't believe he should do that forever.. but he might.

But it shouldn't matter.. because it's not about him. It's about you making the choice to stop the anger, it's about you making the choice to love him better. The changes are for YOU and eventually it will be up to your H to decide if he wants to accept them.

Regardless - YOUR PATH DOESN'T CHANGE.

But do try to have as much patience as you can. Hurt doesn't go away overnight.. or in years.

25 gave me a pretty big 2x4 yesterday because I was using my pain to assume the worst of my xw.. when she was doing something very thoughtful for a mutual friend.

Because my pain about the D - was overshadowing a kind act.

It's not easy stuff to move the pain aside..... not for you or your H.. but if you push yourself to recognize and acknowledge when its your hurt talking, you'll be able to STOP reacting - and START acting the way you want the new and improved KG to act.

(((( ))))

[scaredsilly]

"(Whatever happened to him saying that he saw my changes and told everyone about them…)"

your latest tirade blew that out of the water. that's what he remembers because the sting is so new. that's how they see us. i think anger is what our H's hate about us (the angry W's here).

your anger is justified. however, is there a way you can look at your anger, when it starts to bubble up, and look beneath it to what you're afraid of and express that part to him:

"H, when you tell me that you've put money into a separate account, i become so afraid of not being able to take care of myself and our children. i'm making so many financial sacrifices now and i don't know where else to cut expenses. i'm worried about food and shelter for our kids and i'm afraid you will totally abandon us financially."


leave out all references to OW. this is between you and him.


"I feel like such a hypocrite, giving others advice when I am the WORST DBer and can’t even follow it myself."

this made me smile. it so much easier to look at another's situation and give good advice. i see from your posts that you do it all the time. you are very wise. it's much harder to do the right thing in our own. you are definitely not a bad DB'er.