I also saw something which could be taken as a "hint" on fb. I ignored it. I figured if there really was a hidden meaning it was hidden for a reason. If she wants to say something no one is denying her.
Together for 8,5 years. S2 Interest in OM. She left 29.09.12 b/c we couldn't work things out. No signs of OM, not digging. Living in seperate homes, sharing custody.
Yup, there's NO reason to ask that question Arsene... If she wants to bring it up, she needs to just bring it up directly to you... By responding, you're encouraging this roundabout communication style that is clearly NOT going to work.
Chances are, her post created an emotion for Arsene. It’s up to US to determine how we handle our emotions. We can respond, probe, ask etc…I don’t think we get the opportunity to grow for OURSELVES by going down that path. The point I am trying to make is we do this work for OURSELVES. There comes a point when the focus is taken off of W. The real road to growth will start to happen when this shift in thinking takes place.
It sounds cliché but a lot of us come to this board very beat down and it critical to learn the importance of taking care of ourselves FIRST, it's a chance to save ourselves. I know you said it sounds like “a game” but hopefully you can see there's so much more behind what Arsese is talking about. It's not that simple bro, you don't just ask. It's not yes/no, it's not black/white. It's not that easy. If it was, then we probably wouldn't be here in the first place.
To sum it up, there's no guarantees in any of this but I can tell you this much. There's little chance towards reconciliation until the focus is taken off our W's. Make sense?
I'm curious. Exactly what is the fear in asking her to clarify this public comment? She put it out there and obviously knew he would see it, yet he needs to pretend it's not there? Seems like a game to me.
FY: He's not pretending it's not there... instead he's not encouraging this indirect style of communication... By responding, he's ensuring that it will happen again... that she can post cryptic notes for the world to see, and he'll try to decipher them, then ask for clarification. NOT a healthy way to communicate, especially when the topic is so heavy... If she wants him to know whatever it is she's posting on a social networking site, she should just put on her BGP and tell him directly...
You are welcome Vero. Actually, it wasn't one of my 180s but it is something that I should really work on.
Now I know that I've been up for the last few days and perhaps today is the withdrawal I'm suffering but I feel a bit blue. This compounded by the fact that W just sent me a text asking me if she could bring a friend over at my house to practice on Thursday morning. I know that in the past (it seems like years ago) I had told her she could even come around if she needed the space for her singing lessons since I have the piano at the house, but I'm not really feeling comfortable with having someone who might actually be a mate of OM practicing in my house. She didn't say who so I imagine it's someone I don't know and frankly I want nothing to do with her new "friends" at the moment. I'm thinking of simply replying with the following:
"Sorry W, but I don't feel comfortable with this so I'd rather not. Thanks for understanding."
What do you think?
Another thing is that on Thursday morning we were supposed to go to immigration again. I wonder if she's forgotten. It'll also be my 47th bday. Sigh!!!
The Immigration appointment is one thing,
but the fear that it "COULD be a person who KNOWS OM" and therefore is...what? Inherently bad?? So you'll withhold what you previously promised,
seems like 2 things to me.
1) A way of looking petty and unreliably moody, AND 2) a blown chance to look good in front of her new peeps.
If i were you, and ANY "mates of OM" were to come over to my home
I'd make the most of that opportunity to be the better choice.
I'd want w's new friends to stare and her, and implicity ask her, "Why leave THIS MAN??"
How can you "win" or make any points with her, by saying "no"?
Show her new peeps that you're a great father and radiate your inner positivity, upbeat attitude about life, intelligent interest in many things, (fake it if you have to) and friendly warm personality... In sum, be a man only a fool would leave.
Let her friends see that too.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
I then went through my correspondence and FB and a few minutes ago, obviously after her gig tonight, W changed her status to:
"Why do we have to lose before realizing the value/price of a being/existence/presence/someone?" (translated using online translators).
This is all very emotionally taxing. I wish that if W had something to say, she just came out and said it. I don't know if I'll be able to sleep tonight.
Instead of laying awake at night, why not just ask her what this means?
Hmmm... I wouldn't advise that.
How about you just let it go and stop trying to mind read. Maybe she's doing some true thinking about her life, maybe she isn't.
The answer will reveal itself in time.
I'm curious. Exactly what is the fear in asking her to clarify this public comment? She put it out there and obviously knew he would see it, yet he needs to pretend it's not there? Seems like a game to me.
What Starsky, AT, and Rough said above. It's only a game if he responds. It encourages to continue communicating in that manner. AND, I will add, we don't even know if it has anything to do with Arsene. If it doesn't, his asking ends up being pursuit and pressure on his W.
