Chasing Ghosts

[Denver_2010]

I can't push her to do it. She needs to be the one to end the A and ask to work on our marriage.

All of that is good. You need to be working on that stuff during this time apart from your W.

No. You cannot push her to end the A and work on the M. You can't make her do it. Nor can you expedite the process. That is why Patience and Time are two of the most important things here.

I also want to comment on the house situation.

What is your current living situation?

I do not think that it is good that you are paying for 1/2 of the mortgage under the circumstances. I suggest that you have a strong but polite conversation about this and give her two options. 1) She continues to live in the house but takes on the full mortgate, or 2) you move into the house, she moves out, and you pay the full mortgage.

She needs to have a chance to see the consequences of the choices that she is making. It is not to punish, not to teach, but to ALLOW her to see reality. The reality of what happens if the two of you D.

She will probably say no to both options, and that is fine for the time being. She will be put on notice that she can't continue to live on both sides of the fence. You can end the conversation by saying, 'well, you need to think about this, because we can't continue to do it this way for much longer." Or something like that.

[Denver_2010]

Last thought for anyone reading my journey,
Should I continue to detach or should I ask to sit down with her and go over my boundaries. I want to come home, and I want her to end the affair. I want to know that we are working on our marriage. The last time I told her I was done she responded with, I thought about everything and want to slowly work on the marriage. 2 nights later the OM was again in my bed. Please let me know what your thoughts are.

I still haven't finished reading your posts, so maybe you've come to this conclusion since posting this, but she is clearly NOT working on your M right now.

She is trying on another pair of shoes to see if they fit. Yet she is keeping the old pair (you) around just in case.

[Denver_2010]

Why can't I say no! W called and asked for a favor. She told me she had the chance to go to a professional sporting event Thursday and asked if I would take our S since it's her night to have him. She wants to exchange for another night. I know she will end up with the OM for this event and I should stop being their for her every time she needs something. I can't detach from favors and it's driving me nuts. Any tips, I tried saying I was busy but she wanted to know what I was doing and saw right through it. She knows I will do anything for her so back on the yo yo! Not happy with myself right now.

I understand this very well. I eventually learned that as long as OM was in her life, that I would not be in her life, let alone doing favors for her. I think that you need to get to that place.

Yes, you are enabling her affair by agreeing to do these favors. You are NOT allowing her to see REAL life. That she is a mother and that her responsibilities are going to be part of her life, EVEN IF she is with OM.

[Denver_2010]

Thank you Another for the book reference The 5 Love Languages. My W is going to the game Thurs and picked our S up last night. S did not want to go so that was tough. Rather than dwell on it I went and picked up LL book. I read the first two languages and slapped my forehead. I always thought actions spoke love. W responds to Quality Time and more specifically Quality Conversation. It's such a simple technique that I wish I paid more attention to years ago. Now how do I begin to speak with her through this love language when we physically see each other roughly 5 minutes a week?

Also look into 'emotional intimacy'. I don't have a good book reference, but I found some good stuff on the internet.

You don't do it right now. She is with another man. You are learning the tools so that WHEN the time comes, you can do this.

Right now, I think that you need to be in LRT.

[Denver_2010]

Journal Entry
October 26

I am going to take S to a Halloween store to pick out a costume then out to dinner. Tomorrow I am going to take him to a movie and an ice cream shop he likes. I figure we can have fun just the two of us, part of GALing right?

Absolutely!!! Do stuff for your S and for YOU right now. Do you have any interests that you have wanted to pursue but haven't? NOW is as good of a time as any BD.

You tried to avoid agreeing to a favor earlier by telling her that you were busy. You said that she asked about it and could see right through it.

First, she has no right to ask you, so give her vague responses. "I'm going out"... "where are you going?"... "I'm going out with friends W. Have a good night."

Second, GET BUSY. You need to GAL for sure! With son, but also with friends. Get out. Try to have some fun. I know that it is hard, but it WILL make you feel better. It will also make her wonder what it is that you are doing. And curiosity and mystery are good things right now.

Third, if you are not busy and don't want to do her the favor, just tell her. Don't do anything that you don't want to do. Don't do anything that you don't feel is right to do. YOu could have told her, "W, of course i love to see son and would do anything for him. But it is your time with him and that is important too. I'm going to spend sometime alone tomorrow night."

[Denver_2010]

I haven't received any feedback these past few days but have been reading a lot of posts. I have spent the better part of three days reading Denver's sitch and am pumped to fight for my marriage. I love his logic...
Be the better man - This is where you apply all of the DB techniques that you read about.

GAL - this is about enjoying your own life and helps with detachment, but it is also about becoming a better person. A person who is not unhappy, predictable, and bitter towards your situation. Those are all unattractive qualities and don't help "being the better man". GAL helps you have a PMA... helps you have some happiness in your life... makes you seem less predictable... makes you exciting... helps you smile a bit. These ARE attractive qualities, and do help you be "the better man".

180s - Being the better man includes figuring out where you have come up short in fulfilling the needs of your W and your M and fixing them... in yourself. What is it about OM that your W finds attractive? OM is definitely meeting some need that your W has. Whatever it is, you need to start working on it, doing it, doing a 180.

