The oldest and the babies fathers don't usually take much initiative in seeing their kids. Middle child's father is the only one who is after his kid...and how much it's about the kid vs hurting her I don't know.
“People are just as happy as they make up their minds to be.” Abraham Lincoln
So is it a good thing that she told me she cares about me, that she never said she doesn't need me in her life, that I shouldn't be worrying about her around exes, and that she just wants the old happy me back?
“People are just as happy as they make up their minds to be.” Abraham Lincoln
It depends. All relationships evolve. It's how you deal with conflict that's going to determine if you're going to have a good relationship or bad.
She can't be the one who changes her attitude, feelings, etc. and expect you to be exactly the same. Plus when she's not seeing YOUR need for security and wanting to go to C, then it means she really doesn't want to deal with it. Which in a sense makes her fairly selfish.
She just wants to sweep things under the rug which is the wrong thing to do. It's obvious she hasn't learned a thing from her prior marriages.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
MrBond, I appreciate what you're saying and I agree, if she changes then I change. So here's my thoughts after reading DR again today (still have some to go) and working on my plan which I'm putting on here soon so I have a place to reference it.
I recognize that what we have both been doing hasn't been working. There needs to be change. I decided I want to try and save the R. As DR says, I need to stop waiting for her to change and tip the first domino myself. So I can't keep expecting her to see MY needs and the way I want to do things, I have to start acting differently and consistently as you and AnotherStander have told me repeatedly.
Am I off on DB principles with those thoughts?
“People are just as happy as they make up their minds to be.” Abraham Lincoln
1. Spend quality time together. 2. Be intimate. 3. No fighting.
Action Goals Main: Have her say that we are in a relationship again.
1. Quality time.
a. Go on dates, just the two of us, at least twice a month. b. Go for rides/walks with and without the kids. c. Spend at least 15 mins per day talking about our day, fears, hopes, and dreams.
2. Intimacy.
a. Hug and kiss daily. b. Flirt and cuddle. c. Make love 2-3 times per week.
3. Getting along.
a. Let small things slide. b. No raised voices, rude comments, or sarcastic remarks. c. Openly share concerns and be understanding when the other expresses their feelings.
What Will I Be Doing? Main: Everything outlined below.
1. Quality time.
a. I will be relaxed and upbeat in her presence. b. I will look forward to whatever time we do have together and enjoy it, no matter what we are doing. c. I will be her friend and will be supportive of her. d. I will not complain about how little time we spend together. e. I will respect her desire to spend some time alone, with friends, or with family without me.
2. Intimacy.
a. Currently, I will respect her desire not to be touched by me at all. b. I will be her friend and only make contact as I might with a friend. c. I will give loving, non-sexual, touch. d. I will not complain about frequency of sex. e. I will not pursue or push her for sex. f. I will appreciate any love making as a gift given.
3. Getting along.
a. I will let small things slide. b. I will not yell or raise my voice. c. I will listen to, and adjust, the tone of my voice. d. I will not glare, stare, huff, or sigh. e. I will leave and calm down if necessary. f. I will listen to her rather than waiting for my turn to talk.
First Signs – Baby Steps Main: She will say that she wants to work on a relationship with me.
1. Quality time.
a. She will tell me about her day and ask me about my day. b. She will linger in a room with me. c. She will text/call me. d. She will be home earlier when I have a short night at work.
2. Intimacy.
a. She will not get angry at my touch. b. She will sit closer to me and sleep in bed with me again. c. She will touch me in a friendly manner. d. She will initiate touch with me by touching my arm when we pass each other.
3. Getting along.
a. She will stop prefacing statements with, “I don't want to fight” or “without fighting”. b. She will let small things slide without snapping at me. c. She will not be snide or sarcastic with me. d. She will be more relaxed in my presence and perhaps smile.
My "More of the Same" Behavior: 1. Arguing, reasoning, and pointing out "our potential". 2. Snooping. 3. Keep pushing to work on the relationship.