If something is bothering her about the situation with Arsene, and that is the reason for the post, it won't just go away. It will continue to fester and eventually she will communicate it to him in a healthy manner.
M 43 X 38 T 13 W moves out of home 11/2010 Roller coaster from hell 2/2011-5/2012 I request divorce 5/2012 W moves home 6/2012 Good time 7/2012 - 1/2015 I leave 3/2016 process of divorce
Thanks you all so much for your comments. As you've probably figured out by now, I will not reply to her FB status. In fact, I might not even have to as many of her friends (old friends who I think are rooting for me) who she hadn't talked to in a while because "they didn't understand her", have posted on her status, one being even so upfront as to ask "What are his intentions?". Who knows who and what this refers to? For now, I'll just let this situation ride and see where it leads,if anywhere. I have to admit, though, that it's hard not to have any expectations, but I'm trying to keep them out of the way.
Now, for a few answers.
Rough,
No, I don't have a set schedule, first of all because my intention on settling here was for my W to be close and have all the opportunities in the world to be with D8. I wanted this because the emotional attachment between a girl and her mom are huge and I wanted to minimize the impact this situation would have on D8 while at the same time allow her to get used to the idea of not living with her mom.
Another reason for not having a set schedule is that W's work being what it is, she can't commit to one day or another. It has to be when she can.
On the focus issue? I know what you are saying and you are right, these days, W has been on my mind more than is probably healthy for me. The thing is, right or wrong, in the last 3 1/2 weeks since our big R talk, things haven't really stopped moving and the level of our relationship seems to have intensified. I know I need to try and detach to protect myself but I don't think that pulling away now is the right thing to do. In attracting the squirrel, pulling away has the same result as going towards the squirrel. If you move,it gets scared and runs off. I think I need to stay put and see where this leads, and try to detach and have no expectations. I will keep doing what I do re 180s and GAL.
AT,
You are right. I need to ponder the issue of boundaries, and I have. RE; the message it sends to W and D8, it's a different one. D8 sees me as a loving father who is working on saving her family. A man who is always loving and caring towards her mother even though she knows I'm hurting. I think the message it's sending her is that conflicts can be resolved without arguing and that behaving in a loving manner is always a good thing.
WRT W, I hope she is seeing a strong loving man who stand by his conviction and is ready to fight for her no matter what. A man who has turned his life around so much in the last few months that she might now be having second thoughts. Remember, that 2 months ago, she would barely talk to me, and then it usually was out of anger.
On the issue of detachment, sigh... I know mate. This is the hardest thing for me to do and it's what I need to put huge efforts on. Yes, I'm hanging on to her every word and her every action and yes they do affect me, more than I care to admit. I think I was coming along well enough but since the R talk, it's been a tough one. I'm working on it mate.
As far as confidence and self-worth is concerned, I have more of that these days than I've had in a long time. I am so sure that what I'm doing is the right thing and I'm pretty confidant that I'm going at it the right way. But that is where I might get shot down. I'm sticking my head out too much. You are right sarge!! Point taken!
FY,
I know what you're saying mate. I don't like playing games either. I'd prefer open discussion about such things. It avoids a lot of guessing and the possibility of misunderstanding. If she sent me a direct text with the same message I would ask but on FB status, for all I know she's not referring to me and my asking might show a neediness I don't care to show.
Besides, in the past, when she directed such FB comments at me, they were in English. This one was in her language. I know she knows I could, and probably would figure it out but as I said, it might not have been about me. I'm probably reading too much into it. Remember the song "You're so Vain"?
Denver,
As far as stopping the mind reading, tough one. But as you said, if she is indeed doing some thinking the answer will reveal itself when she is ready. Right now, she obviously isn't and pushing it would showing my impatience and might come out as me being needy.
Starsky,
Yup mate! I'm not playing this one.
TheUF,
Exactly. She's had many opportunities to do so in the last few weeks and she knows where I stand.
25,
I hadn't thought of it that way. I guess my male ego would be hurt if she came with some guy who could "have a look" at the guy whose W is now seeing (to keep it clean) their mate. Is it petty? Maybe but it's the way I feel right now. I would really feel like a doormat/push over. Sorry, I wish I could be more mature about this but I've let my pride take a huge drop over many things but this is not something I feel I have to do.
Besides, I never promised her that she could practice here with mates. I told her she could have her lessons here because the piano is here and she uses it for her singing lessons.
The city where we are has hundreds or rehearsing studios (literally) which go for as little as a few dollars for a few hours. There are at least three of these within walking distance from here and probably 4 or 5 in her neighbourhood. I don't think that coming here is necessary. IN fact, it's probably out of her way.
