WAS vs. LBS

[lostsoul13]

Crazyville

I would die for my spouse to not walk away like you do. I would (already doing) change for the better and understand how to met your needs.

Too bad my W, isn't going to give me that chance. In the last 2 months, all i had to do is remember my priority in life, family before work. Since then, i have went from a good to great dad (where the kids always want to be around me). More attentive to my W feelings and needs (really listening to her). But my work is suffering

Unfortunately W is still moving out and filing the papers, I guess because of the Other Man (so not even sure, if i can define my spouse as a WAW)

Your H is starting to sound stubborn, but we don't know his side of the story. I can see why you are frustrated with his efforts but some of this can be percieved as taking too much notice in his negatives.

Does he have any positives for you? For every negative he has, can you list positives? Or is the positives not meeting your love language and that is why you don't care?

[Crazyville]

Hi lostsoul13, thanks for dropping in. Seeing your stat info, it's really hard for me to imagine leaving a year after having a child together. It seems like something had to be good enough in order for that to happen. Plus, knowing what I know about D and kids, I think I would just be at a different place than your W. I'm sorry for the sitch you and your kids are in.

For me, there is no OM, so that obviously makes it easier to stay, at least in not having someone/somewhere else to go to, pulling at me. However, it does make it harder to get my emotional needs met. I've had opportunity for pick-ups (no thanks) but a deep connection with OM isn't likely. I work from home and spend a lot of time with S, whereas your W obviously had that opportunity. It isn't right, but I can certainly see the appeal. To be completely honest, I'm not sure I would have the will-power to resist it if I found someone I was connecting with like that. I would not, however, with the plans I have to stay until S12 is out, go looking for something. I suspect, for you, OM is one of the hardest aspects to deal with. ((())) Kudos to you for continuing to try to reconcile in spite of.

Does he have any positives for you? For every negative he has, can you list positives? Or is the positives not meeting your love language and that is why you don't care?

Oh, he definitely has positives. He's not a horrible person. It's just that his positives aren't positive for me. For example, as I mentioned in my previous post, he'll drop whatever he's doing to help out a friend, but that includes me. If I need him for X, and the neighbor needs him for Y, he'll help the neighbor. So, yes, it's a positive that he's so helpful, it's just that I'm not the beneficiary. He's also quite good at golf and softball, but I don't play either. He loves his kids, but does so more than me. If they want one thing and I want something else, they win, his logic being that majority vote wins. Well, if it's going to be 1 of me against 4 of them, then I'll never get what I want. So again, devoted father, but at my expense.

My top two love languages are honesty/openness and conversation. To the first, he has proven repeatedly that he's comfortable lying to me when it benefits him, so honesty is not something I'm going to get with him. To conversation, he has explained to me that women have a greater need to talk than men, and therefore that's what my GF's are for. So unless I'm content just listening to his day or other superficial comments (the news, car needs to be re-licensed, taxes due, etc.) then I'm not going to get that need met either.

So I guess the answer is that I'm not getting my needs met. I probably never did, but I was willing to over-invest back then. I'm not willing to anymore. I've addressed some of my apparent co-dependency issues from the past.

Yet if you met him, you would think he was the most devoted H in the world, a H that I would be a fool to walk away from. I had a mental vision of him this weekend being one of those beggars standing at the street corner with a sign that reads, "Will work for food." It really pulls on your heartstrings, and many people just hand them money. But if you call their bluff and offer them work, then you get the real story. Unfortunately, no one ever calls his bluff. Or if they do, he has a ready excuse of why he didn't "show for work," and usually it's another fabricated story that also pulls at your heartstrings. No "work" is ever actually done. I'm just not falling for it anymore.

I don't think M should be tit-for-tat. It should a voluntary desire for each party to contribute to the happiness of the other. But I believe with H, that's what is required. I see people that would be much better suited to be his W. Heck, even the sweet widow across the street would be a great match for him. They're almost the same age, she has kids so H could experience the "step-parent" role equally, she likes sports, she seems to be willing to get walked over by family "for the sake of family," she doesn't criticize anyone "to their face," only behind their backs, etc. She even loves my S12. Honestly, if H told me he was having an affair with her, I would give both of them my blessing and offer to pay for the rehearsal dinner!

What does it say about my M when that's the sort of thought process going through my head??

[Crazyville]

Just journalling....