Changes: 1. I need to cheerlead. Appreciate everything she is doing for me, not complain about what she isn't doing. 2. I used to just enjoy being with her, no matter what we were doing, so I need to display that behavior again. 3. I was supportive of her visiting family and friends. 4. I was supportive of her educational/career goals. 5. I used to look forward to seeing her, it was my escape from work and stress. Now it feel aprehension when I'm going to see her b/c I never know what it's going to be like. I have to "fake it until I make it" and display the behavior of looking forward to seeing her. 6. She used to look forward to seeing me and wanted to spend lots of time with me. She wanted me around her family and friends. She talked to me about her stress, I was her de-stresser and I've become one of her primary stressors...I have to figure out how to turn that around. 7. No gifts, I love you's, special occasions, or anything other than being a very helpful father and kind friend. Do Something Different: 1. Stop talking about my feelings. Listen to her and validate her feelings if she willingly shares. 2. Be patient and listen to her. Acknowledge that it will take time to heal this relationship. 3. Do not argue about her feelings. 4. Don't express any clinginess, just be appreciative of the time we spend together. 5. Continue to GAL as much as possible. 6. Do not snoop, wonder, or question for any reason. 7. Always act pleased to see her, even if I am actually angry that she's been away from me. 8. Stop using text or written word to have "talks" b/c she's more responsive face-to-face. 9. I think I'm a "Fix it Addict" so I need to back off. Work on myself and stop working on the relationship so much and pushing her to work on the relationship.
1.Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore! This turns the spouse completely off!
2. No frequent phone calls to spouse.......let him/her be the one to call you. Then don't try to hang on to your spouse through conversation.....instead, you say good-bye first.
3. Do not point out good points in marriage or try to get him/her to read marriage books, look at your M pictures, etc. Especially, do not get him/her to read the DB/DR book. That is for you only!
4. Do not follow your spouse around the house like a puppy dog trying to get his/her time and attention.
5. Do not encourage talk about the future. They don't want to think about a future with you at the moment, so stay clear of that subject.
6. Do not ask for help from family members or friends. Don't discuss private matters with them that would upset your spouse.
7. Do not ask for reassurances (That is showing neediness and being clingy.) Show self-respect and self confidence.
8. Do not buy gifts to make "brownie points". (Can't buy his/her love and affection.)
9. Do not schedule dates together at this point. (That is pursuing.) Save for later when the R is much better.
10. Do not spy on spouse by checking emails, phone bills, etc. (Not good for you and will make matters worse.)
11. Do not say "I Love You" (It is being "pushy" and trying to make your spouse say it back to you......he/she will despise you for it.)
12. Act "as if" you are moving on with your life with or without them and that you are going to be okay. Keep a good attitude.
13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times! In other words, be the best you can be and look the best you can look at all times. Even when wearing jeans and T-shirt, wear good cologne, b/c it does cause the spouse to take notice.
14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse to see what kind of mood he/she is in or what he/she is going to do or say – get busy, think of things to do. Go to church, go out with friends, etc. in order to get a life for yourself without waiting on your wife/husband.....but it is okay to invite them, just don't act as if it will change your plans if they do or don't go.
15. When at home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation---then don't, wait for him/her) then, be rather scarce or with your words, but don't sound rude or too short like you are mad. If your spouse asks what's wrong....just say "nothing" and have a pleasant expression on your face. Keep it short and simple. Don't get into an argument! Stay polite and don’ t act like you are pouting. Use poise and class. This does not mean to act like you aren’t speaking, but don’t be overly talkative.
16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK THEM NOTHING!! No matter what time he/she comes home! You are giving them space and asking no questions! You enjoy your time with your kids, friends, etc. Remember, you are getting a life, also.
17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he/she will be missing. (But never ask him/her if he/she has noticed any changes!!) This is important! If you do, then you have blown it.
19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. This can confuse some of them b/c it is not what they expected. Show your spouse someone he/she would want to be around all the time, somebody that can be attractive and fun to be with. That somebody is you! Don't overkill in your attempts to outshine another person your spouse may be having an A with (if there is OP in the picture) to the point of looking like your attempts are "fake" b/c your spouse will see through all of that.
20. All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while) so this takes patient on your behalf.
21. Never lose your cool! Don't let your spouse trap you into a fight. Don't take her/his bait.....leave the room or the house for a while, if you have to, in order to avoid a fight.
