WAW seems to be making positive steps...whattodo?

[Dm45]

you are coming across as someone who won't listen. I say that b/c the book you say you have read more than once, answers your questions and so have we.

I am trying to change my thinking. The DR goes against mainstream thinking and gut reactions, I think it even says that. Please don't give up on us!

imo, you have been a bully to her.

Raising your voice is an act of intimidation. When my father did it, OR my h, I literally no longer cared or even "heard" the content of what he said. I felt berated so the content of the words was totally irrelevant. I was being bullied. This is especially true if you are physically larger than your w.

Yes. I grieve over that. I chafe at the word "bully", bust must admit it is true.

You admit you are critical of her and that isn't loving. Ironically, SHE is the one who worked two jobs to compensate for your persisting at a failure endeavor. Maybe it's a need to be "right" or a form of stubborness that served you well elsewhere, but it's NOT helping you in the marriage.

Yes. I think I was able to "180" in this area last night? See below...

Did you ever really THANK her for all her work? I get the impression you didn't. You were negatively focussed on your business and didn't notice the negative impact your choices had on her.

Thanked her, but not enough. A card or note here and there, quarterly at most.

NOW she's gone...

Your constant need to contact her or get her to read something to change her mind, instead of addressing her numerous valid complaints about you being mean, impatient, critical to her AND allowing her to work TWO jobs while you stubbornly pursued a losing proposition, is a lot for you to work on.

I am not sure your energy ought to be aimed at what SHE should read. Like I said, let her/your counselor make suggestions to you both. Have you done any individual counselling or reading on not being critical? On better listening?

Shouldn't that be your focus?

Yes, lots to work on. And that's where I need to focus. Counseling yes. Counselor had us read Cracking the Communication Code. W said she put it down when 1st few chapters talked about respecting each other because she doesn't respect me right now.

She is scheduled for counseling on 11/11 or 12.

We suggest you detach, lovingly. That is to protect you AND so you can Work on YOU and after sufficient time, let her notice the differences in you.

She fell in love w/you for a reason. What were you like THEN? Be that guy again.

Seems like most or all the things I did back then would push her away now.

IF she says "too little too late" -which she may believe at the moment-- your reply has to be consistent with the idea YOU WANT to make these changes anyhow

we had this type of exchange a couple weeks ago.

You may even thank her for the "awakening" b/c I'm betting you'll be less critical with the kids too. That will make you a better dad. If you say you were never critical or short tempered with them or that you were lovingly attentive, then in a way it's weirder b/c it means you took out your frustrations on your w, the last person who deserved it. OR are these traits you more or less distributed around?

I believe from the beginning I was successful shielding kids from SOME of my nastiness. Sarcasm, etc. Other things like intimidation to get obedience not so much.

If the kids ask what is going on, you can own YOUR PART in why she left.

Kids need to know they are loved and your son not believing it, is sad. Your job is to protect them not to punish her. I am not saying to lie for her but I DO think you played a role in this and you can't hide.

Kids know what's going on. I have owned my part with them and apologized, asked forgiveness for not being the man I should be. We pray together for her often, that her heart would soften.

As for the OM, that's a toughie. Some folks around here want you to expose her (which I think is the same as punishing or shaming and does NOT work long term)

but more importantly, it's NOT the DB way and if you are in doubt, read the book again.

There is no exposing. Everyone knows where she is.

You seem torn between your need to DO something, (which we all had!!!) and what you know will be interpreted as "controlling" by the WAS.

YES

Thank for your help. Since my last post, here's what has happened. I think I did some 180's?

15 yr old son...phone call from school..disruptive in class..discussed it with him rather than yelling, etc.

Missed bus...same, just said aww man now we'll all be late..

W texted she wants to see kids, can't live w/out them. I texted back do you want me to talk to them and see what they say? She said ok.

She called w/in hour. Teary. "I know what they are going to say". I have to be careful here because what I want and what the kids insist on happens to be the same. Asked if she thought about their feelings. Said she thought they should be glad because she got out of a very sad situation for herself..............I eventually was able to say, in so many words, my actions over years have communicated lack of love to her. Her actions, though directed at me, are perceived as lack of love by them. Shotgun effect. We mentioned several living options for her, friends, I move out, etc. but she said "can't just move, there's details" Me "what details" her "Don't want to talk about it, I just seem to hurt everyone I touch" Me, "well your actions communicate to kids that they are less important to u than this man" I told her how our feelings at wedding blinded us to possibility of now, and feelings now blind to possibility of better future. Can't remember whole conversation, it was 30 minutes, but thats the gist. I was not loud. Not happy, either, but calm I think in light of the topic. What I learned is she's stuck on this guy somehow. She said "I don't know what to do" at want point. "I said what's the right thing?" she said " I know the right thing. Your always right. I have to do what you want to do what's right. It's so black and white for you u always know what to do ... I took opportunity to AGAIN say something like, for years I've been doing wrong to you, hurting you, so no, not always right. I'm telling you I am repenting of all that. Some things are black and white. I don't fault u for needing time away from me I've been terrible. But the adultery issue is black and white.

Later she texted me "sorry if I was nasty" I said me too.

Later she went to a banquet, where my daughter also attended. Afterwards she texted "d looked beautiful as usual. Afraid to speak to her. But so happy to see her."

I said "takes after her mom" 180?

She said "ha.nope she is gorgeous"

I said "it breaks my heart that you saw d and weren't able to speak to her" 180?

She said "me too. Wanted to but didn't want to upset her."

I said "How can I help you"180?

She said " just pray that the old (name withheld) will come back.

Me, "Every minute of every day. You must know that"
Her "I have been praying more-Every day even. That's progress"
Me "yes. Reading Bible?
Her "No"
Me, " Need one?"
Her, "kindle"
Me psalms
Her ok easy.
Me ha. Some are, I read 51 a lot. And 77 and 88

Conversation dwindled to good night, and maybe well talk tomorrow.

Progress? I know the phone conversation may have gone into territory it shouldn't?