Hello! 20 year marriage teetering on the brink...

[Beardown]

Hi AS,
I feel for you trying to detach with a child. It seems as though I become the sitter when her exciting plans happen to fall on the days she has him. I would like to say no that she needs to be responsible for her him but that would start an arguement. It seems like you and your W are having good conversations, I can see how that would get confusing!

[theUF]

AnotherStander - I can relate for sure. We only have 1 S and live 20 minutes drive from each other. I'm trying to detach and actually get a couple of days without contact, but it seems there is always something to discuss or arrange. It has only lasted a month, but even though we almost exclusivly get in contact for "business" I don't think there have been 2 consecutive days without contact.

I talk, listen and listen. When it seems we're finished talking business I say goodbye.

Beardown I sometimes feel the same way, just today actually. It's like she thinks I'm doing HER a favor by having S when I'm not really scheduled to. I basically just told her "hey, I don't have any plans and of course I want to spend as much time with S as possible", her plans was cancelled and she said I didn't need to have him unless I wanted to. This gave me the opportunity to tell her that I wanted to have him for the sake of spending time with him, nothing else, so it's still on.

[Arsene]

I pretty much feel the same way. We had a very good marriage. Sure there were things we could have worked on, but great marriages are great because the spouses work at them, not because they give up and walk away at the first sign of discontent. We could have a great M if W was willing to work on it like I am, but for now she'd rather just give up.

Yeah mate. Well said. I'm looking at my friends and people I know who have much worse marriages than we ever had (and W agrees with that) but they are working things out and that makes them successful marriages, while our "great" marriage is at risk of becoming a failure, if W doesn't reconsider.

[AnotherStander]

Hey all, first a journaling update.

Last night I was thinking about how I had not seen any baby steps for a while, so I started going over things and realized that maybe I was looking for big ones and perhaps missing some small ones such as:

W paid me a few compliments on how great the house looked (I did some pretty major Halloween decorating at the request of S9) and even mentioned how nice my car looked, asked if I had detailed it. These may sound like nothing (and granted they're not much), but it is a change as she has not offered any such compliments since BD although she used to pre-BD.

Also this is hard to describe, but the way W has been looking at me lately is different. For quite a while after BD she wouldn't make much eye contact and when she did it was distant, but now it's more like that old "I enjoy being with you" look.

Another interesting thing- I ran across a few Halloween decorations when I was setting them up that were W's, so I gave them to her yesterday. Then I asked her about a small group of buildings I had set out, I thought maybe her mom had bought them but I couldn't remember for sure. I asked her and she said that yes, her mom had bought them for us. I asked her if she wanted me to box them back up so she could take them and she said something like "you've already got them out and S9 was looking at them, so just leave them and we'll figure it out next year." What's interesting about this is up to this point she's been trying to get all her stuff out of my house. She even went up into the attic and went through the Halloween stuff and took some of it when she moved, but missed these because they were buried under other stuff. So it seems she no longer feels an urgent need to make that clean break.

None of this is anything to get very excited about, but it seems to be part of a slow warming up that's been taking place. And THAT is something to be hopeful about

Regarding GAL, since BD I have not bought one single thing for myself. I was concerned about my finances, but now that W is out and I'm paying all the bills and for kid stuff I have a better handle on things and can see I'm doing OK financially. So I bought a video game for S9 and me (co-op play) and also went out and bought a new aerobatic R/C heli for myself (I've been flying R/C for around 25 years). I haven't flown anything since BD, I was saving it for when I really felt like my frame of mind was back where it needed to be. And this weekend I finally felt like it was The weather was beautiful and I flew the new heli and some of my older planes and a quad. I also went for some nice rides on one of my Harleys and everywhere I drove this weekend I put the top down on my car. Got my yard mowed and cleaned up and put the Halloween stuff out as mentioned above. Plus S9 and I put some time in on that new game. It was a great weekend, lots of happy times!

I mentioned before that going dim has just not worked, there are too many kid activities for it to be effective. W and I have some kind of interaction almost every day (text, phone, in person). But I don't initiate ANY contact. When she does I do respond, sometimes right away and sometimes an hour or two later. I don't always answer when she calls. When she wants to know if she can swing by sometimes I'm not there and tell her so, but am vague about where I am and what I'm doing. In DB'ing fashion I'm available, but a bit mysterious We're still getting along great, we've still had no M talks since she moved out. I really have no idea at all where her head is, I don't know if she thinks S is the greatest thing ever or if she's thinking about our M. So I'm just sticking to the DB'ing and monitoring the baby steps.

[AnotherStander]

I feel sad that he is trying so hard to make me back off, to want to get out, and I felt like he is winning. He is having fun and he doesn't need me.

First, he's not winning anything. Michele points out in DR that all the facts show that in D both people nearly always lose unless there's physical violence involved. Second, don't assume his life is perfect and fun without you, it very likely isn't. Even if he is acting like it is, chances are he's thinking about you a lot and trying to sort through whether he really wants to do this or not. There are a few former WAS's that post here and they've all mentioned that they acted calm and confident on the outside about their decisions, but they were anything but that on the inside.

