WAS vs. LBS

[lostsoul13]

Okay, here's one for the LBS'ers. Please tell me what you see is going on here, because this is the sort of thing that's happening constantly in my M that is causing me to leave.

C: BTW, if you’re going to help me out by taking S12 to school, then I need for him to be there on time. You were late this morning.
H: No we weren’t. I even asked S12.
C: Yes, you were. He’s late at 7:50 and you didn’t even leave the house until 7:50.
H: No, we weren’t. There were even other cars arriving the same time we were.
C: That doesn’t mean you weren’t late, that just means they were late, too. The student handbook says he’s supposed to be there by 7:50. After 7:55, he’s supposed to arrive with a written excuse. After 8:00, the guardian is supposed to walk into the school with him and the note.
H: Well I didn’t realize you read the student handbook.
C: Okay, but you do realize I’ve been managing getting him to school since he was in pre-kindergarten. Wouldn’t that at least give me some credibility that I might know what time he needs to be there, regardless of my source?
H: Well I take him sometimes, too, and he said he wasn’t late.
C: Well perhaps I’m wrong. (C goes to her laptop and opens the online student handbook and reads the section about school start.) Okay, I’m wrong. It changed from last year. It says their preferred drop-off time is 7:45. (C reads the paragraph outloud.)
H: (H yells to the kitchen to where S12 is making a drink.) S12, were you late for school this morning?
C: OMG!!!! Why are you asking him? I just read it straight from the student handbook published by the school. I understand that you give me zero credibility, but how can you discount the published school policy? Do you think I was lying as I read it to you? Do you need to go online and read it yourself??
Nevermind. Just forget it. I don’t need your help getting S12 to school. I want him to be there in accordance with school policy, so I will get him there myself. You are not doing me any favors when this is what I have to deal with.

I get constant bickering, zero credibility. It seems like if I say the sky is blue, I'll get an argument. I've taken a position of sharing absolutely nothing with him so he has nothing to contradict.

Your thoughts?

Fundamental your communication is broken. You kept insisting he was wrong multiple times. Make it clear one time and then remember if he helped drop your S12 before and if he did was he late back then?

Are you pointing out his negatives on this subject because he is constantly late or was late 2 out of 10 times?

Finally did you try praising him when he helped you drop off S12.

I think it would of been far more effective to say "thank you H, give a kiss on the cheek for helping to drop S12 but can you make sure he is on time (with a smile on your face)"

It might speak one of his love languages and then throw in guilt to win the argument.

On his end, he needs to better communicate too but as a guy, I can tell you he was probably thinking I did drop him off but you kept baiting him for argument, so he was giving you sarcastic answers. He felt unappreciated because you quickly pointed the flaws out, especially if he has dropped you S12 in the past with no issues.

[Soul.Searching]

I do see that some of your comments could have possibly made he feel "inferior" however he does seem to be arguing like a child. Sounds a lot like my H. Doesnt want to accept responsibility for anything.

[Crazyville]

Thanks G and SS,

G, I hear what you're saying, and you're not being too blunt with me at all. At this point, I don't think that's possible. If I had left off "you were late," it would have gone something like this:

C: BTW, if you’re going to help me out by taking S12 to school, then I need for him to be there on time. He needs to be there by 7:50.
H: I know, I had him there on time.
C: No, you didn't.
H: Yes, I did. I even asked S12.
... and it would have proceeded from there pretty much the same.

Soul, I hear what you're saying. It's not my intention to make him feel inferior. How do I approach this? First, it's not like he was charged with murder and he needs to defend himself against life in prison, so I don't get the giant wall of defense. Second, I wasn't screaming at him and yelling and ranting when I presented this. Two sentences!

So I would try this:
C: BTW, if you’re going to help me out by taking S12 to school, then I need for him to be there on time. He needs to be there by 7:50.
H: We were on time. I even asked S12.
C: If you're going go take him, then I need you to leave the house by 7:35 so that I'm comfortable he's getting there on time.

At this point, one of two things would likely happen. He would either agree to do so but never actually change his behavior, then we would be arguing whether he left at 7:35, or whether he ever agreed to it in the first place. Or he would accuse me of being controlling because he says he doesn't like to be told what to do.

So I keep looking at this exchange trying to dissect where it goes wrong, as this is very typical. The fact is, even if presented without criticism, I get an immediate argument. Therefore, I just shut down the communication. In a case like this, I would notice that H can't get him to school on time and I would just take him myself from then on, no comment to H at all. H would offer to take him, I would decline with a pleasant "No, thank you."

I've done this with pretty much everything in life. I've withdrawn. There is no inter-dependence. I look at everything as being something I have to handle as a single parent/person. Meanwhile, he keeps wanting things from me. I've read on Harley's site that this is a recipe for divorce, because it builds resentments and barriers. I see that. I'm there.