Another convo with H this weekend:

H: John (counselor) said I that I have grounds for divorce because of abandonment.
C: So divorce me. I’m not going to put up a fight.
H: I don’t want to divorce you. I want to mend our M.
C: Then why are you talking with John about options for D?
H: I wasn’t. I was asking him for suggestions on how to improve things between us.
C: So, you’re telling me that in response to you telling him you wanted to “improve your M,” he advised you that you have grounds for divorce? People don’t offer something like that unless the conversation has led them to believe that’s what you’re looking for. This is the same thing you did with your siblings. You claimed you were asking them for things you could do to improve things, and they respond by annihilating my character and suggesting that you give me a D, to which you replied, “Thx! Day by day.” I don’t believe you’re looking for help. I believe you’re looking for validation.
H: That’s not true. I’m trying to improve things.
C: Then did John suggest anything that you could do to improve things?
H: Well, he said he can’t believe that we’re still dealing with issues from 18 years ago. (This is related to H’s claim that I’m always bringing up the past. So, not H's issue, or something he can do something about, but a validation from John that I'm the problem.)
C: What issues are we still dealing with from 18 years ago?
H: The Supra, for example.
C: We’re not still dealing with the Supra. We’re still dealing with lying, which is the problem we had with the Supra. But the lying is a current issue. I will agree, though, I can’t believe we’re still dealing with it either. What else?
H: Issues regarding my extended family. (Again, issues H has with me.)
C: What issues?
H: That you’re still uncomfortable with them.
C: Yes, I’m still uncomfortable with them because I know how they feel about me. I’ve dealt with it. I‘ve gone to DSM and been personable, and I’m not hindering your relationship with them in any way. How is that an issue for you?
H: Well they can’t come down here.
C: Of course they can.
H: But you said you wouldn’t be here if they do.
C: Yes, and I explained why. But you are more than welcome to entertain them. In the meantime, I’ve been accommodating your wish to go with you to DSM to visit them.
H: Well what am I going to say when they want to come down?
C: What makes you think they even want to?
H: Brother said he and SIL were going to pick a weekend this fall and come down and visit.
C: Well, “this fall” is almost over. When did he say that, in August when you were visiting your dad?
H: No, it was before then.
C: So, May?
H: Somewhere around then.
C: So why didn’t they come? They weren’t told not to. I would think 4-5 months is long enough to look at their calendar. It’s the same thing they’ve been doing for 18 years: making promises to visit us and never doing it.
H: Well it’s just easier for everyone to meet in DSM.
C: Then that’s your answer when they ask. “It’s just easier for everyone to meet in DSM.”
H: But I’m trying to remedy that problem.
C: What problem?
H: The problem of them not coming down here.
C: Who is that a problem for?
H: Well it used to be a huge problem for you.
C: OMG! That was 10 years ago!!! For the last 5 years, since the fallout, I have not wanted them to come down here. It is absolutely not a problem for me.
H: Well, I think you need to forgive them.
C: I have forgiven them. I’ve reengaged. But I know how they feel about me and I’m not going to set myself up for more crap.
(The conversation proceeds with a condemnation of CV for not being forgiving and not acting like a Christian, etc.)

[Soul.Searching]

[quote]

Thankfully, this post has redirected my thoughts to something else. If you're in Australia, then that means you're going into your summer, correct? So you have Christmas in the summer? Are the kids off school? It's funny, I never thought of that...

Yes! It's getting hotter here! The kids are still in school for maybe another 5 weeks? Then they get six weeks off!! Yes we generally have a hot Christmas. That's one thing that [censored] with H he took off with our boat, right when the weather warmed up.

It's early morning and hot already!

[lostsoul13]

Crazyville from your side, your H doesn't sound like a man, who is able to change and yes there are plenty of people like this. Not much to say, if our H has the tools but cannot, will not change.

Sorry to hear you have a stubborn H.

I think what you are doing for your S12 is admirable. If anything, you may not be happy but when day when your S12 grows up to be a fine man, you should be proud.

Maybe the best gift ever your giving your kids.

For my situation my W wants to leave me for a guy she knew 16 years ago. Who we to Jail for armed robbery....there is no logic when they knew each other for 4 months at the age of 16. The guy has no steady job, never been married and can't hold a long term relationship.

I am doing this because I know I can make this marriage great because I still believe in my W and kids.

But I also know, if I ever get married again my next wife will be blessed with the knowledge I gained, every day she will never feel lonely again.

But for now, I must bear the pain that, I did neglect her, not because I was terrible but because my priority was working hard so the kids and her will never worry about money. Like I said, she could of retired at age of 34 and chased her dreams of being a pastry chef.

Life

[Soul.Searching]

It sounds like he is the one bringing up the past! Sounds like he just wanted to start a fight. How long have you been DBing? Like as in not engaging in arguments etc? Maybe he was trying to push your buttons? Test his limits?

