Riding the Bull

[25yearsmlc]

I read this as your wife reaching out to you again about the move to the touristy area. I wasn't thrilled with all your answers but she didn't shoot them down either.

Also her discussion of her father and how her mom never forgave him and became bitter was, to me, a sure fire sign of her wondering about whether and how you'd ever get past this...or if you'd be like her mom...

so in that regard, you did quite well.

Hi everyone and thanks for your concern and presence. It's always comforting to know that you are around.

I haven't been on for a while for a few reasons but the main one is that I had a minor motorcycle accident on Thursday on my way to work and hurt the fingers of my left hand which make it difficult to type (and probably impossible to play the guitar tomorrow for my gig ).

This is interesting for a few reasons. First of all, while I was picking myself up and making sure the old man I was trying to avoid when I got off (because he suddenly decided to cross the road in front of me on his bicycle without looking and/or signaling his intentions), was not hurt, my W called to make sure I was not hurt (???). Interesting that in a city of 8 million people, I would have an accident in front of one of W's friend and that the friend would call her to let her know (but not come to see if I was ok).

I'd bet money the friend told her you were fine and that she saw you get up and check on the other guy.

Don't sweat this as your w came over and SAW you with her own eyes. I mean, how hurt could you be?

Other interesting thing about it is that later, when I got home and W got there (she was going to come anyway to spend the night with D8 but came earlier to make sure I was ok) she showed little or no interest in my wounds and even at the clinic across the street, seemed totally uninvolved and uncaring. Having read here about such instances in much worse cases, I was not surprised, but a little saddened by it.

watch those continued expectations....
--- W was pleasant and a bit chatty and overall it wasn't a bad day.

she was pleasant and chatty. So much for the zero concern...

At bed time, we said our good nights and W and D8 went to D8's bedroom and I went to mine to continue reading while listening to music.

At around 23:00, I heard someone in the dinning room making a bit more noise than was warranted for that time and although tempted, I stayed in my room. Some time later, there was a very low knock at my door. In fact, so low that I thought I'd imagined it but still said to come in. No one came in so I was starting to think I had indeed imagined it when I heard it again. It was W who told me she was making herself a coffee and asking if I'd like one. I guess that is where any "good" DBer would have said :"No thanks" and closed the door.

I didn't. I figured that she wanted to talk and since she hadn't told me anything about her discussion with D8, I thought it might be about that so I went out in the dinning room and we both sat at the table with our drinks and spent the following 3 1/2 hours having a great convo about everything and nothing, about her childhood, her dreams, her regrets, her present life, D8, her family and a bit of light R talk thrown in as well.

SHE initiated a conversation. Would you prefer she leave and go to OM to talk? She shared a lot. Disclosure builds intimacy. IT's also a two way street so when the listening part is over, Don't forget that.

Again too much was said for me to go through the actual dialogue but here are a few things we said, in no particular order.

W told me about her father, and how he was such a well-loved gentle man. How he'd had an affair and W's mother had never forgiven him, or let him forget about it.

How she feels that her mom was always a bit crazy.

INTERESTING details...really. To me it's telling and she's probing. Maybe nothing about her being ready to try again BUT the talk she had with D8 CANNOT have been a breeze,

so you keeping the road home, paved and smooth, helps.

How her mom used to read her diary as a teen and mock her about it in front of the family.

How her mom was very angry all the time and W was always embarrassed to bring her friends (or BF)over.

Was there any "old Arsene" in that story to see if you are really different,

or do you think your w was really only referring to the mother? Just asking.

W expressed her deep hatred for Islam in her country and how she was always on the "wrong" side of discussions when in school but also more recently with her sisters and her mom.

Meaning now that she's with OM or that she's just always not on the same page OR WHAT???

She also told me about the questions D8 had asked.
1.Why didn't she stay with us? Because her and daddy were not together anymore.
2.Why not? It's difficult to understand but you'll understand when you're a bit older.

(D8 later told me that she'd also asked if W would ever come back and said that W had just stared blankly and not answered it.)

Could be better but realistically this ^^ was the best you'd likely get. A non answer and refusal to say "no way".

W expressed that she often missed our motorcycle trips. Here I did a bad DB move and told her (with a smile) that the bike was in the garage and all she had to do is say a word and we'd be off into the sunset. She laughed and kept eye contact so I went on to tell her (another bad DB move???) that I knew where she stood now and she knew where I stood now so there was no need to play games and pretend and that there is nothing I'd love more than to take her out on another motorcycle adventure someday.


so, where does SHE stand? I'm not clear. What's with all the talk of the other city and her regrets?