But what is my alternative?

[Soul.Searching]

C: BTW, if you’re going to help me out by taking S12 to school, then I need for him to be there on time. He needs to be there by 7:50.

He could be taking it as you saying "I know you tried to help me out but you failed."

Maybe instead you could say,
C: I really appreciate you taking S12 to school. I'm not sure if your aware but S12 needs to be at school by 7:50 otherwise he needs a late note.

You know your H better than anybody here, but maybe try wording it so that it still sounds as though you actually do appreciate him taking your S to school.
To me the way you worded sounds like you really didn't appreciate it at all, that he just screwed up.

He does sound very immature though. I'm so sorry CV. I hope you can figure this one out.

Also this is a little off topic but I started reading a little of your threads. I notice your last one and how you stopped posting. I hope that wasent because of the negative posts that someone was posting! I really like reading your posts. It helps see some things from a different POV. No one here should be judging anyone!



Lisa,..,

[Crazyville]

Thanks for your insight, Soul. Your suggestion should work, but I believe H's response would be:
C: I really appreciate you taking S12 to school. I'm not sure if you're aware but S12 needs to be at school by 7:50 otherwise he needs a late note.
H: Okay, but S12 said he wasn't late.

I think perhaps you pinned the bottom line problem for me, though. I DON'T appreciate it. I enjoy taking my S to school. I could easily set him up for a carpool, but I don't because he's my one and only, and we have some really fun times. Silly, 12yo boy things, but I love it. I only agreed to let H take him because of some posts that said I needed to give H the opportunity to "do things for me." If H offered to take S12, I needed to let him so that he could feel "needed." That, and I have so much fun with S12 that I didn't feel right not letting H have the opportunity.

So now, I'm already sacrificing something I love to do, and having to bite my tongue when he's late (or forgets his lunch or something else), and phrase it in such a way that he isn't put on the defensive. I really would rather just take S12 myself. Besides, this course is just letting H think he's doing something wonderful for me, so then he's going to ask me to do something for him (like sex.) I have no doubt this would work for him. Meanwhile, I'm actually not getting any of my needs met, so from my perspective, I would be better off without him.

I really wish we could separate for a bit. I suggested to him recently that he should pursue his dream of purchasing a foreclosure house for renovation. A few years back, he was really hot on it, and tried to get me to go in with him. The problem is that the burden of all the tasks he couldn't figure out or didn't want to do would have fallen on me, so I refused. But if he was living there, it would be all his. Plus, our relationship would be totally measurable. If he did something at "his" house, he couldn't possibly say he was doing it "for me." I feel like we need this in order to clean the slate for both of us and start out with an accurate perspective of our relationship. Who knows, maybe I'm the one that would be enlightened.

But he refused. He likes the idea of doing it with me so I can carry half the burden. But it's not my dream. He's not interested if he has to assume full responsibility for it. So without that, I don't have a better idea and I'm back to counting down the years until S12 is out.

As for my prior threads, I just felt it had taken a course that wasn't productive anymore. The fact is that if it wasn't for S12, I would be gone. But I'm stuck here for now and trying to make the best of it. That doesn't mean I'm going to act like a LBS and do a bunch of 180's. But I am willing to do some things to make the next six years less volatile. Some things, not just anything. So by posting in WAS, no one should get the wrong impression.

I really appreciate you dropping in! I, too, get much from the perspective of "the other side."

[Soul.Searching]

What is he doing that you would like him not to be doing?
What is he not doing that you would like him to do?

I can see a little of both sides here. Honestly not much has changed for me since H left in the way of looking after the kids, house or yard. His been gone for over a month and a half now and I can think of two things. One was a big branch broke off a tree. He would have sawed it up and gave it away for firewood. I broke off all the branches and threw them in the grass bin. I still have the main branch to deal with. The second is the kitchen tap is leaking. H would have replaced it but now I'm going to have to give it a go.
Oh actually one more thing S8 bike wheel. H would have fixed that.
Really that's the only things that I can think of that H would have done to help me out. Pretty darn sad really.
So I really do get where your coming from. I loved my H so much though and we really did enjoy spending time together, or so it seemed.


On the other hand it seemed my H was always setting me up to fail. Nothing I did was good enough! It got to the point where it would take me hours to decide what to do and my choice would still be wrong. Even down to cooking dinner, I could cook for hours but then get abused because of the choice of spice I used or because I should have or shouldn't have added a certain ingredient.
I remember him going off his head one night because the spice I used should have been used on beef instead of chicken, even though the spice was actually designed for chicken.
It hurts when nothing you do is good enough or never appreciated. It killed my self confidence and self esteem, I actually didn't realize how much so, until after he left.

