BTW, W did give me a hand made birthday card with what I think is a Buddhist blessing in it "May the flower of love bloom in your heart and guide your way forever" as well as a T-shirt.
Now hear this. The T-shirt has a picture of a sexy vampire and the caption "Thou shall not crave thy neighbour". I'm not sure if she got the irony of it but it wouldn't surprise me, her English is excellent.
Freshman Class of 2012
M-49 W-42 1D-10 T 10 YEARS M 9 YEARS EA/MLC 07/2010 Separation 28/05/2012 PA confirmed 31/07/12 W Asked for D 31/07/12 D on and off the table since then
How about you let her travel her own path without you for a while so that she doesn't feel controlled? So that she can decide for herself what she wants for her life? I'm sorry, but that is the only answer.
Yes Denver. I agree. I guess I got carried away with what I saw as progress and reading (or misreading) the "signs". I tried to rush things and now I'm feeling it. In the end, W still isn't here, she is still with OM and she still won't reconsider so I guess in a sense I'm no worse than yesterday but I felt horrible and extremely anxious all day.
On the up side, I've got a bit of new intel re: why she fell in love with me and based on what she told me, it might be something that would still work in my favor.
Other intel also about the fact that she sees my standing as an act of control. Like I'm trying to manipulate her in doing what I want her to do.
She also said that she was tired of trying to please everyone, that she felt that even now she was still trying to please me. I asked her if she was trying to please OM. She said she didn't.
I know I'm probably torturing myself for nothing but I keep rehashing the convo in my head and there are still so many things that she says that don't make sense and don't fit with her statement that she's happy and that she is doing what she wants. Besides, if someone repeats they are happy every other sentence, you feel like they are trying to convince themselves.
It looks like her entire band (including OM) abandoned her with her Saturday gig where the owners left the country for a month. That's why she had to rehearse with another guitarist. She's going to do it as a duet. That's always been a problem around here. Musicians are mercenary. They are only loyal to the pay check. She's also been told that if she wanted a certain gig, she had to get a second singer and that they might have to change the style of music they do. Another sign that there is no such thing as total freedom.
On top of that, another bar where she used to play won't give her work with her present band. They want her to sing with their own musicians. This might have to do with OM as that's where she was playing when she started her EA 2 years ago. That type of stuff is frowned upon in these parts.
She's having to take on more and more teaching hours (which pays very little) and she has less and less time to work on her music. She wanted to work on her own songs but now all of that is on hold because of time and money.
She also said a lot of conflicting stuff about "us". For example, I had mentioned possibly taking D8 to Vietnam for the Christmas holiday. We can get cheap flights from here and we have a few friends living there. D8 was excited and told W about it. W then suggested we could also go to another neighbouring country where her sister lives in a very touristic area so D8 could spend time with her cousin. D8 really liked that idea. So last night, I just mentioned in passing if it really would be ok for me and D8 to go there. W replied that she might be working and might not be able to come with us but that if she does we could still go on our own. She spoke as if we were planning a family holiday. I didn't ask what she meant.
She seems to want to push me to see other women. No matter what I say to her, she keeps telling me to do so. I'm sure part of it is to alleviate the guilt she feels and to perhaps lessen my pain but I was wondering today if it wasn't a ploy to see how she feels about it.
I don't know, a lot about the convo tells me she's done, but I feel that there is still some love in her. Afterall, we managed to have a bit of a laugh throughout this otherwise serious convo and she often smiled while looking in my eyes.
Also, the way she seems to evade questions which would reveal too much about how unsure she is about things and the way she goes back to her Buddhist mantra that none of it matters and that we are all one, when ever a tough question was asked tells me that there is also lots of confusion and uncertainty.
I know exactly what I need to do but I'm not sure if I can. As many of you have mentioned I need to switch my focus on myself and D8 and put some distance between W and I. I need to detach and step up on GAL. It's too bad because since I had to cancel my gig last week because of the accident, it looks like I might now have lost it all together. That was one thing that helped me GAL. I'll see if I can get something elsewhere. It feels like so many of the projects I had on the go just stopped moving for some reasons. I'll look at my options and see if I can find ways to get them to pick up again. I really need to find something positive to focus on.
Beardown, thanks for dropping by. I agree with you that our sitches kind of follow one another although I had a first bout in 2010 when W met her OM and had an EA. Your W also seems to be showing interest in you while still seeing OM. Like Denver says, it all depends on your pain threshold. I though I could do this for a long time but I think I'm reaching mine now. I have to be careful though, because W is also the sponsor for the Visa I need to be here and we have many "immigration dates" together. I don't think she would do it but she could still tell me that I'm on my own and then I'd need to find another way to stay here or I'd have to leave.
