Chasing Ghosts

[Beardown]

Thank you for the input AS, I welcome all feedback especially those vets that have been through this. My name is still on the title of the house on on our mortgage. We just refinanced two weeks ago and we both signed for it.

I did talk to a lawyer and I have every right to drill the locks out and be in my home but that could start a battle which I do not want. I love my wife more than anything I feel if I let the A run it's course while I better my life she will come back.

[Beardown]

AS
Thanks for the clarification on going dark and detaching. I feel that detaching has worked for both of us, she is not always on my mind and it seems that she has responded positively by reaching out text and call. I know she is just as confused and I know I have to let herself find her way through the fog but patience is not easy. I have read DR but it sounds like I should run back to the bookstore and get DB as well. Since my conversations are limited it sounds like DB may help. Again, thanks for the suggestion. I have now read more books in three months than I have in 10 years. LOL

[theUF]

Why can't I say no! W called and asked for a favor. She told me she had the chance to go to a professional sporting event Thursday and asked if I would take our S since it's her night to have him. She wants to exchange for another night. I know she will end up with the OM for this event and I should stop being their for her every time she needs something. I can't detach from favors and it's driving me nuts. Any tips, I tried saying I was busy but she wanted to know what I was doing and saw right through it. She knows I will do anything for her so back on the yo yo! Not happy with myself right now.

Disclaimer: This is just what I did and may be the wrong way to go at it, but I have been in the same situation. I basically just said I didn't have any plans and agreed to have S for the sake of me and S, but told her it wouldn't mean automatically exchanging days. That way she knows I'm doing it for me and S, and in the short run she might end up losing that day. Realistically though, I probably need to exchange sooner or later.

May sound stupid but at first I was afraid to be viewed as her babysitter, enabling her to live her life. I won't let that stand in the way of me spending time with S though, that's far more important.

Or you could try to actually be busy. That way you don't have time to do her favors and since you're telling the truth there is nothing to see through.

[Beardown]

Good point theUF

I have always been there for my S and embrace any chance I can have him. Letting her know that I'm doing it for my S and I would be perfect. Need to work on being busy though. Thanks for the suggestion.

[AnotherStander]

I did talk to a lawyer and I have every right to drill the locks out and be in my home but that could start a battle which I do not want. I love my wife more than anything I feel if I let the A run it's course while I better my life she will come back.

OK, well with that in mind, if it were me, I'd consider having a talk with her. Maybe something along the lines of:

"W, I've been doing a lot of thinking and I should not have moved out. I would like to work on things with you, and I can't do that effectively if I live somewhere else. Plus I feel like I'm being punished for something that isn't my fault. I've checked into this (not sure if I'd mention L) and I do have the legal right to move back in with or without your consent since we own the home jointly. So I'm going to move back in on XX date. If you feel that you want to maintain separation then maybe we can live in separate bedrooms, we can work out those details later. But regardless, I will be moving back in."

If she goes into rant mode, just tell her you'd be happy to discuss it with her later when she calms down and then excuse yourself.

I understand your concerns about creating a conflict, but honestly, she's sleeping with OM in your bed? THAT is creating conflict, saying you're going to move back in pales in comparison to that.

[Beardown]

Thanks AS,

Fear is causing me not to have that conversation? Why? Afraid she will pull the plug on our marriage. But hasn't she already? What is the worst thing that can happen, I'm already living it! This would be a 180, I have always been passive and gone with the flow avoiding conflict.I will give this serious thought.

Thank you!

[Beardown]

I have come so far but she is still full blown in the A and it may get ugly. But on the other hand my 180's would be much more noticeable.

My 180's

GAL
Get out with friends once a week
Learn Dreamweaver to get new job
Look good/smell good/feel good
Stand up for my self
Work out again
Continue to find my inner happiness
Be awesome - Laughed at myself for that one

[Beardown]

AS
I know I should do this sooner than later but with my DBing and 180ing working I was thinking Dec 1 I would try to move back in. We refinanced and don't have a mortgage payment till December so that would be the perfect scenario. I know she will struggle with the payment on her own I just wanted her to end the affair and ask me to move home.

[Arsene]

Hey BD,

Sorry that you had to find yourself posting here but in our sitches, it's the best place to be with the best people to talk to.

You've been getting excellent advice from AS so I have nothing more to add except for this little thing on detachment.

You may be misunderstanding detachment. It's not the same as going dark. Going dark is the LRT, and it's called "last resort" because that's what it is. You use it when all else has failed. Detachment is pulling back and being a bit mysterious. If W sends 3 texts, respond to 1 a few hours later, then maybe the next right away, then maybe the next not at all. And when you respond, be friendly, not cold and short. The idea is to show her a confident, happy you that she can't live without, but in a way that makes her wonder if you've decided to move on without her. If she calls, answer sometimes and other times let it go to voicemail and call back an hour later. If you go out to a movie by yourself and she asks where you were just say you were busy. Things like that.

From what I understand, detachment is not an action you do but a state of being. It's the ability to not be affected by everything your W says, does, doesn't say or doesn't do. It's accepting that what is simply is and that your reaction to things or feelings about them won't necessarily make things better.

