Confused at Where I am!

[JamesH]

Sandi2,

Thank you for your insight.

There are a couple of things I should also mention.

In 2009 her father passed away quite suddenly. My mother-in-law was an emotional wreck (understandably) and my wife took it on herself to be her mothers well-being 'protector'. It has taken its toll on my wife, to the point where she considers her mother like a "4th child" (her words).

I have been supportive throughout all this and have tried to make it easier for her. I have to be honest though and say that as I felt our relationship was taking a back seat (I felt like the very last priority in her life) I withdrew from her and focused my energy on my career, children and hobbies.

Our children are very much a handful. In our bomb-drop conversation, she also mentioned that she was not happy with not just me but the children and the general craziness of our lives. She said that sometimes she felt like just staying at her office longer for the peace and quiet and that she dreaded coming home.

I know that I have contributed to this situation by not being more patient with the kids when they act out. My wife gets upset, then I get upset and then we end up upset at each other. Its a nasty circle (more of the same behaviour!) that has served us no purpose for a long time. That is currently one of my 180's and it seems to be working. Our house has been more peaceful the past two weeks and I know that she has noticed. However, I think at this moment, she thinks that all this new-found ability I have to listen and talk to her, my peace of mind, etc is all an act to win her back. I can understand that perspective.

We have had some conversations about the future of our relationship. Most have been initiated by her which went ok, but you are 100% right when you say I should not bring it up. I did one morning and it was clearly a backwards step.

I have laid out my 'wants' very clearly one time and I wont be doing it again. She knows my position. I have told her that I want to work on this marriage and that I will not support in any way any kind of a separation.

She has talked less lately about "if we separate". When she did, there were some bizarre comments like, "if we eventually meet someone else will we need to have the other approve the new partner?" and "no matter what, we still will have to take vacations together with the kids".
I told her in no uncertain terms that this would not work and would be completely unacceptable. Certainly smacks of wanting the cake and eating it too to me.

Right now, I am doing everything I can. I realize I have made mistakes and not been there for her emotionally when I should have been. I am really treating this as an awakening for myself. I just hope I'm not too late to save the marriage with the woman I know I love, but have made mistakes with. I got sloppy and complacent. I know better than that now and my life and attitude are different already because of it.

I just dont know how to get this reconciled if she doesn't want any physical contact with me of any kind?

Do I just keep doing what I am doing and give it time?

Its so hard. Thank god for a place like this to get some advice and comfort.

Thank you all.....

[AnotherStander]

I just dont know how to get this reconciled if she doesn't want any physical contact with me of any kind?

3 years of no intimacy is a long, long time. That points to some very serious issues that need resolving. It should have been addressed long ago because now that your W is on the verge of walking she's not going to be interested in therapy for that. What Sandi talked about is something I went through with my W as well, after our 3rd child my W became severely depressed. It may have been hormonal, it did not happen with the first 2 kids but man, it really hit her hard after the 3rd. She did end up on A/D's and it totally turned her around in every way including her labido. Unfortunately this isn't a subject you can easily discuss with her now because she'll view it as you making excuses for what she perceives as you ruining the M. All I can say is keep up the DB'ing and if/ when things start turning around then you might talk to her about it then, ask her if you could go to her PCP with her and discuss the sexual issues. Don't specifically mention depression, just suggest that you should talk to a PCP about these ongoing issues and see what they suggest. They will likely ask questions and maybe give a question/ answer test to check for depression as part of the process.

[ForeverYoung]

Do I just keep doing what I am doing and give it time?

Yes, continue working on yourself, and be consistent about it. Patient too.

I think she just needs the space for now but its confusing in many ways because we are talking and communicating much better in the last 2 weeks than we have in the last 2 years! Im making time to be with her in the morning before we go to work and before the kids get up. She seems to be enjoying that I am connecting with her.

You want to maintain your new connection but don’t overdo it. Let her set the pace here. If you’re always the one pressing for this time, she may start to feel it as pressure. On the other hand, not enough emotional connection is what landed you here, and if you don’t rebuild it she’s likely to go find it somewhere else. Your ultimate goal is to build your connection but don’t try to rush it! Let her set the pace. This means if she's not up for talking you just happily go do something else. Also, don't be afraid to be the one to end an interaction. Hanging on her to talk is a form of pursuit, and is not attractive.

I just dont know how to get this reconciled if she doesn't want any physical contact with me of any kind?

Get used to the no physical contact thing, (and by the way, welcome to the club ) it may be a while until she’s open to that. Don’t push for it, just act like everything is ok. Don't let this discourage you from moving forward. She can decide to love you again.

I think at this moment, she thinks that all this new-found ability I have to listen and talk to her, my peace of mind, etc is all an act to win her back.

