Originally Posted By: Dm45

Black and white as to adultery self serving...It's my belief. If expressing it seems self serving, or will drive her away I need to express differently or not at all.


People usually don't seek OP's for no reason. More often than not it's because there are problems in the M. So if your goal is to win your W back, then you've got to ask yourself what you contributed to driving her away and do 180's on those things. I'm certainly not applauding adultery, it disgusts me. But it usually is a symptom of other problems.

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Why did I ask if she thought about kids feelings? To try to point out to her that she is placing R w/OM above R w/kids.


Deep inside she knows it and she feels guilty for it. But when you say that to her she's just going to blame you instead of herself. Right now she thinks everything is your fault, so you need to shut up, step back and give her the time and space it requires for her to realize she's the guilty party, not you.

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(does R mean relationship or reconcile?)


Both (it can get confusing), but usually "relationship".

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How can she believe these kids are feeling loved by her?


Focus on your R with your kids, not hers. That's for her to resolve, not you.

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I will freely admit to being dense but when I KNOW I am hurting someone I love I STOP, at least temporarily until I forget again.


You don't get it. That's OK, few of us did in the beginning. Her logic and reason have checked out, they're on a beach in Hawaii somewhere. Her emotions are running the show. People who act purely on emotions are irrational, they do and say contradictory things. It makes no sense. Sound familiar?

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The whole GAL thing I read about is totally unappealing right now. I don't want a life. I want a life with my wife.


Boy do I remember being there. But I did try it, and it was HARD WORK at first. But it got better and better. It really is the road to recovery, and it really is the best way to attract your spouse back.

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The very thought of losing my wife scares me to death. I feel adrenaline surges many times each day.


Yeah, I had really bad anxiety too. Strangely not at first, but about a month after BD. I ended up getting med's for it. That helped a lot, and I only needed them temporarily.

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How long must I detach? Eventually household finances will need to be discussed, as my income doesn't cover the bills.


Detaching doesn't mean cut off all communications. It just means to pull back and give her time and space. It's OK to talk about day-to-day logistics.

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Will we ever talk about the relationship?


Only when she brings it up.

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What should my goal be?


To be an amazing listener. Listen intently, nod, make eye contact, validate her emotions.

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This all seems so PASSIVE...not my nature when dealing with problems.


It's not passive, it's just a different type of fighting. It's jujitsu. I can't remember where I copied it from, but this is great stuff:

When one person is wanting a divorce or is pulling away, and the other one doesn’t want it, there is a clash of wills.

There is tension.

There is stress.

So I’ve discovered the psychology of applying the jujitsu wrestling technique, where the wrestler uses the strength, energy and weight of his opponent to his own advantage, and to the disadvantage of his opponent.

We cannot get to the good feelings of your wife, husband or lover. We cannot get to those good feelings as long as this war is going on, as long as you communicate to her that you want something different from what she wants.

When the other person is pulling away from you or wanting a divorce or wanting separation, they are almost automatically on the opposite side of any fence that they perceive you as being on.

So use the jujitsu. Go with them.

Now here are five elements, five ideas, five strategies, all under the heading of the jujitsu technique.

1. Stop pressuring, stop criticizing, stop complaining, stop whining.

2. Agree with anything your mate says or does. Put a good name on it. Agree with their negative feelings.

You see, when the wife has a closed mind and is divorcing a husband, she is in love with her negative feelings. So she puts her negative feelings in charge of the door to her mind. And when you try to reason with her, you’re telling her that her negative feelings are wrong. That causes her negative feelings to lock the door tighter.

Agree with her negative feelings whatever they are.

Yes, this relationship is hopeless.

Yes, you will never be able to trust me. That’s exactly correct.

Do not defend yourself.

Just agree, sound sincere, and shut up.

3. Act perfectly happy about everything as it is.

The status quo as it is. Act perfectly happy. Enjoy your space. Enjoy your freedom. Tell them that they are correct that you all were getting too serious too fast or whatever their interpretation is that they’ve given to you. Agree with it, and act happy about whatever it is that they want.

4. Make them jealous. Play hard-to-get.

5. Do everything instantly and happily, one hundred percent your mate’s way.


Me: 60 w/ S18, D24, D27

M: 21 years; BD: 06-14-12; S: 09-10-12; D final: 03-17-14; XW:57