I'll keep an eye on you mate.
Cheers
I definitely spent an inordinate amount of time rehashing the latest R talk that W and I had... going over every word she said, every tone she took, every silence...
But it got me nowhere in the end... And you'll find the same thing.
It simply leads to more mind-reading... and more... and more... until you've convinced yourself that you know what was going on in her brain... which is never 100% right... hell it's rarely even 50% right.
So Arsene, I know you know this, and I know you've heard it a thousand times... But something tells me it's starting to sink in more now.
It's time to let her go. Let her go live life WITHOUT you for a while.
You know what a GREAT exercise for you might be? How about looking into a different way to get your Visa sponsored? I'm no expert, but I'm SURE there are other ways to stick around rather than consistently torturing yourself like this...
Plus, do you know how empowering that would be? Can you imagine? And if you need a little extra motivation... I'm pretty sure your W would take a pretty HUGE notice of that particular action... could get her thinking...
How about you let her travel her own path without you for a while so that she doesn't feel controlled? So that she can decide for herself what she wants for her life? I'm sorry, but that is the only answer.
^^^I second this notion.
third... so does that make it pass....
Flowers always make people better, happier, and more helpful; they are sunshine, food and medicine for the soul. unconditional love is awesome!
I am trying to do the same thing. She has completely cutting off communication with me including when the girls stay home sick from school, etc. I am giving her the space she needs. I need the space as well.
BD: 8/20/2012 W Files: 8/23/2012 S: 8/25/2012 (I moved out) D Final: 3/5/2013
How about you let her travel her own path without you for a while so that she doesn't feel controlled? So that she can decide for herself what she wants for her life? I'm sorry, but that is the only answer.
^^^I second this notion.
third... so does that make it pass....
Fourth, and I call the question, Mr. Chairman.
Oh, and Arsene: it isn't "intel" when it's the foggy words from a wayward's mouth. That is more like "fogged-out psychobabble" at BEST, and gaslighting DECEIT at worst.
Yes Denver. I agree. I guess I got carried away with what I saw as progress and reading (or misreading) the "signs". I tried to rush things and now I'm feeling it. In the end, W still isn't here, she is still with OM and she still won't reconsider so I guess in a sense I'm no worse than yesterday but I felt horrible and extremely anxious all day.
On the up side, I've got a bit of new intel re: why she fell in love with me and based on what she told me, it might be something that would still work in my favor.
Other intel also about the fact that she sees my standing as an act of control. Like I'm trying to manipulate her in doing what I want her to do.
She also said that she was tired of trying to please everyone, that she felt that even now she was still trying to please me. I asked her if she was trying to please OM. She said she didn't.
I know I'm probably torturing myself for nothing but I keep rehashing the convo in my head and there are still so many things that she says that don't make sense and don't fit with her statement that she's happy and that she is doing what she wants. Besides, if someone repeats they are happy every other sentence, you feel like they are trying to convince themselves.
It looks like her entire band (including OM) abandoned her with her Saturday gig where the owners left the country for a month. That's why she had to rehearse with another guitarist. She's going to do it as a duet. That's always been a problem around here. Musicians are mercenary. They are only loyal to the pay check. She's also been told that if she wanted a certain gig, she had to get a second singer and that they might have to change the style of music they do. Another sign that there is no such thing as total freedom.
On top of that, another bar where she used to play won't give her work with her present band. They want her to sing with their own musicians. This might have to do with OM as that's where she was playing when she started her EA 2 years ago. That type of stuff is frowned upon in these parts.
She's having to take on more and more teaching hours (which pays very little) and she has less and less time to work on her music. She wanted to work on her own songs but now all of that is on hold because of time and money.
She also said a lot of conflicting stuff about "us". For example, I had mentioned possibly taking D8 to Vietnam for the Christmas holiday. We can get cheap flights from here and we have a few friends living there. D8 was excited and told W about it. W then suggested we could also go to another neighbouring country where her sister lives in a very touristic area so D8 could spend time with her cousin. D8 really liked that idea. So last night, I just mentioned in passing if it really would be ok for me and D8 to go there. W replied that she might be working and might not be able to come with us but that if she does we could still go on our own. She spoke as if we were planning a family holiday. I didn't ask what she meant.
She seems to want to push me to see other women. No matter what I say to her, she keeps telling me to do so. I'm sure part of it is to alleviate the guilt she feels and to perhaps lessen my pain but I was wondering today if it wasn't a ploy to see how she feels about it.