Be the man that your W fell in love with. That person IS the better man when compared to OM. Your W married you!!! NOT OM. Once upon a time, your W chose you as the better man... over all men!! Be that person again! I cannot stress this enough.

These are the weapons that we need to use for this WAR. And don't let anyone fool you, that's what this is if you choose to fight it. You don't fight it with ultimatums to your W, threats to D your W, personal threats to OM, or other tactics that have been referred to on this board as the "hard line approach".

As I said on another thread, I couldn't sum it up any better BD. Add to it time and patience.

Also, right now, because OM is in the picture, you need to be LRT. Being dark or dim is what you should be doing. Let her initiate contact. When she does, politely respond with short, to the point, answers. Don't open the door to further conversation by asking questions of her... let her do it. Let her wonder why you SEEM to be losing interest in what SHE is doing.

It is THAT, plus the curiosity that you create by GAL, that MAY get her to wonder IF she may be losing you. AND THAT is what you need to make progress. To get HER to start thinking.

Nothing will be saved while OM is in the picture. OM will be in the picture until W starts to do some serious thinking about whether or not she really wants to lose you.

Right now, you be the better man by:

1) being a good dad,
2) giving her space and time
3) loving her from afar
4) staying out of the mud (no anger or pressure)

I will try to keep up BD. Good luck man.

Denver

[DaddyLongShanks]

Why can't I say no! W called and asked for a favor. She told me she had the chance to go to a professional sporting event Thursday and asked if I would take our S since it's her night to have him. She wants to exchange for another night. I know she will end up with the OM for this event and I should stop being their for her every time she needs something. I can't detach from favors and it's driving me nuts. Any tips, I tried saying I was busy but she wanted to know what I was doing and saw right through it. She knows I will do anything for her so back on the yo yo! Not happy with myself right now.

I'm glad you guys are seeing if you are doing favor, providing emotional and financial support for a spouse that is in an active affair, you are building the NORM for them to be able to expect it.

It makes it much worse for you and harder to almost impossible to undo.

Pulling all of your emotional and financial support also allows them to see the reality of their relationship with the OP. Many times the OP is there just for the fun and sex, and the other pieces you were providing. When the OP has to provide those other pieces they are likely to not want to deal with the "drama", and will send that H or W back home because they don't want to deal with it.

I understand this very well. I eventually learned that as long as OM was in her life, that I would not be in her life, let alone doing favors for her. I think that you need to get to that place.

Yes, you are enabling her affair by agreeing to do these favors. You are NOT allowing her to see REAL life. That she is a mother and that her responsibilities are going to be part of her life, EVEN IF she is with OM.

[Beardown]

Thank you Arsene for the the livestrong link about detaching. I am beginning to understand what that means.

[Beardown]

Denver,
Thank you very much for taking the time to read my sitch. I admire your tenacity and you give all of us hope that our marriages can be saved. Thank you for paying it forward.

I took my wedding vows seriously and believe we are in a bad time but would hard work and patience we can get through this. My W and had an amazing first few years and strongly believe we can get that back.

Trust is going to be the hardest part. This past year, she has lived a lie. We will have plenty to work on to build that trust back.

I understand while the OM is in the picture our marriage is a distant memory. I am ok with that for now because I have made great strides in working on me. I found my inner happiness. I took stepped back and really dissected these past few years and know when things went south, what I did to contribute and what she failed to do to help the situation. We both have different love languages and we tried to show our love the way we wanted to be loved. I wish I would have seen that before.

I am not the most religious person in the world but since I found out about the OM I have felt a presence around me ever since. Call me crazy but it is a calming presence that has allowed me to really focus on the task at hand rather than waist emotions on anger and revenge. My gut tells me to keep the faith that this will have a happy ending just like it told me that their was trouble a few months ago.

[Beardown]

Journal Entry Friday, October 25

I had a good day today and even ended with W contacting me for the first time since Tuesday. Two weeks ago my W began texting and calling almost every day. The phone calls have changed from short business talks to more casual info about what is going on in our lives. I think the DBing is working. I didn't respond to W last few texts because they weren't question oriented. I let them go. I received a text tonight:

W: Not Talking?
ME: Been busy what's up?
W: You didn't answer my question
ME: I am always here if you want to talk.
W: What?
W: Did you show S the pic I sent you last night?
ME: Yes S saw it last night, he also says he saw you on TV, LOL

Five minutes later she calls and talks about the game and other stuff. During the 20 minute conversation she asked what we were doing for dinner but I didn't take the bait. We talked for a bit after the conversation and I told her I was going to have to letter go but would have S call later.

During my S's conversation he said to W OK we'll see you tomorrow. And her response was Oh are you guys going to stop over tomorrow (sounding happy) and I then reminded S we would see her Sunday. I got the impression she hoped we would stop over tomorrow.

I am not sure if she went to the event with OM after all. During our conversation she stated that her co-worker that she went with's S said he saw her on TV. The way she has been acting, I wonder if the fantasy life with OM has taken a turn.

I am not going to get my hopes up I have read to many on here get their hopes up only to be smacked by a 2x4 and sent back a few steps. I am however going to document positive baby steps that make me believe DBing is working.

I would love to hear what everyone else thinks about the turn of events tonight?