[Soul.Searching]

Wow, this thread has made me realize just how toxic our relationship was! I think I got the worst of both worlds! I'm not saying I was perfect or didn't make mistakes. I just can't believe how much those rose colored glasses hid from me.

[Crazyville]

What is he doing that you would like him not to be doing?
What is he not doing that you would like him to do?

I have quite a long list of things I would like him not to be doing (lying, blaming me for things I didn't do, devaluing me, judging and condemning me, etc.) I'm sorry to say I really can't think of anything I would like him to do. I think that's because he has promised and broken so many commitments to me that I simply don't trust him with anything. There's no point wanting him to do something when I can mostly guarantee that he won't do it.

My H would probably say the same thing, that nothing he does is good enough, but it's nothing like what you had to deal with. And frankly, what things he does, he does like a 12yo. My standards with him are sooo low, that anything less would be non-existent. I've been asking him to not leave his shoes on the floor of the laundry room for 18 years, regularly. Now he does it "most" of the time (about the same amount as S12.) Which means I only have to step around them or trip over them "some" of the time, and therefore it's not a problem, right?

It sounds like your situation was tough! I would wonder what you miss but it sounds like you had fun together. Maybe if we had that, the rest of my sitch would have been easier to bear. I don't know, though. I just don't know how to build a marriage without honesty and trust, or having to play second fiddle to everyone else on the planet. I'd rather not be M'd. I'm glad your rose-colored glasses have come off. It doesn't sound like the relationship was very healthy for you. Perhaps he's done you a favor.

[Soul.Searching]

I could have wrote that list of the thing you don't want him to do. The lying really got to me and mostly it was the pettiest things.
Despite all of the crap, we generally did have a fun relationship. We both love a lot of the same things. We used to go fishing both as a family and occasionally just the two of us. We used to go boating and camping. We used to go on holidays at least once a year, sometimes two and three times a year. We used to go visit friends or go to bunnings and renovate. We laughed a lot. We both have the same sense of humor.
Especially this time of year, we would do a lot. Go to markets, drive around. Even washing the cars as a family. H is really handy too. He Ripped out the bathroom and done everything himself but then we ran out of money, it's still not finished but the main room that is done looks awesome. That man can do a hell of a lot handyman/ renovating wise and he has style.

He also can be very sweet when he wants to be.

These are some of the reasons why I love him so much, why I put up with so much crap. He does so much for other people. He would give away his last $10 if somebody needed it, he would drop everything to help a friend, even a stranger. Just a pity that me and the kids weren't as important as everybody else.

With out these things I think I would have been the WAW years ago. I actually really did concider it a few times. Not for the past few years though.

Everyone that really knows my H says how much of a Jekyll and hide he is.

I don't know CV sounds like a touch sitch. It was those fun times (Even just being at home, we had fun.) that gave me the will to want to stay in our relationship.
He wasent all bad, all the time.

The shoe thing is really annoying! My H's place to leave his was the lounge room floor! Seriously, who does that?

I think you need a holiday. Is there anything you used to love doing together?
You need someway to connect again. Maybe you should have a break from each other somehow. Could just you and S go on a holiday? That way your S doesn't even have to know what happening.

[Crazyville]

These are some of the reasons why I love him so much, why I put up with so much crap. He does so much for other people. He would give away his last $10 if somebody needed it, he would drop everything to help a friend, even a stranger. Just a pity that me and the kids weren't as important as everybody else.

Wow, I could have written this, with one slight exception: he would give away MY last $10 if someone needed it.

When we first got M'd, we used to go boating and camping together all the time because he had 4 kids and that was something he would do with them. It was fun, but one heck of a lot of work. I would spend two or three whole days with him camping, but then I couldn't get him to sit and do a jigsaw puzzle with me for 5 minutes. To me, it's not nearly as important what you're doing as who you're doing it with. Well his behavior knocked off my rose-colored glasses pretty early on and I stopped enjoying him, so I gradually stopped doing his things with him. And since he never had any interest in doing my things, we just stopped doing things together. I don't even know what interests we share besides S12.

The "holiday" thing you refer to must be an Aussie thing. Or at least I've heard of it more in the European countries. We don't get that much time off work. And S12 doesn't get that off school (well, in the summer he does.) I like the idea but money is a little tight right now, so there's not going to be anything big. S12 and I are going to the movies on Thursday since he has off school. It's hard to even want to do anything with H.

Thankfully, this post has redirected my thoughts to something else. If you're in Australia, then that means you're going into your summer, correct? So you have Christmas in the summer? Are the kids off school? It's funny, I never thought of that...