He's Just Not That Into You

[labug]

RLA, if he can't get over the A and truly forgive, what chance do you have?

You wronged, you admitted it, you apologized, asked forgiveness. What is left, immolation?

There are wounds that some people can't heal from, it just sounds like he can't admit that and hurting people hurt other people.

Spend some time just reflecting on what you want and who you want to be. Do you stay because you think you deserve the punishment?

[Breakdown]

Regret, needgrace posted this on my thread and I thought it was the essence of my initial advice to you so I thought I'd re-post.

People often accuse their partners of being "controlling." Some people ARE controlling. However, show me a marriage where one spouse is considered controlling and I will show you a marriage where the other spouse often fails to take a strong stand on things that are important to him or her OR simply stuffs feelings inside so the "controlling" spouse remains in the dark. If someone is in the dark about their partners' true feelings, they can't take those feelings into account. If you have a "controlling spouse," learn how to stand your ground or draw a line in the sand. Divorce doesn't solve the problem. Working on it does. - Michele Weiner-Davis (via @ Divorce Busting)

Hang in there.

[Wendylon]

RegretfulLA,

Your H sounds so much like mine. They speak from the same script--nothing going on with OW, loving their family...

I'm sorry because I know how painful it all feels.

I don't see our Hs changing very much but I do think that the Rs can work (with different expectations of them).

I'm sorry you're still on the pullout bed. When he's away, maybe you can reclaim your bed and stay in it for a bit.

It may not be a bad thing that you're not in a nurturing mood. Hang in there and you'll have a chance to regroup when he's away.

[mamabird]

There are wounds that some people can't heal from, it just sounds like he can't admit that and hurting people hurt other people.

Spend some time just reflecting on what you want and who you want to be. Do you stay because you think you deserve the punishment?

For the record, I am definitely considering D as one of my options. It isn't my first choice but it has to be in the consideration set because I think it's more likely than not that I will have to go there.

The reason I stay is NOT because I think I deserve the punishment. I have forgiven myself entirely, and I am completely aware of environmental factors that drove me to make the destructive choices that I did. I also know that if the environment doesn't change, I'll be tempted to do it again.

The reason I stay is because I want to give us a real chance to fix the situation. We haven't been to proper MC, we've been dicking around and not dealing with any of it. Any MC we've gone to has focused on my transgressions and nothing of his shortcomings in the R. Now that I have the perspective and the distance, I can honestly say "Here are the things that I think we need to fix in order to have a healthy M."

My IC told me that D needs to be intentional, not reactionary. My H wants to make it reactionary and I'm only trying to block that part of it. I'm not necessarily opposed to D if it's the right thing.

Breakdown - thanks for the quote. I saw that floating around and it's very good advice. I am hoping that our MC will hold my H accountable for some of the issues that we are facing.

Wendy - you bet I am sleeping in that bed!

As far as OW is concerned, H continues to insist that they are just friends and nothing more. I say, "It takes one to know one." I have decided to drop it for now because it's not really the issue. Plus I already said on here that I have compassion for him if he's really as attached to her as it seems.

A little update from this morning - H's ankle still hurts him but I've done nothing more than show him cursory concern at this point. While I was straightening up the bedroom I found an email he had printed out from his trainer back in Sept with a menu on it (Wendy you are going to like this one) - and his response to her was that he'd do the shopping and get going on that right away, which of course he didn't. The reason I mention it here though is that he also told the trainer in this email that she needed to make sure there was "no more griping about his (STBX) wife."

I called him out on it - not angrily, I just read it out loud and said, "Nice sentiment, that's really great." Of course, he didn't respond whatsoever. I just asked him again to get an appointment with the MC this week.

I then let him know - again, not angrily - that Nosy Neighbor had been gossiping about us, and told him that it had all come back to me via our next door neighbor. I told him he needed to be careful about what he tells her. Again, no response.

What I could use in this R is a lot more humility from him. He has no idea how to be accountable or to apologize genuinely and that's a real issue for me. Another deal breaker in fact. I can live with the messiness, the forgetfulness, the laziness, the ADD behavior and not knowing what is going on even if I tell him 4 times, but I CANNOT and WILL NOT be in a M where I am not respected and valued. Honored and cherished would be nice too.

[Breakdown]

I can live with the messiness, the forgetfulness, the laziness, the ADD behavior and not knowing what is going on even if I tell him 4 times, but I CANNOT and WILL NOT be in a M where I am not respected and valued. Honored and cherished would be nice too.

This reminds me of the discussion my W and I had Sat. Well, honestly, it's been a recurring discussion, but still. She said she never felt like she was a partner in the M, that she was never put on equal footing with me. She is absolutely correct on this point and I didn't really change that until the past year (she says she's felt like a partner the last "few weeks"....well, I guess it's sinking it, though slowly lol).

Anyway, I mention this because our dynamics sound a lot alike and I had this superiority complex thing for along time. It's taken a lot of work to get where I'm at and I suspect, it'll be the same for your H. You'll likely have to draw a line in the sand to get that treatment, but even so, he'll have to be in a place where he is willing to listen and want to make the change.

I don't have as much experience as a lot of the folks here, but it seems to me your sitch is moving to a new phase where you're going to have to make some changes and be strong, much like when you moved back into the house.

[mamabird]

H is out of town for the next 48 hours and I'm grateful for the break. Going to try to be as dark as possible during that time.

