On 10/10/10

[25yearsmlc]

Babbling....

Pretty emotional night tonight.

I realized something about myself. I'm either not as far along as I thought or I took a step back.

XW came today and picked up S19 to take him to lunch for his birthday. He turns 20 tomorrow. When they returned, S19 told me that "she talked about you a lot." He said she would just pop me into conversation. He said she asked how I was doing and if I was still seeing my lady friend. I am not by the way. He said that she talked about me just as much as OM and her wedding. He also said that she admitted to hardly ever talking about herself to other people. S19 said he got the feeling that it was because she was ashamed.

why do you still let your sons act as intermediaries for you? We've said many times it's NOT helping you but you let it happen b/c you want the connection or pretense of one. So be it. I do think it's unfair to your sons though.


She told him that she was going to send me a "happy birthday text" on Thursday, but decided against it because she didn't want to ruin my day. S19 told her that it could have had a double effect where it made my day worse but also made it better. She agreed. Why in the Hell would she want to say happy birthday to me? She didn't want to or do so last year or the year before.

B/c she probably didn't think you could have handled it last year. And she was right.

She also told him that she cares about me a lot. Well maybe, but I don't believe you do what she did to someone you care about.

First, it's NOT all black and white. She can care about you and NOT want to be married to you. We see that around here all the time.

We even see LBSers become WASs not b/c they are mad/punitive, but b/c they no longer see their spouse the same way. Sure they'll always care esp when it's a long marriage and there are children. That is a lot of memories together and kids you raised.

But she'd rather be married to OM. That hurts but it's not insane. She can still care about you and want a buddy friend father of her kids, but want to be married to OM.


But.....if she doesn't care, she shouldn't want to be my friend.

What? She just said she cares! She wants your sons to know she bears no ill will and isn't hating you. While I see YOUR confusion, I do not see hers.


See the confusion? I think I may be just as messed up as the MLCer.

The emotional part for me:

She told him again that she wants to be my friend. I don't get this. Why??????????

B/C it's much easier for HER! For her to have you as a "friend" is better than as an enemy. A friend who has no expectations and makes no demands.

She can stay closer to her sons & eventual grandchildren, she can show her sons how compassionate she is towards you in front of them, and not have to share them at holidays or split them with you. B/C hey, you're all friends...

Being friends with you is much more convenient (for sheer convenience it's easier on both of you but I know why you feel differently about it for emotional reasons) This desire to be friends is very common.



She has spent the last 2 years believing that I am the devil. I just don't understand how she would want to be a friend even with OM in the picture. Damn. If I "hurt her to the core", why would she want to be my friend?

B/C

B/C
1) it's easier for her and or;

2) she didn't mean it; and or;

3) she meant it then, but doesn't mean it now.

Tad, Don't make this more complicated than it is.

And by analogy - If my h had beaten me, I would not spend a whole lot of time wondering and asking WHY he beat me...& there wouldn't be endless questions "asked hundreds of times" for two years...

I'd just stay away from him, and not expose myself to being beaten again AND I'd not let my kids see me beaten ever again. And I'd move on with my life.

Do you see the relevance of that analogy?


I've asked these questions a hundred times and still don't understand.

Sooo, Tad,

how's that "asking these questions a hundred times" working for you?

Is it clearing things up? NO IT'S NOT...and

there are no "GOOD" answers to those questions. And you have heard that 100 times (and you still don't understand...)

She told him that it is normal for people in our situation to be friends. I'm sorry but I probably know about 20 divorced couples and only two of them are "friendly." Not "friends" but "friendly."

I know a lot of couples who are able to attend family events without any visible discomfort. They make the event about their children and not their pain or discomfort. They put their needs to the side to be there for the kids. (My inlaws were one example. NO ugly scenes took place and they all danced at our wedding).

Some might not call it "normal," but I think it's healthy for the kids to see us seeing our spouses with compassion, warts and all.

That is not to say you ought to suck up to her for it. Just that someday when this isn't consuming you, and it is, then maybe you'll see my point.

And yes I know a few who are actually friends. It takes time or happy remarriages that reveal in fact they were not so well suited originally.

OR it means that enough time and detachment has taken place.


Now the tough part:

I'm not sure that I can be her friend without it causing me to have some sort of hope. I just don't think it is possible.


Agreed it's not possible at this time so you tell her (do not make your sons tell her this) that. You say "No thanks. It's not possible for me to be 'friends' at this time. It might not ever be possible. Time will tell." The End. If you are clear and firm then she will understand (and respect you for it) and your sons can get that message too.


