Back to Square One?

[labug]

This brings us back to what you highlighted, FY, in our sitch. You're right: I somehow need to accept that H is someone who muddles through when it comes to details and practicalities. Maybe I'm better off erring on the side of letting him miss appointments and annoy people. Typically, I err on the side of reminding him and helping him (and annoying him quite a few times in the process).

You act like a mother, not a wife.

Believe me, I know, I did the same and even tho I kept things running like a smoothly oiled machine, no one thanked me for it so then I got angry and resentful. And then my H decided he had had enough of my "help" with a side of anger and resentment, in his life.

And here I thought I was just being helpful.

2 things wrong with my thinking:
1) No one asked for help
I just assumed since they were weren't doing things the way I thought best, that they needed help.
2) I wasn't allowing others to live their lives, deal with their own problems.
I was always fixing things for them.
Detaching means letting others live their lives.

How to know when someone needs your help?

They will ask for it.

google livestrong overcoming the need to fix

[tori2012]

Wendylon, I agree with MKB and labug. I think a lot of us women on this board are fixers--maybe most women are? We have the maternal instinct, and if he marry a man who has ADD tendencies, or who's plain disorganized, we set ourselves for a troubled relationship. Let him make mistakes. Remember that change takes time. When your H sees the consequences of his actions, he'll change, too.

[afa75]

I read your latest post Wendy last night while having a midnight snack and was too tired / sleepy to post.

I can only agree with the above posters.

[mamabird]

He HATES feeling that I'm critical of him. He goes on about how in my eyes he can never get it right, how he's never felt loved by me, that I just don't get him and never will, that he's given up on me ever understanding him, etc... All this to say that I'm wondering if any of you can see how I can 180 some of these complaints.

I've heard this too in my sitch. Our H's seem to be a lot alike - very SMART but very irresponsible in a lot of ways. It's easy to fall into that mother trap. My own H has a disaster for a mother, and I wish I'd realized the potential impact of that before we got married. I would love to just let him fail at things but unfortunately they have real impacts - not paying the bills, not filing business expenses for example... these are things that have to be handled properly! Now we are in mountains of debt because of his irresponsibility around our financial situation. In these cases you HAVE to step in.

One time when my H wanted to cut out on a responsibility, S8 and I called him out on it and he actually got on his bike and rode home (we were at the park) - like a little kid! You said in one post that you would treat him like more of a man if he acted like more of one, and I know I feel the same.

Regarding the rest of it though - how do you do the 180s - well, I'm giving my H his nightly back rubs (which you could do while you watch the Good Wife I guess). I am hoping that makes him feel more loved, and I think it's gone a long way to improve things in our sitch. I come from a long line of criticizers so I have had to force myself to be more loving and accepting and less negative. It is hard to do that, especially when they do really super dumb, annoying stuff. And in those cases, you have to have your boundaries and be calm. For instance, I made dinner on Friday and then my H went out for the evening, and left all the dishes on the table. I was irate but I just called him on the phone, calmly, and said, "That's not cool." No yelling, no arguing.

One of the toughest things I'm dealing with now is finding the balance between making H feel loved and giving him his space. And making him feel loved but detaching enough to bring him hither (so far nothing is working on that front). It seems like the more I do for him the less grateful he is, and the harder I have to work to stay on balance.

Continue to be kind to him because I think what you're doing is working well enough for the time being.

[Wendylon]

How lovely for me to come to my thread and get all this wonderful advice/help/feedback. Thank you very much, MKB, Labug, Tori, Andrew and Regretful

It makes it easy too that you're all advising the same thing: that I try to be more of a wife and less of a mother. I like what you said, Labug, about how I'll know he wants help when he asks. I will look up the Livestrong link.

It is so much easier to be a bit more detached when he's away. Also, since a lot of our communication is by email, I have a bit more time to think about how to be tactful and not intrusive or patronising before I respond. There are a couple of instances where I'm worried he's got the wrong end of the stick in terms of what's required of him logistically in terms of picking up kids etc.. but instead of questioning him/setting him straight, I'll just make sure that I announce things clearly closer to the time. He gets back tomorrow night.

Someone called today to speak to him and wouldn't tell me what it was about. My worst nightmare is that he owes money. He is very bad with finances. We put 50/50 into the joint account and I look after bills etc. I would have trouble running the family without his share. Realistically though, he will at some point not have his share. He earns some of it and the rest comes from loans off the house he inherited from his mother. I reckon that he'll run out in about 5 years at this point. He's someone who comes up with expensive ideas and I'm always the one who brings him down to reality. For example, he wants to take S13 to a special needs ski resort in Austria. As far as I'm concerned, S13 is just as happy staying here. Then again, H is keen on adventure and I'm not. If I'm going to be realistic, I need to accept that we are living above our means and that things will change when H runs through his mother's house.

Another issue is that I'm really not keen on socialising. I love seeing people I like one on one, which I do a lot. I end up spending a lot of my time with people every day anyway and have virtually zero interest in going to parties. I don't drink and I don't enjoy them. I love time to myself. H is more of a party animal--in large part, I think, because he has a few drinks and he just is more social.