If you appear to be trying too hard you’ll look desperate in her eyes, which is not attractive. Make your changes for you, like you don’t even care if she notices. You need to show her that you are confident that you’ll be ok, even better than ok, even if she leaves. You have to truly believe this or she will sense it as fake, and just a trick to win her back. This is probably the hardest part to figure out.

[JamesH]

Thanks for the advice. This is killing me on the inside. Im finding it very hard to accept that it has come to this. I told myself it was a bump in the road, that we were strong together. We have been through a lot together and I cant imagine being without her.

I should clarify that we have been intimate in the last 3 years, just not as we were previously. Our sex life dropped to around once every two weeks, if that. Pretty crappy. That didn't help my state of mind with things either.

Im really concerned at how she became so suddenly detached from me, almost like she is a different person in an instant.

She was talking a lot about her work this morning. I was listening intently and at one point I felt bad for the position she was in and my face reacted accordingly. Somehow she took this as a negative and said she should stop talking about work with me so much because I looked like I was fed up of hearing it. I quickly explained that this was not the case and that my face was simply sympathy for the position she was in. She accepted this and I then said that 'thats what Im here for' etc, etc.
She then hit me with the 'you haven't wanted to hear about this stuff for 12 years' line which I found rather hurtful but I have to accept that this is how she sees it.
We have had a lot of great times but she is totally focusing on the negatives at the moment. Gotta put my feelings aside at the moment and keep pushing on with the new me.

Told her I was going out tonight and she didn't even ask where or who I'm going with! Just said 'go...you should do it'.

Going to stay so strong for my kids but wow, this is incredible.

Even if we get through this, Im worried that I will be always wondering if this will happen again regardless of my efforts.

[AnotherStander]

I should clarify that we have been intimate in the last 3 years, just not as we were previously. Our sex life dropped to around once every two weeks, if that. Pretty crappy. That didn't help my state of mind with things either.

OK, well that's different than no intimacy at all. This probably caused a lot of friction though, because she no doubt thought twice a month was plenty (she's LD) and you clearly do not (you're probably HD). Often the LD partner feels pressure from the HD partner and that can cause conflict over time, that may have been a contributing factor.

Im really concerned at how she became so suddenly detached from me, almost like she is a different person in an instant.

That's actually pretty typical. Many people (me included) lament how the WAS was saying ILY, signing emails XXOO and showing acts of kindness one day and then flipping a switch the next after BD and totally turning it all off. It truly is like a different person steps in.

She was talking a lot about her work this morning. I was listening intently and at one point I felt bad for the position she was in and my face reacted accordingly. Somehow she took this as a negative and said she should stop talking about work with me so much because I looked like I was fed up of hearing it. I quickly explained that this was not the case and that my face was simply sympathy for the position she was in. She accepted this and I then said that 'thats what Im here for' etc, etc.

Great job listening! Don't forget to validate her emotions, if you do that then she won't be confused about your facial expressions. Say something like "wow, that sounds frustrating, is that how you feel?" Toss in nods and "mmm hmm" now and then so she knows you're still paying attention, and hold eye contact.

She then hit me with the 'you haven't wanted to hear about this stuff for 12 years' line which I found rather hurtful but I have to accept that this is how she sees it.

Hurtful? You should see it as a positive step!! She's acknowledging a 180! She's telling you that you're doing something different than in the past, that's good!

Even if we get through this, Im worried that I will be always wondering if this will happen again regardless of my efforts.

Or one of you could contract cancer, or die in a firey car crash, or fall off a cliff while hiking, or... The thing I've learned about worrying is the things we worry about never happen. It's the things we don't worry about that bite our butts. I spent years worrying about my job while thinking my marriage was great. Here I am today, still at the same job (over 10 years now) and trying to piece together a shattered marriage. What good did all my years of worrying do?

[ForeverYoung]

James, all the feelings and thoughts you have listed are normal for someone in your (our) position. You’re actually doing pretty good for only 2 weeks since bomb drop.

Don’t fret over every word, any particular conversation or even a slip up you have with your wife. By this I mean don’t be thinking the next conversation is going to fix, or end your marriage. It’s not. You just entered a marathon, not a sprint. Keeping studying and be consistent.

[JamesH]

thank you for the replies once again.

I feel more confident that I am doing the right things.

I also appreciate the view that my 180's are working.

it appears I just need to be very patient and keep my emotions in check and keep doing what I'm doing.

one question which burns deep in me is the possibility of an affair. I am really hoping its not the case, but even if it is, what can I do about it? nothing....

[AnotherStander]

one question which burns deep in me is the possibility of an affair. I am really hoping its not the case, but even if it is, what can I do about it? nothing....