Sorry but I'm not at all clear on where she stands.

Yes she said she "loves" the OM but women also want their kids with their dads AND we want financial security and we want intact families and we want men who TRY to please us and maybe, maybe she wonders if you are that man.


She kept eye contact, smiled and nodded, pensively. The convo went on on lighter topics and eventually she started talking about the incredible changes she sees in me and how it's actually nice to hang out with me nowadays.

Very positive. Very.

Here I probably talked a bit too much and I told her I was happy with the person I was discovering in me and I liked what I was doing now and how I was handling myself within the framework of my present life. I threw in that I was confident that I would never regret what I'm doing now (probably a bit over the top).

Not great b/c it is you tooting your horn instead of just listening to see what else you could HEAR from her....but could have been worse.

Don't beat yourself up but at least STFU while she's speaking and let their be SOME silence that SHE can fill with more...info....

A few things worth noting are the fact that she said she was happy that my lease ended up being only for one year instead of the 2 years initially requested by landlord. She then asked me where I wanted to move at the end of the lease and if I'd consider the touristic area of the country.


Um, why do you think she asked about the length of the lease AND whether you'd be willing to move to where SHE wishes she was??


I said it was too early to tell and that I was now living my life day by day.

SIGH...okay fine. I guess it's detachment..but isn't it possible she wants you to lead and give her some peace and security? Not in a controllign way but in an "here's an exit route" way. Maybe she wants to be rescued and at first it was rescued FROM you but maybe now it's a rescue BY you...

just a thought.


I asked her if she wanted to move and she said she'd been thinking about it and she thought that she'd made the wrong choice by choosing the city were we now were. She said that the touristic area would probably be better for D8 (it actually felt like she was making plans for both of us, but without actually saying that it's what she was doing).


At the least she wants to know if you will go if she moves AND that means d8 goes too. This is not the first time she's asked this. Is OM there? Go ahead and ask her if you wonder. I would wonder.


When I talked about cutting up a mosquito net we'd had made specially for out bed/bedroom in our house (which is now rented) to make screens for the windows in this house, she said that maybe I shouldn't, that "we" might need it later. I said if "I" did I would just have another one made then.

why'd you say that? To undo the other stuff?


She told me how her mom had simply offered to buy her a scooter as she thinks were are now struggling financially because when she asked where I was working, W told her I had part time work. MIL still doesn't know we are separated.

Sounds innocuous enough. And pretty darn kind of her "mean crazy" mom..And you are struggling financially.

How do you feel about signals it sends about you as a provider?

Don't pooh pooh it. That stuff matters to women, right or wrong, fair or not. We want security...even if we also want independence.

W also had much to complain about the work ethics among some of the musicians she works with and again talked about how difficult it was to "have" to take on a job that she doesn't want. She talked about how nice it used to be (when we were together)to be able to refuse a job simply because she wanted to spend time with D8, but followed by saying that this security she had then probably made her lazy.

Don't mind read into that in a negative way. This^^ is mostly her regretting a choice made when you were a different man. The more she wonders if that "data" about you no longer applies, the better.

She told me how nice it had been to buy her guitar, on her own, and again to choose her scooter, on her own, just because they felt right. I guess I've always been someone to "over-shop" before buying something and I would always want what was best for her while sometimes she just wanted something just because. It didn't have to be the best.

Other than the few comments mentioned above and a few other opinions voiced on light topics, I listened and validated, and asked for clarifications. W did most of the talking and at 3 am, we both decided to call it a night.

D8 woke us both up at 9 am with a breakfast of boiled eggs and toast.

It turns out that W's plan had been to take D8 out to buy her a hamster but she had forgotten that everything was closed as it was a Muslim holiday on Friday. The day was pleasant and light. We interacted a bit but also stayed out of each other's way quite a bit. We made chocolate chip cookies with D8 then D8 and I watched a DVD while W stayed in D8's room texting on her phone and sleeping.

W left at around 5 pm to go to work and upon leaving, she thanked me for a nice evening and for listening to her. I reciprocated.

I expect W to go NC this week as she seem to always do after such convos. I also expect many 2X4s but I have to tell you that again, it felt right and I feel good about how it went and what was said. None of this was initiated by me and I was able to leave her with a good impression. I also got some more insight on her feelings and was able to keep it light enough and most importantly, pleasant and stress free.

No 2 x 4s here. At least no more of them..and let the NC happen. Give her time to process what her probes yielded and how she feels as a mother. I cannot imagine how deeply it must hurt her to feel she has abandoned d8.