On 24 November, we're invited to a party given by university friends of H's. We have to wear moustaches in support of prostate cancer. It's so not my thing. I'm tempted to suggest he go alone but then I sometimes feel left out because he does things with that group of friends and I'm not included. They go to the theatre or whatever and I'm just as happy not going but can nonetheless get a bit insecure that H is happier to be with them than he is to be at home with me.

We've just been invited to a dinner on 9 Nov. I know we're also going to one on 1 Dec. I don't get why people like hosting these things. We then need to reciprocate or end up feeling guilty if we don't. Not sure why I'm ranting about this. It just feels as if people share an interest that I don't share and I don't quite know how to negotiate it. I remember when S17 was young, he hated birthday parties. I used to respond to invitations by saying, "I'm really sorry but S17 doesn't do birthday parties". I wish I could somehow say the same of myself without feeling as if I'm being weird and rejecting of others!

The last time we went out with friends of H's, I thought it was such a waste of my time. The husband kept saying to me, "Now what is it really like for your S13 to be autistic?" and would then hold forth on what he imagined it to be like. It just irritated me.

Generally, I do have a problem with people wanting to spend more time with me than I want to spend with them. The only people that it isn't true of are H and S17 (and occasionally D15)! I love seeing my mother one on one. She often cuts the visits quite short so I guess I would lump her in with people I would like to spend more time with.

Not sure how much this all has to do with Dbing!

Anyway, thank you very much for the support and the opportunity to journal.

[Tumbling]

Hello Wendylon
Yet another 180 to follow your lead on!
I naturally "mother" H too.
I think it's woman thing.
Between us girls it's perfectly acceptable to remind/suggest/offer to help. It demonstrates our caring for each other. But I've noticed it definitely emasculates H.

I don't remember where I read it but between men
- you only offer advice if you are asked.
(it wasn't venus mars but i bet it's in there)

It's super hard.

I have the same issues of telling H time and again about something and he only actually takes notice the day before or on the day. My IC said that I naturally work on 14day cycles - I plan my time around 14 days including nights in - H is 48hrs - which is why he can't agree to do something as he doesn't really know how he is going to feel. so that's why I retain and gather info for the next 14 days whilst he doesn't register anything I say until the day before.

I tried a calendar at the top of the stairs. It didn't have the slightest impact. What does is a shared electronic diary via gmail. We both write in it. He's gadget man so I worked out how to "turn him on" to planning.

Socialising is hard for us too
I'm like your H. I get energised by hanging out with people. My H is more of an introvert. He prefers 1-2-1 and takes a long time to trust people. He gets re-energised by being alone - something to do with over stimulation and cortisol - people who are less extroverted can be over stimulated by too much interaction so need downtime to re-engage.

I had started to make sure that there was someone for H to 1-2-1 w while I butterflied the room. Sometimes we went in separate cars too so that he could leave when he needed to. I didnt care about appearances, I was doing what worked. We talked about our differences so that we felt safe doing what we did at social events. I guess you call it loving each other inspite of differences

Just my thoughts

[Wendylon]

Thank you very much, Tumbling, for your thoughts. I really like them.

Between us girls it's perfectly acceptable to remind/suggest/offer to help. It demonstrates our caring for each other. But I've noticed it definitely emasculates H.

My H has said that I'm the greatest emasculator there is

My IC said that I naturally work on 14day cycles - I plan my time around 14 days including nights in - H is 48hrs - which is why he can't agree to do something as he doesn't really know how he is going to feel.

That's a really helpful way of looking at the difference between us.

I tried a calendar at the top of the stairs. It didn't have the slightest impact. What does is a shared electronic diary via gmail. We both write in it. He's gadget man so I worked out how to "turn him on" to planning.

My H is a gadget man too. I should try to capitalise on that.

Sometimes we went in separate cars too so that he could leave when he needed to.

I like that idea.

Thank you for stopping by, Tumbling!

[Wendylon]

I'm getting a bit worked up because I've noticed a pattern of H not being forthcoming about the time his plane/train gets back. He's due home today and I can't seem to get an answer from him about what time to expect him. It has to do with picking D15 up from netball.

It's really annoying me. Woke up feeling anxious and dissatisfied.

[MKB23]

Go get her yourself or make other arrangements. That's what GAL means. Don't wait on him. Did you already communicate to him that her being picked up is an issue? Right now you cannot count on him. No animosity. Stop calling and just do what you need to do. Harping nagging all of that will not help. Also don't keep dinner for him. If he makes it on time cool if not, he can have leftovers or a sandwich. Not your problem. Sounds like you are anxious about him coming home. Try to find something to distract yourself.

[tori2012]

Wendylon, I think that your H is trying to establish that he is "on his own" by being vague. He wants to communicate that he doesn't have to tell you where he is or when he's coming at all, because he's not living with you anymore. He's showing you this through his behavior. My advice? I agree with MKB. Give him space.

I kindly disagree with Tumbling and her H's arrangement when they had parties. I also thought I was being accomodating by letting my H go to parties alone or driving in separate cars, bc I myself don't like late parties. I like parties if I can leave before midnight. My H wanted to stay till the closed the place. But our arrangement resulted in my H making single friends who didn't know me that well. It resulted in him feeling we were separate, that we didn't share the same experiences and social circles.

The key for you now is: space. And GALing too. I know it must be hard with the kids, though, but give it a try.