Here is a link to a description of detachment which might be useful.

http://www.livestrong.com/article/14712-developing-detachment/

I think it's one of the most difficult things to deal with simply because we are emotionally attached to our Spouses and therefore affected by what they do.

This will undoubtedly create an aura of mystery about you as AS says, as you'll behave as you might if you'd decided to move on.

BTW, I'm a big fan of Denver as well. Very insightful and definitely a loving approach to DB, IMO. Lots to learn from those threads.

[Denver_2010]

I took care of all the housework, the dishes, the cleaning, caring for our son, taking care of our dog, the laundry and even some cooking. I thought this was showing my love for her, after all I am a pleaser.

Well that's fantastic, but unfortunately you may be trying to communicate to her in the wrong love language. I ran across the same thing with my W, I assumed her LL was the same as mine and couldn't understand why she didn't respond to my attempts to show her love in that LL. Please read the 5 Love Languages, it'll open your eyes to what you've been doing wrong on this. It opened mine! I discovered my W's LL was completely different and was one I had not been feeding her love through at all!

I began working on things that bothered her. She even said that she noticed some changes but was afraid I would go back to the same old me.

You're on the right track, but DB'ing takes time. It'll take months of consistent 180's before she believes they're real and not just a trick to get her back.

I agreed and decided that our S would stay in the house and we would take turns leaving.

Do not leave. If she wants S, then tell her you understand and support her decision. But if that's what she wants then SHE needs to leave. SHE needs to suffer the consequences of leaving the home, finding a new place, moving stuff, paying new bills, etc.

After some soul searching I printed out the papers and began filling them out.

Don't do that! If she wants formal S or D, then let her fill out the papers. You can support her decision without actually helping her fill the papers out.

For some reason she wouldn't sign the papers.

She's confused and doesn't know what she wants. That's why it's important for you not to argue with her and not to help the process along. Often when a WAS faces the reality of seeing it all in black and white on paper, they back off.

The OM spent Labor Day in my house, in my bed. I was sick to my stomach. I couldn't sleep, eat, much less breath.

This is one of the reasons you don't want to leave the house. It's also a boundary you should have established with her- no OM in your house.

The texting began almost 6 months ago and the PA has been going on at least 2 and a half months. I could use some reassurance that I am doing the right thing and that our marriage can be saved.

Yes, it can absolutely be saved. MANY marriages have survived infidelity. There are no guarantees, but follow DB principals and even if the M isn't saved you'll emerge better, stronger and more confident. Most affairs last less than 6 months. Initially there's a dopamine release that gives people those "puppy love" feelings, but it goes away in a matter of weeks or months and that's when the reality of what they're doing hits home. Often they realize the new sitch is no better than the old one, or may even be worse. That's usually when the A ends. Plus the whole excitement thing of having an affair wears off too.

In the meantime, you need to take stock of what happened in your M and your contributions to the problems, and you need to do 180's on those things. You need to show your W a stronger, more confident you. Think about what you were like when she met you and try to be more like that guy. You mentioned being a QB, I bet you were heavy on the alpha. But then you mentioned you now do all the household stuff, that's all beta. Beta makes women feel comfy, but it doesn't attract them to men like alpha does. Get in touch with your alpha side again. Check out the Married Man's Sex Life Primer for some great info on alpha versus beta behavior.

I know I screwed up along the way and never should have moved out of the house but I panicked.

If you can figure out a way to get back in then do so.

but would it be best to just let her go?

No, it would not be better. Divorce does not fix anything (unless there's physical violence involved). Kids suffer significant harm in D and it's usually something they carry throughout life. D very rarely makes either spouse happier and often makes them far less happy. No one wins in D. Sometimes no matter how hard you fight it still ends up there, but at least if you fight you can rest assured you did what you could.

It's seems that's the only way she will wakeup out of the fog.

No, that won't do it. Only time and space will bring her out of the fog.

Hi BD. I am catching up, so may have a few replies in a row.

First, I am sorry that you have to be here on this board. It is a sh!tty situation for anyone to have to go looking for this place. That said, it is a wonderful place, with wonderful people, to get support and advice from others who have been, or are, in your shoes.

You have already been through a lot with this. I know how emotionally exhausting it can be. One of the most important things for you to do is to take stock of your emotional fuel to keep going. Preserve when necessary. Seek out outlets to refuel when necessary.

I agree with most of what AS told you. 5LL's is great. I highly suggest it as well. The other book, the Married Man's Sex Planner, I have not read so I can't give you an opinion. Take AS's word for it though as he has been through a lot as well and give good advice.

The only thing that I'm not positive that I agree with is that moving on is not the best thing to do. I'm not saying that I do NOT agree, but I think that it is a personal choice. That is a question that only you can answer my friend.

So, let me ask you...

1) WHY do you want to save your M?

Based on the facts of your situation, another question keeps popping up in my mind...

2) Do you believe that you would EVER be able to trust your W again?

Okay... back to reading.