Riding the Bull

[AlkalineThoughts]

That didn't last. I did a major backslide and cornered W into R talk.

The details are up in the air but most of it was done calmly and the gist of it is that I told my W how I felt about her and OM and how it hurt me. I guess I just didn't want her to think I was ok with what she was doing. I also mentioned how I was standing for this marriage and how much I love her (I know!) and believe in her and all that stuff I should have kept for me.

Arsene, no one is perfect at this an no one does it exactly by the book... Plus, what's done is done, so no use in beating yourself up over it now... Learn a lesson, move one, and apply it next time...

It sounds like you started setting some boundaries, which is a good thing. The parts where you told her how it hurt you... well you were honest there, so that's good... but let's let that phrase die a horrible death now. IMO, the key to setting boundaries is to portray the inner STRENGTH you've found... Still, it's been said, and it's in her head now, so that's that.

I don't see anything wrong with telling her you believe in her or that you're standing for the marriage... although the latter may be stating the obvious. Expressing your love for her... well that's probably obvious too, but I understand the need to express that in this sitch.

She told me she felt like I was trying to control her by standing and I told her that no, I was doing what I wanted to do and if the time came when it wasn't what I wanted to do anymore, I'd stop doing it. I told her I was not telling her what to do, simply what I was doing.

This was to be expected... I hope you threw a little validation in here over the "control" issue.

She kept saying I should just move on and get another woman and leave her be. I told her that I didn't need or want another woman. That I was sure that if one day she reconsidered, we would be happier than we ever were and that we wouldn't just have an ordinary marriage. She said she didn't want to go back and that I should stop living in the past. I told her I didn't want to go back either. That I was talking about the future and that it was her who kept bringing out the past. I told her that the man I was then is no longer here and that she can let him go.

Here's where it sounds, to me at least, that it took a kinda nasty turn... It sounds a lot like you were blaming here here... by bringing up that she was the one who kept bringing up the past... by telling her how much you've changed... These things don't resonate in her head... These are passive-aggressive attacks... And you should truly ponder what she said here, about not living in the past... it's a key to your detachment.

She also said many times that it doesn't matter who one is with because it's just a process and we are all one. I told her that if it really didn't matter then why did she have to be with OM. If it didn't matter she could simply come back to her family. I told her that if for her it didn't matter for me and D8 it did.

More attacking and trying to change her mind via your words...

At one point, she also told me that she fell in love with me because she could talk to me, really talk. I asked if she felt she still could and she said that lately she did. Later she told me that she didn't talk to anyone anymore. That she was satisfied with basic mindless small-talk lately. The deep talks were just too involved and no one understood her anyway and it was too much to think about.

THIS should SCREAM at you how important detachment and separation are right NOW... If she's missing the deep conversations at some points... but then can get them from you whenever she wants (or whenever OM isn't up to task) then you'll be in the space your in for a VERY long time... Why not make her TRULY miss them?

During this convo, I managed to also tell her how I would appreciate if she minimized the use of her phone when she was around. And to generally show a bit more sensitivity when she comes around and try to put herself in my shoes.
I also said that it would be great if she let me know when she'll be around to see D8 or to spend the night. She was quite angry on this one and it became an issue for some reason. I managed to calm her down and eventually she agreed that it would be courteous to do so and would avoid misunderstandings.

Remember anger isn't always a bad thing... It's good that you set these, admittedly soft, boundaries. NOW, you need to make absolutely sure that you're ready to enforce them... Have you thought about the consequences for her breaking them?

Not my finest hour for sure. But if I lost my mind, I never lost my head and stayed calm and somewhat composed and upbeat during most of the convo. Except for on bit where W felt trapped and started fighting, the whole convo was from light enough with the odd humorous comment to serious with the both of us looking deeply into each others' eyes. I was overall able to show a bit of poise and confidence even though in retrospect an outsider might have detected the odd moment of pathos as well.

Anyway, towards the end things calmed down and I managed to bring light humor in the convo once again and even to flirt a bit (I know!).

During this convo, W laughed, cried, was angry, was concerned, smiled, joked and we ended up hugging, during which she pulled me back when I tried to release.

I'm a big proponent of throwing in humor into these heady conversations... it helps break the tension and allows you to regain a bit of control over the direction...

Again, I point out the things I've pointed out not to be punitive or scold you in any way... just to try to help with the lessons you'll learn going forward, for the next conversation... Although I'm clearly no expert!

I'm not sure what it accomplished or whether it will be positive or negative but I'll just go back to the plan for now, put extra efforts on GAL, and try to keep my mouth shut for the next little while...

...and DETACH, DETACH, DETACH!!!

It accomplished what you decide it accomplished... If you're true to the boundaries you set, and enforce them, then that's something positive to take out of this convo. And either way, you now have more information then when the conversation started, so that's good... But you said it yourself... It's time to REALLY focus on GAL and Detaching... don't let this conversation set you back... expect the "hangover" in both of your moods, but only focus on yourself here and how you'll use this as a positive moving forward.

And dig in a little deeper into this foxhole Arsene!