There are 3 types- PA, EA and the less talked about IA. The last is "imaginary", so even if a WAS isn't engaged in the first two he or she very likely has conjured up an imaginary person in their head that they want to leave the M to find. The person has a dazzling smile, a buff body and lives to serve them with unconditional love. The WAS is quite convinced this person is just waiting for them to free themselves up so they can get together.

My point is this, all of our spouses ARE engaged in one of the 3 types of affairs. DB'ing techniques are the same regardless, all that changes is our perception of the sitch. And when I say perception, what I mean is this- you see your R one way right now and you are DB'ing to save it. If you found out tomorrow that your W has been engaged in a PA for 2 years, what changed? Nothing other than your perception. Yesterday you perceived she wasn't in a PA, but in fact she was. The actual situation is what it is, the new info only changed the way you see it. See what I mean? So just keep DB'ing and try not to get bogged down in "what if's".

[sandi2]

Thanks for sharing more information about her and her mother. Believe it or not, I did much of the same kind of stuff. I had my sister living with us (more than once) trying to help her work her life out....while I was totally ignoring my own H! Sad thing about it....I didn't even see what I was doing b/c he never complained. So, it took "life" and me maturing more to finally understand that I could not, and should not undertake my relatives problems as if it were my own....but rather take care of my own business.

Your W was trying to help her mother in a really bad time, but when you take a parent to "raise"...you do not do them any favors. If your W tries to make all her mother's decisions and protect her, and all the other ways, your MIL will get to the place she won't think for herself and will actually become like a helpless cripple. Then, somebody will "have" to stay with her all the time. I understand b/c I felt all those things for my mom when my dad died. Giving them love and support is what they need, and it could be easy to carry it too far. I'm like your W.....and I have a really hard time keeping things in my life balanced. You're not in a good position right now to try to point this all out to your W. It's a bad situation, but saying anything at the moment would be a very bad mistake. But this helps us to see what kind of stress is added on your R.

Here's what I suggest. Since she has admitted that she doesn't want to come home b/c of all the chaos, then you need to do all that you can to make home a calm and happy place. From what you've said, you are already stepping up with the kids.

When both parents work and come home for their second job (ugh) and face parenting little kids....it can become more weight than our bodies can carry. Something will start to break down. I see this more and more with young families. They are spread too thin.

If you and your W agree, or if she'll at least support you, then you need to lay down some rules with the kids and then you'll have to be the enforcer. Let me warn you, that means daddy will have to be the bad guy occasionally (maybe a lot at first), but it is well worth it in order to have peace in your home and when you take them out. Nobody else is going to raise your children.
Don't give them a big long list of new rules to start out. Keep it simple. Start out with maybe three. Here's my suggestion:

1. No fussing/fighting.
2. No tattling (unless someone is hurt or in danger).
3. Do what you're told the first time.

Now #3 will be where they will test you the most. My parents never, ever told me but one time and I obeyed them. If I hesitated, they may ask if I heard them (which was the only warning I'd get) and then if I didn't move very quickly, I paid the consequences. There was no yelling, period! It was all done with calm authority. I used the same rule with my children. I wasn't abused and neither were my children. And guess what? Nobody ever minded seeing us come to their house with our kids, b/c they minded us.

So, didn't mean to beat your ears down, but I promise if you'll have your kids stick to those three things, it will bring more peace and harmony in your home than you can imagine. The children need to see their dad in this role of authority over them. You can still play with them and have a great time together, but they need a father to keep order. Once you get them headed in the right way, then you can add another rule, like "no yelling inside". Yeah, that one really helps the nerves! (lol)

Okay, so with all these changes you're making, don't expect your W to jump into the air and click her heels. She believes it won't last. She believes you are doing these changes to get her back, and truth is....you are. Hopefully, you will be determined to work to improve things at home and also to improve yourself, but we both know that your main goal right now is to save your M.

So do what you can to help with chores, etc. but please don't to do all the housework, b/c it will not accomplish the desired effect on the R. (Too long to get into all of that right now.)

[sandi2]

Oh, I meant to add something about what you said about lack of sex. If she was doing it every couple of weeks, you aren’t hurting near as much as a lot of people. But now that she's told you her feelings, I doubt you'll be getting it at all. And, that's what you'll be thinking about the most! You may have let it go without saying much in the past, but now things are different. You’ll be wondering and thinking about it more & more. You already are! IDK, maybe b/c men relate sex to.......EVERYTHING? It's your security in your MR. You want it now more than ever to be assured that she still loves you, right? But most women don't feel that way when their hormones are short to h@ll and they're stressed to the gills, unhappy, and want to leave the M. So, just saying......don't be taking the M temperature by trying to touch her when she doesn't want to be touched. KWIM?