Back again thread #2

[MKB23]

So I figured it was about time to start a new thread.
I will link them. My original thread: http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2291327&page=1


So in a nutshell- I have determined a pattern we have upon contact where he pushes buttons, I react, then he of course can say AhA see there you are angry and fight all the time.
Another issue is he has not been visiting the kids or calling. He feels he cannot make contact for me. (this is NOT true) again he says I fight and cause a problem. I really think by saying this he is avoiding responsibility and trying to help his guilt.
Yesterday, he was supposed to come and get them and spend time with the kids. He didn't call until late at which point we had made other plans. So I told him no, that we had made other plans and in the future he would need to call at least the day before to set up a pick up and drop off time. Really I think this is not in any way difficult or being unreasonable on my part. A problem has been that he says he will be here then doesn't show on time. Picks them up late and brings them back early. Compounding our problems he is talking to XW1 again. He began talking to her 2 weeks after he left here. In a nutshell, having all those OW feelings with her. It was soooo easy to fall right back into all of that. My guess is she is not real thrilled at my kids taking "her" time.
So after we had words yesterday I felt bad.
Because frankly, that is my nature. I REALLY do not like conflict. Last night, I called him, I said, I am sorry we had words. His response - "You need to apologize to the kids" I assume he still thinks I am trying to be vindictive. Not so. I am just tired of waiting on him. I am tired of watching my kids sit at the window looking for him. Not making plans because he is so up in the air about everything. I am a planner. I have to be to keep 4 kids, all their activities, appointments, and mine in line. I digress. At this point I said "what? I am calling to apologize to you for our having an argument. I shouldn't have raised my voice and said hurtful things to you. He said whatever you want to play hardball I can too. So at that point I said I stand by what I said regarding visitation. You need to call and set up a pick up and drop off time and stick to it. It is only fair to everyone." So that set him off again. It ended with him screaming at me to "Not call him again tonight" and he hung up on me. I didn't raise my voice or get a tone this time. Nothing rude from me. I also of course didn't call back.

I felt like a complete idiot. Why in the world would I apologize to someone who is obviously irrational most of the time? Stupid. Stupid. Stupid.

The limits are NOT sitting well with him. Please tell me this is the right thing to do. Not just for all of our sanity but setting limits, restoring respect for my M. Right? Maybe?

Now here I sit, it is Sunday. I hate Sundays. That was the day we spent with the kids, had a big dinner, that sort of thing. It was our family day.
Bah.

Hope everyone is having a good day. I am going to try to check in other threads.

[scaredsilly]

After he said you need to apologize To the kids, you should have just said something like, "well, I just wanted to tell you I'm sorry. Talk to you later."

Instead, you lost control of yourself. You blame him for "pushing my buttons". Only you are in control of your behavior. All else is just blaming and making excuses for yourself and your reactions to another person.

You are 100% responsible for your words and reactions to another person's words. Only when you recognize your part and what you need to change and what you can and cannot change, will things start getting better for you.

Good luck and keep trying.

[labug]

How a person accepts your apology is really not the issue. You felt you needed to apologize and you did.

Or did you apologize hoping to get a different reaction from him?

In that case the apology wasn't really an apology.

You can only control you, what he does or says, he does or says. Let it roll off your back.

Don't let him "push your buttons"-walk away, end the conversation.

You can do this.

[MKB23]

I know that. You do not think I should have reiterated the visitation? I didn't feel as though I lost control or anything else. I am curious why that is your impression.

[scaredsilly]

An apology is not the time to set limits. And the timing sounded like retaliation for what he said. He did not do well in accepting your apology. In fact, he took the opportunity to slam you and try to control you. You came back with your control. See what happened?

[MKB23]

When put that way.
I do. To be honest, almost everything I say seems to feel like he takes an opportunity to slam me. How do I respond to that? It is so hard for me to let it go. I guess because often it is unfair. In the sense that it seems he has a preconceived notion of what I mean or am thinking that simply isn't accurate. Yet, the more I protest and try to clarify the worse the situation becomes and eventually I blow up back.

How do I go about setting limits without a horrifying confrontation? I posted before but honestly, he has been angry, REALLY angry with me for at least a week. Every single interaction I feel like he attacks. He also ends them with "why would I want to be with you?" I think he is confused and part of his anger. I dunno. It doesn't really matter what I think at this point though.
I need to really identify the things I am doing that is prompting this reaction. I didn't really realize at the time until you pointed it out that I shouldn't have done that.
Your input greatly helps! I appreciate that!

Do you think the attacking is his attempt to control? And that is why he keeps coming back to that and it gets more and more heated each time?

[labug]

Think about this:

Do you always have to be right?

Do you always need to have the last word?

I used to do that, guess where it got me?

Here.

Let things go, he can have his opinion, his thoughts, his feelings.

Have you read about validating?

It doesn't mean you agree, just that you understand he has a different viewpoint.

[MKB23]

Think about this:

Do you always have to be right?

Do you always need to have the last word?

I used to do that, guess where it got me?

Here.

Let things go, he can have his opinion, his thoughts, his feelings.

Have you read about validating?

It doesn't mean you agree, just that you understand he has a different viewpoint.

Yes, I do have a problem with being right all the time. I didn't realize how this was contributing in things like this. I feel like I am such a terrible mess. Seems like I work on one area and then something else comes up. Thanks Bug for stopping in and offering your insight.

[scaredsilly]

You're not a mess. Unfortunately, most of us did not have the type of parents who validated OUR feelings which helped us become defensive.

It's a tough row to hoe but if you try to remember what he says about you is his opinion (at the moment) or his way to inflict pain on you because he's in pain, and does NOT define you or who you want to be, then it may be easier to refrain from defending yourself and easier to validate his FEELINGS or just to step back and disengage.

You don't have to correct his opinion of you or set him straight. In fact, at this point in your relationship, you absolutely can't. Each attempt to do so will fail and only make him angrier because you are telling him HE'S WRONG.

Your boundaries have to be expressed in a non-threatening way and not as an ultimatum. You may have to email them. I don't recommend you speak to him about boundaries until you are a little more dispassionate about them.

Boundaries let someone know what you need and what will happen in they're not respected. For example, your custody arrangements are all over the place right now. That's fertile ground for problems and disappointments.

Try to find something that comes close to working for both of you. If he can be scheduled a regular time, it's fair for you to get 24 hours notice and if you don't, to make other plans. It's also kind to try to be accommodating and enlist his help in working out what's best for him.

No matter what happens to your M, it's imparitive that the two of you start setting a better example for your children on how adults and parents find solutions to their differences.

[Tumbling]

MKB you are not alone
I still suffer with the need to be right
but I am learning, as Labug correctly stated above, Being right does not get me anywhere (or at least not in good relationships with people - friends, family, spouse)

Susan Page (Book - if we're so in love, why aren't we happy - that I dashed upstairs and pulled off a shelf when I read this thread) says "Being right is the booby prize of life, because you do get to be right, but that is all you get. You don't get to be closer to your partner. You don't get to allow your partner to feel closer to you".

And I so understand your "seems like I work on one area and then something else comes up" but don't look at it negatively - this is a journey of self discovery. With every new piece of understanding we are growing to be best people we can be. As your signature states "work in progress" and like you I am still learning about me; my behaviours and thoughts that trigger nasty voices/feelings and YOU are helping me do that. We are all growing and learning about our Selves together.

PS You are NOT a mess - none of us are - we just might need to tweak a few areas

The road to success is ALWAYS under construction