[Crazyville]

Soul, I'm not really DB'g in the true sense. I know a TON of things that I could do to make H happy. The problem is that he seems incapable or indifferent to doing what makes me happy. Instead, I'm trying to build healthy boundaries, to create an environment where we're operating on a level playing field. H seems to be fighting really hard to keep things as they were.

Sadly, in order to avoid arguments with him, I'm barely even speaking with him. For example, he was considering selling his car and asked what I thought. I told him I didn't think he should sell it. I wouldn't go into my reasons, just that. Well he sold it anyway on Sunday. Last night, he wanted to talk to me about another car he found and was considering buying. I wouldn't even give him my opinion. I feel like he's going to do what he wants to do anyway, so why bother to offer my opinion? I feel like he only asks my opinion so he has something to work against.

[Accuray]

Hi CV,

I'm glad you're still here, just noticed that you were in this forum -- I saw that you were looking for an update. Here you go, whether you want it or not:

It's now been 15 months since W said she wanted to reconcile. We had a little "honeymoon" period initially where we were working together to make things better. Over time, W slowly distanced little by little until things got really bad for me. I was looking for places to live so I could move out, MC was advising me to leave, even my DB coach advised moving out. I decided that instead of being a WAS myself and waiting to drop a bomb until I had everything arranged, I was going to let W know where I was, and we had a bit of a blow up at the end of June this year. That resulted in W distancing even more and giving me another ILYBINILWY speech, but at that point I was pretty well detached and it just didn't have the impact it did the first time around.

The kids still didn't know anything, so I decided to give it one more shot for their benefit. I read "His Needs, Her Needs". One important bit of info I got from that book was that The Five Love Languages is too generic, and you have to dig deeper into exactly what your spouse needs and how they need it. More importantly, however, it talked about "love busters", which are things about you that bother your spouse and effectively block your efforts at filling their love tank. I pursued that and figured out I had a couple "love busters" and 180'd them.

At the same time, I got some excellent advice that just my efforts at "working on the marriage" were making things worse by communicating that I wasn't satisfied with things as they were, so I was advised to entirely back off, or "give space".

For the last three months, things have been improving appreciably. I have stopped pursuing and have learned how to give just enough to keep things from getting awkward, while not overstepping. This has allowed W to step up a bit and things have been slowly moving in the right direction.

My MC advised me to keep a tally each day -- if you felt like you did today for every day for the rest of your life, would that be okay with you? Mark a + for yes, or a - for no. After some period of time, look back and count up your tallies, this will inform you if your current situation is one you can live with or not and you won't kid yourself. Fortunately, I've had many more plusses than minuses for the last few months, so we're moving in the right direction.

It's been a hell of a journey, and I wouldn't wish it on anybody, but I'm not getting divorced, my kids are happy, I'm able to sleep at night, and my W is moving back towards me.

Not bad right?

Accuray

[Soul.Searching]

It sounds like you have totally give up on any form of a relationship. If that's the case and all you are doing is trying to make the next so many years more comfortable, then I don't know what else you can do.
I really think you should try take S12 on a holiday, just the two of you. Even if it's just for a weekend. Is there family/ friends you can go visit, so it won't cost much. Just petrol really because food you would have to buy either way.

You don't derserve to have to live like this.

[Crazyville]

Accuray! It is so good to hear that your sitch has turned around! Who would have guessed your W would have responded the way she did? Regardless, I couldn't be happier for you! Thanks for dropping in with an update. I was wondering. It's unfortunate, no two sitches are alike and so people can't replicate what worked for you. Well, I hope things continue on their current course and the two of you have a long and happy life together! ((()))

Soul, thanks for brainstorming for me. I appreciate the effort. And as for the holiday, I just got word yesterday that our annual "girls weekend away to the lake to drink and shop" is scheduled for next weekend, so I am outta here! Perfect timing, I think. Of course, EVERY weekend is perfect timing for that. LOL! I'll miss S12, but he'll be fine with dad.

I had a 5-minute follow-up with H in regard to the second convo I posted. I said I noted that his responses to my question of what people were advising him that he could do to improve the M were things that he thought I should do, and I wanted to address that question again. He was quiet for a minute or two, then replied that no, there is nothing that anyone was suggesting to him for him to do.

So it's official. I am M'd to the perfect H. There is, apparently, absolutely nothing that my H could do better or different than he does today that would improve our M.

It's also official, then, that I don't want to be M'd to him or to anyone else, since he is the standard to which all other H's should aspire to be.