Nonetheless, I'll think about what you said. For now, I won't say a thing until it's brought up again. Rehearsals have a way of getting canceled at a moment's notice.
Thanks you all so much for your time.
Freshman Class of 2012
M-49 W-42 1D-10 T 10 YEARS M 9 YEARS EA/MLC 07/2010 Separation 28/05/2012 PA confirmed 31/07/12 W Asked for D 31/07/12 D on and off the table since then
I'm curious. Exactly what is the fear in asking her to clarify this public comment? She put it out there and obviously knew he would see it, yet he needs to pretend it's not there? Seems like a game to me.
FY: He's not pretending it's not there... instead he's not encouraging this indirect style of communication... By responding, he's ensuring that it will happen again... that she can post cryptic notes for the world to see, and he'll try to decipher them, then ask for clarification. NOT a healthy way to communicate, especially when the topic is so heavy... If she wants him to know whatever it is she's posting on a social networking site, she should just put on her BGP and tell him directly...
I was pretty sure my comment and follow up question would raise a ruckus, and I wasn't wrong! Thanks for your answers everyone, they make sense. I especially like the point of not setting up an unhealthy, round about communication channel. As always, best wishes Arsene.
M: A really long time. Crisis: 5 years. She's still worth it.
Life is never made unbearable by circumstances, but only by lack of meaning and purpose. -Viktor Frankl
You are right. I need to ponder the issue of boundaries, and I have. RE; the message it sends to W and D8, it's a different one. D8 sees me as a loving father who is working on saving her family. A man who is always loving and caring towards her mother even though she knows I'm hurting. I think the message it's sending her is that conflicts can be resolved without arguing and that behaving in a loving manner is always a good thing.
WRT W, I hope she is seeing a strong loving man who stand by his conviction and is ready to fight for her no matter what. A man who has turned his life around so much in the last few months that she might now be having second thoughts. Remember, that 2 months ago, she would barely talk to me, and then it usually was out of anger.
On the issue of detachment, sigh... I know mate. This is the hardest thing for me to do and it's what I need to put huge efforts on. Yes, I'm hanging on to her every word and her every action and yes they do affect me, more than I care to admit. I think I was coming along well enough but since the R talk, it's been a tough one. I'm working on it mate.
As far as confidence and self-worth is concerned, I have more of that these days than I've had in a long time. I am so sure that what I'm doing is the right thing and I'm pretty confidant that I'm going at it the right way. But that is where I might get shot down. I'm sticking my head out too much. You are right sarge!! Point taken!
While you're pondering boundaries, remember that they're FOR YOU, not for anything else... Meaning they're not meant to be punitive or to make a point. They're meant to protect you from the situations that send you into a tailspin. Simple boundaries like "Let's silence our phones when we're together" or "Please give me an hour's notice before you come over to see D8" are a good start...
As for the impression that you're giving to W and D8... well I absolutely hope you're right. I have no doubt that your D8 sees you as a loving man, father and husband and knows you're doing your best... BUT you have to remember something that we all forget as we grow up... children are FAR more intuitive than we give them credit for... she can probably sense your moods much better than you think. No matter how hard you try to mask the disapproval, disappointment, anger or whatever you're feeling toward W, it's almost impossible to hide it well enough that it's not at least showing up in your body language... something D8 is probably acutely tuned into, even if she doesn't know it.
The good news there is you can quickly change all that... by continuing to detach and setting at least minor boundaries, you're protecting yourself, your emotions and bringing more stability into your moods... D8 will pick up on that too!
And I definitely hope you're right about how your W sees you... just know that there are other possibilities there... like there could be a part of her that is wondering how you're so "cool" with the OM situation... how you're still so emotionally available to her although you both know there's someone else in the picture... However, I understand that your sitch is going through an interesting loop right now and you're not looking to rock the boat (to mix metaphors). But maybe it's something to consider to help the detachment and boundary setting.
And on detachment... I wish I could give you some magic advice on how to detach, but as you know, there isn't any. The whole GAL thing definitely helps... and in my case, it was just a combination of GAL, lots of introspection, boundary setting, and a deluge of great advice on these boards that's been helping me detach more and more every day.
And your self-confidence and self-worth... well I realize that sounded a bit harsher than I intended it to, but I wanted to make a point... Although you've certainly come a long way in those departments, I want you to guard yourself against allowing your situation to deteriorate that progress. Trust me, these R talks and their "aftermath" can do a number on ANYONE'S self-esteem.
Just keep on keeping your head down... We're certainly gonna need you to watch our six at some point in the future!