Plus, to me, being her friend tells her that what she did is ok.

that's a myth. It's a lie that many LBSers tell themselves so they can hold onto their pain and anger. NO ONE WHO KNOWS YOU, will think you're suddenly fine with OM.

The idea that an LBSer has to be angry and cold and judgemental to show that they have not forgiven, just shows that they have not forgiven!...

and they lessen the odds of reconciling with that behavior. Til now I didn't realize you have done zero forgiveness work.

You think she's supposed to "deserve" it before you can give it. But that's another falsehood.

She doesn't have to even know you forgive her. It's not something you tell her unless she asks, (which she won't anytime soon.)

Its about you letting the wound heal over. It's about your moving forward and GAL finally...

Forgiveness does NOT = condoning behavior.

It's a gift you give yourself and as I said, she isn't really a part of it. It's about not staring at the pain inflicted, but healing and living and letting go of the anger and

NOT asking the same questions hundreds of times...
it's about being free.


However, if I do decide to stand for my marriage and hope to reconcile, that isn't even possible without a friendship. I just don't know what to do.

I asked S19 if he wanted us to be friends and he said "I want you guys back together."

Oh... That is the saddest, most dysfunctional thing I've read on your thread.

It's NOT their jobs to get you back together.

My mc said "never discuss recon with your kids unless it's 'VERY LIKELY' or they'll never learn to adapt to what is, and they'll see heartbreak as somethig you never heal from...so don't involve them at all until you believe it's really going to happen."

And here you have them acting on your behalf to create or facilitate it....that is an unfair tragedy to me.

I hope you'll see the damage you are doing and enabling to be done to them. So that you'll stop it from happening.

You're showing them that you cannot be happy without your w, even thoug she left you for OM and is still with him and she has publicly announced her engagement to OM.

I don't get an 'shame" factored in those choices. I think she sounds resolute and wants to move forward and wants YOU to move forward.

Please don't think that holding onto the pain proves your love. It implies that those of us who moved on sooner didn't feel the same love and that's not so.

Plus off the top of my head, I believe all of the couples who reconciled here had LBSers who GAL and changed their lives and moved forward

and then their WASs noticed and wondered and they *(WAS) knew how to reach the LBSer.

Your xw knows how to reach you. God knows She does it all the time.


Well, that isn't happening unless I do decide to be her friend. I really don't know what I want. I think I could forgive her in time,

why do you believe that?

Who said fake friends lead to reconciing?
Be realistic. You've made zero progress towards forgiveness yet. Why or how do you believe you'd ever forgive her? I'm really curious b/c I think your concept of forgiveness needs some polish for sure.

but not sure if I can be a friend without having some sort of hope.

You already said you can't. So don't until you can, if that ever happens.

I just don't know.

I guess the question isn't "can I be her friend" but "do I want my marriage restored." I just don't understand the "friends" thing with the MLCer.

what is to understand? You can't see how much easier and convenient it is for HER to say you're friends now? I do. Way less drama.

I'm just at a loss right now. Not only do I have to decide if I want to be her friend, but I need to make a decision before she gets married next Summer. I feel like I am wearing a watch that says:

08 Months 00 Days 00 Hours 00 Minutes 00 Seconds

It is like a bomb just waiting for all of the columns to go to 00. It's ticking and there is no stopping it. Every day it gets closer and closer.

Why decide anything?
Since you are alright with waiting, why stop? I mean, so what if she marries OM? Why would you ever stop waiting for her? Why ever move forward or GAL?

For that matter, why should your sons ever move forward? Why teach them to adapt when they can cling to the "hope" that all will be well someday...maybe...

maybe OM will die or leave the country, or she'll suddenly wake up and say "WTH? Where's Tad?" and THEN she'll come home and THEN everyone can pretend it didn't happen...AND THEN you can "forgive in time"...??


Sorry for rambling. I'm just trying to be honest with my feelings. I like to write this stuff down. It helps in a way.

Can anyone explain the friends thing in any more detail?
Looks like I have much more thinking to do.

Tad

I feel like I have explained this.

My fear is that the only "details" you can understand are the ones you want to hear, so if I say "it means she wants to come home and she's testing you" THEN you'll hear that.

But if I say "she does want to be friends. You have a lot of memories together and you have 3 sons and things in common..." but "She wants OM as her h. Period", you'll say "oh SHE is so confusing" b/c you don't want to hear that.

I hope you'll release your sons from their "recon" duty, soon. And that you'll free yourself too.