22. Don't be overly enthusiastic, don't over-kill; in anything you do b/c it will come across as fake.
23. Do not argue about how your spouse feels about something (it only makes his/her feelings more negative.) Only they know how they feel!
24. Be patient......very, very patient. Give your spouse space and time. When you pull back, it will draw them towards you. It feels opposite of what you want to do, but it works!
25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Look them in the eyes when they talk to you. Do not interrupt them when they are speaking and stop what you may be working on to look at them when they talk. This shows them that you really care about what they are saying.
26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out (or scream and yell).
27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil). This is for your health's sake.
28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. Read self help books, inspirational books or listen to tapes. They are for you only.
29. Know that if you can do 180's, your smallest CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.
30. Do not be openly show that you are "desperate" or "needy" even when you are hurting more than ever and truly feel desperate and needy. This is a large turn-off for your spouse.
31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse, instead, focus on them.
32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because he/she is hurting and scared.
33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34. Do not ask your spouse if he/she has noticed your changes. Those changes are for you and for the rest of your life...with or without your spouse. If it is just to get your spouse back...they won't last and the same problems will return.
35. Do not send several TM's or emails throughout the day unless absolutely necessary.
36. It is best to stay away from the bar scenes where other problems easily arise.
37. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes
“People are just as happy as they make up their minds to be.” Abraham Lincoln
I want everybody who looks at this to know that I've messed up big time by not following DB principles. I've "experimented" with everything opposite of DB and what is outlined on this forum and in the books is accurate.
My ex-gf who is still living with me upset me. I left for work rather than get into an arguement. She asked what happened and I told her I was upset but I was over it so she drop it b/c she wouldn't like the truth. She said the truth is what you tell when you want to be with somebody and you claim communication is important. I let her bait me into an arguement where I told her the truth. She got defensive and aggressive as I did my best to stay calm. She threw a bag at me and pulled it away when I went to look in it b/c of trust issues/snooping. Then as I kept my mouth shut she kept talking and attacking me but softened a little when I wasn't defensive.
Worst is, now she's telling ppl false accusations about me when she was the aggressive one. She is telling ppl she doesn't love me. I'm having to focus on me and remember to believe nothing they say and only half of what they do. I've had to really decide what kind of person do I want to be for me even if I don't get her back.
Follow the DB rules no matter how hard they are. You can see from everything I've done has lead to negative outcomes and how DB principles are spot on. Don't make your own mistakes, make your own miracles.
“People are just as happy as they make up their minds to be.” Abraham Lincoln
Ex-gf had a talk with a mutual friend and basically she's running around telling ppl I've abused her but she doesn't want a legal battle so she's just working on moving out. If I act like a "d*ck" or things escalate she will get legal help. So pretty much I'm stuck having to play nice for now or she's going to lawyer up and I'll have to defend myself from all sorts of false accusations.
She told the mutual friend that it's completely over, that I broke up with her, she just wants out, we never had anything in common, that we were never meant to be, that when she was single with her 3 kids she was happiest, and being with me has been the worst time in her life.
She told the friend that she's had all sorts of interest from guys since she's changed her FB status to single but she's not engaging them b/c she just wants to focus on her and the kids. Once she moves out she has no intention of working on things with me.
She told the friend that she's going to a Halloween party tonight and drinking with her gf's but it's none of my business b/c she isn't my gf, she can do whatever she wants.
The mutual friend was trying to convince her to work on things with me once she moves out but she dug in her heels, saying she's made herself clear. I told the friend it would be best now to lay off b/c it isn't going to help matters at this point.
So, I've come to a few realizations. One, from a practical standpoint I have to play nice and cover my ass so that I don't have a legal battle on my hands. Two, I pushed her over the edge, I have to take responsibility for pushing her right out the door. Three, I know I need to detach, back off, and work on myself to get myself back to being the kind of person I want to be.
Lastly, I realize this is a true mess that I brought about. I do still love this woman and I hate myself right now for the way I've treated her and hurt her. One of the DB rules is "33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel".....I'm having a hard time with this...
“People are just as happy as they make up their minds to be.” Abraham Lincoln