I don't have as much experience as a lot of the folks here, but it seems to me your sitch is moving to a new phase where you're going to have to make some changes and be strong, much like when you moved back into the house.

Absolutely. This thing with OW has enabled me to detach and so I'm not so worried about doing something that will upset H or drive him further away. It is time to get down to business.

[25yearsmlc]

RLA, if he can't get over the A and truly forgive, what chance do you have?

Great question. Sadly, the answer really is "NO CHANCE" at all.

You wronged, you admitted it, you apologized, asked forgiveness. What is left, immolation?

Another great question. I'll gander a guess....um, More prolonged torture and humiliation...a form of immolation, but slower I guess. And its more subtle, so she can still get to be "wrong."

There are wounds that some people can't heal from, it just sounds like he can't admit that and hurting people hurt other people.

Inertia has a lot of power, plus he can still see HER pain by watching it and not letting go. Forgiving is hard but what he does not know, is that holding onto his anger will cost him more in the long run, than letting go would

Spend some time just reflecting on what you want and who you want to be. Do you stay because you think you deserve the punishment?

I've wondered the same thing. Behaviorally, your first "EA" was a few lunches in a r that could not lead anywhere since he lived far away and was married and neither of you crossed the line.

You have become convinced that your "EA" with that man was the same type of R that your h flaunts in your face. It's not the same in part BECAUSE he flaunts it in your face so he is being blatantly punitive.

Until you said you were "in love" w/OM1, I would not have thought twice about the friendship. Glad you were honest.

How'd your h react to it or does he know? IF he does know, why does he?

Did HE work on improving the marriage when he found out? OR did he just sulk and blame?

Not sure what the 2nd A was like or entailed, but I hope something was learned by ALL involved...b/c if nothing changes, then...nothing changes.

Right? Only you decide "how long" and I get that. I went for 2 years in limbo however I knew our finances at the time could handle it AND I had an internal timeline and goal...our d2 was in high school and I wanted to provide stability for her til she finished.

And we did provide some "stability" or as much as I could, given the givens...

figure out those factors too. But know in your heart that if the time comes, and I fear it will, that you CAN/WILL be alright without him.

He's an active negative in your life atm, and that might change.

But if not, and then you release him, you will have improved your life.

Take comfort in the fact that you DO have choices here. You are not trapped.

[25yearsmlc]

it's weird that he can have this 'EA' with OW and not call it one.


But what did you DO with OM1 that was different? I mean, how can only you be guilty?

Stay strong. I'm SO glad you forgave yourself. Your focus on "what to DO, NOW" is totally healthy and appropriate.

Good job!

[mamabird]

Thanks 25 - appreciate the support.

My sitch with OM1 is slightly more complicated than it seems on the surface. YES, nothing "happened." YES, it was only a few lunches. However, OM1 was unmarried and very single at the time all of this started, and had I been same it would have been ON. He only moved across the world a few months ago, and only got married because he knocked up his W. Barely knew her.

I really was madly in love with him. (OM1 was not aware of that, nor was he really aware of any of the drama concerning him until I finally told him the whole story after BD in June.) I did invite him to a party we had without telling H, and I did continue the friendship even after H found out about it and asked me not to. These things were wrong and insensitive. Then we saw OM1 at a party and I spoke to him for a while and H got very upset about that. So I was repeatedly disrespectful to H with respect to OM1. These were the things that I did. However, the texts between H and OW are not benign IMO (at least on H's part) and so I have to say it's an EA regardless of what he says.

H initially found out about OM1 because I guess I was acting weird and he decided to look at an email I had sent from my FB account telling my friend about OM1. H confronted me and I was so detached by that point that I could not really respond to H in a way that he would have wanted me to. I never told H that I was "in love" with OM1 but he figured it out on his own.

We did go to MC for a while, but as I said it was mostly focused on me. H did try harder for a while but we never got to the root of our problems and so nothing really got permanently resolved. After a while we fell back into the same old patterns... leading to OM2. I was not in love with OM2 and basically knew that I was using him as a form of self-medication because by that point, my job and my marriage both were a complete misery. I was on my way out of my job but lacked the self-awareness to know what to do about my M.

So H's narrative and statement is "she cheated on me twice." When he says this, he makes me sound like a whore, and I never came close to sleeping with either of them. The truth is, that I was tremendously unhappy, had a chance at a better R w OM1 but decided not to take it because my own H wanted to commit to improving things. OM2 also had a little revenge aspect to it because by that time the verbal abuse was in full swing and H was threatening D right and left. I'm not proud of it, but at least I own it.

At this point, I'll take it as it comes. I'm not proud of my choices but I know why I made them and I know now that the factors that contributed to those choices are unacceptable for me in any R. I have come a long way to get to this point and I know that if it comes to D, I will be ok without H, if not better off. It all comes down to whether H can understand my issues and truly step up to the plate in many respects. If he really tries, I'll continue to give it time. Whether he can or will try remains to be seen.

[2chiquitos]

oh RegretfulLA,
You just reminded me when I caught hints of Hs affair in the beginning. He said NOTHING to make me feel better. Not even an I'm sorry. Reading your side of it, I realize he was seriously detached by then which is probably why we've been in this sitch for so long.

I hope your H is willing to try again. It seems as if he's all tired out from trying. Let me know when you do go to MC and how it goes. Do your homework and get a good one ;-) I got a male because I knew that would help H open up more. And I didn't say much in the beginning to allow H to also open up. He struggles to express himself and I needed him to talk.