Which is where you and I differ. You said one of your issues was yelling at the wife and kids, where as I NEVER yelled, and preferred to "keep the peace" at all costs, which made me appear un confident or weak. She really never fought much either, but the few times she did, my calm refusal to engage would only infuriate her even more! The bottom line is we need to improve our conflict resolution skills, which is one of the things I've been working on.

Quite right, and as I mentioned above communicating at the adult-adult level has really worked wonders for us. W and I have resolved several issues post-BD that could easily have made things worse between us but instead were resolved quite amicably. It's frustrating to learn all these wonderful tools (like DB'ing, 5LL, communication levels, etc.) so LATE in the game!!!!! They are so effective, would be nice to learn about them while the marriage is still strong rather than when it's imploding.

Actually, a "fight" now and then is a good thing, lots of passion during and after, which can lead to a tighter connection. It's when fighting becomes the norm that it becomes destructive.

I know what you mean, I had GF's before W in which we had those passionate fights that resulted in negotations and wonderful making up periods. That's never, ever happened with W though. Whenever I fought she would cower. And there was never a making up period afterwards, just the silent treatment followed by acting like nothing happened.

Hi AS,
I feel for you trying to detach with a child. It seems as though I become the sitter when her exciting plans happen to fall on the days she has him.

I really feel for people who are going through this with really young kids or even babies. That has got to be incredibly tough. At least I don't have to change diapers or make sure they're not eating the furniture I like having them so if W asks me to keep them I'm more than happy to. She's been doing the opposite though, she wants to take them as much as she can on my weeks! Sometimes I let her and sometimes I don't because we already have other plans. Maybe it's an indication she's not so into the swingin' single life after all.

I'm trying to detach and actually get a couple of days without contact, but it seems there is always something to discuss or arrange.

LOL! I know exactly what you mean, there have been days where I thought "OK, today actually looks like a no contact day" and then by the end of it something comes up and W either calls or comes by. We've been separated almost 2 months and I bet there have only been 4 or 5 total NC days.

This gave me the opportunity to tell her that I wanted to have him for the sake of spending time with him, nothing else, so it's still on.

That's good, especially if it's something she complained about before and is a 180 for you. My W complained that I spent too much time watching TV and not enough with the kids. And she was right. That's been one of my 180's, I'm much more involved with the kids and really cut back on TV. Now I only watch it if the kids want to watch something (which isn't often) or if I'm there alone and have finished all my chores for the day.

[Arsene]

Sounds to me like you have that DB thing down mate. I agree with you, though, sometimes you're too close to it to notice the little things, which are really the kind of things you wouldn't notice if all was well in your couple.

It's good that you went out to treat yourself. As you said you were waiting to be in a better frame of mind to get back to your hobby which means you feel like you're there now and I'm sure it shows in front of your W. It probably makes you more attractive or at least more fun to be around.

Glad things are going well mate!

[needgrace]

Exactly, it's the whole happiness trap thing. They think happiness comes from others and that if they're not happy they just need to change their R. The book The Happiness Trap goes into this at length and about how society and Hollywood give us a completely false perception of life- we’re trained that we’re supposed to be happy ALL the time and if we’re not then something is wrong. Truth is we all experience a full range of emotions each day, happiness is just one of them. It’s wrong to view some emotions as good and others as bad because then we try to chase the “good” ones and push the “bad” ones away. The harder we push, the bigger and badder they are when they return. The book teaches that we should accept all emotions as part of life and quit trying to fight them, but learn to live in harmony with them. Our true goal in life shouldn’t be happiness, but contentment. Because happiness, sadness, anger, etc. are all fleeting. We need to find a place where we can be content regardless of our emotions. I think in a lot of ways that’s what DB’ing is about- teaching us to be content with our situation regardless of what our spouse is doing. Because if we’re content, we will be fine whether the spouse returns or not, and we will be fine no matter how long we decide to stand.

AS, I just wanted to say thank you for all your insight and support on the boards for so many people. I love what you wrote above about emotions and the trap we get into because of society's perceptions and expectations.

I also like what you wrote about the difference between marriages that stay together and those that don't is the willingness of the spouses to work on things. So so true.

You are very wise and very kind and I so appreciate your comments all over the board. Thank you.

[bustingout]

AS, I would like to echo NG here. I read your posts and your thread and think the exact same thing.

So thank you as well.

(((( ))))

[PeteWyo]

AS, I wanted to leave you a note on your post. I read through this thread and it certainly does sound like you are doing quite well. It is good to hear that you are spending such good quality time with your children. I sometimes wish that we had a child or some other reason to communicate. We don't really have any commonality to force us to interact so my W and I can see each other. I quite literally haven't heard her voice in almost 2 months. As you know from my thread there are a lot of text messages and a few emails, but I do miss her voice. Anyway, thank you for your advice on my situation and I will reciprocate in any way that I can.

[Soul.Searching]

I agree with the others here. I think you W will realize just what she has lost. You have some awesome advice and mostly, especially lately sound so clear headed.