I don't know, a lot about the convo tells me she's done, but I feel that there is still some love in her. Afterall, we managed to have a bit of a laugh throughout this otherwise serious convo and she often smiled while looking in my eyes.
Also, the way she seems to evade questions which would reveal too much about how unsure she is about things and the way she goes back to her Buddhist mantra that none of it matters and that we are all one, when ever a tough question was asked tells me that there is also lots of confusion and uncertainty.
I know exactly what I need to do but I'm not sure if I can. As many of you have mentioned I need to switch my focus on myself and D8 and put some distance between W and I. I need to detach and step up on GAL. It's too bad because since I had to cancel my gig last week because of the accident, it looks like I might now have lost it all together. That was one thing that helped me GAL. I'll see if I can get something elsewhere. It feels like so many of the projects I had on the go just stopped moving for some reasons. I'll look at my options and see if I can find ways to get them to pick up again. I really need to find something positive to focus on.
Beardown, thanks for dropping by. I agree with you that our sitches kind of follow one another although I had a first bout in 2010 when W met her OM and had an EA. Your W also seems to be showing interest in you while still seeing OM. Like Denver says, it all depends on your pain threshold. I though I could do this for a long time but I think I'm reaching mine now. I have to be careful though, because W is also the sponsor for the Visa I need to be here and we have many "immigration dates" together. I don't think she would do it but she could still tell me that I'm on my own and then I'd need to find another way to stay here or I'd have to leave.
I'll keep an eye on you mate.
Cheers
I definitely spent an inordinate amount of time rehashing the latest R talk that W and I had... going over every word she said, every tone she took, every silence...
But it got me nowhere in the end... And you'll find the same thing.
It simply leads to more mind-reading... and more... and more... until you've convinced yourself that you know what was going on in her brain... which is never 100% right... hell it's rarely even 50% right.
So Arsene, I know you know this, and I know you've heard it a thousand times... But something tells me it's starting to sink in more now.
It's time to let her go. Let her go live life WITHOUT you for a while.
You know what a GREAT exercise for you might be? How about looking into a different way to get your Visa sponsored? I'm no expert, but I'm SURE there are other ways to stick around rather than consistently torturing yourself like this...
Plus, do you know how empowering that would be? Can you imagine? And if you need a little extra motivation... I'm pretty sure your W would take a pretty HUGE notice of that particular action... could get her thinking...
THAT is a VERY good post. AT is about to graduate to vet status... hell, maybe moderator!??
I absolutely KNOW how crappy it is to hear this advice Arsene. I know. I was the king at doing what AT described above (over analyzing etc.). It got me nowhere as well. And, for me, there was a time and a place for doing what you are doing (spending time with wife knowing she was nowhere ready to R). But I simply could not knowingly do it when OM was in the picture. Quite frankly, I believe that my W would have lost respect for me had I. That is a danger that you face as well. Would the guy that your W fell in love with allowed himself to be disrespected like that? My guess is that the answer is no.
You can be that guy that your W fell in love with... all of it... from afar... and you can do it without being DONE and without filing for a D. But the first step is making that decision.
M 43 X 38 T 13 W moves out of home 11/2010 Roller coaster from hell 2/2011-5/2012 I request divorce 5/2012 W moves home 6/2012 Good time 7/2012 - 1/2015 I leave 3/2016 process of divorce
Arsene, how many posts! First, what an awesome b-day surprise! Second, I agree with giving your W more space.
This is what my coach would say: she's giving you a message (whether that makes sense or not) and the message is: "I'm done. Find someone else. Don't you get it? What do I have to do for you to get it?" Could she change the way she feels? Of course. But for now, you must convey that you get it. She knows you love her, she knows you want to save your M. Now, she needs to know she's free to leave if she wants to. If she feels this, she'll also be free to come back to the M. Anyway, that's what my coach told me and it makes sense in these sitchs. The WAS is like a kid trying to establish her independence. Look at your W from this perspective.
Happy Belated Birthday Arsene. What a wonderful surprise from your students. :-)
TPS Me: 44 H: 42 M14 T17 S10 D7 10/10 H moves out after death of his father-same month 21/04/12 H is 'DONE' 04/05/12 OW/PA confirmed (rumors from 2010) July '14 H ends affair May '15 H moves back home
But I simply could not knowingly do it when OM was in the picture. Quite frankly, I believe that my W would have lost respect for me had I. That is a danger that you face as well. Would the guy that your W fell in love with allowed himself to be disrespected like that? My guess is that the answer is no.
