WAS vs. LBS

[keep_going]

Hi Crazyville,

Thanks so much for starting this thread and for still being here on the boards trying to help others. I read most of your posts and have really learned a lot from your personal situation and your candor. Thanks for sharing your journey with us.

You always bring up important things worth analyzing and so I want to contribute something in the spirit of sharing in a lively and productive discussion.

In most cases, the WAS was a LBS for years prior to walking away. The difference is only a matter of logistics.

I agree and I want to add that the situation can also work in reverse. I am a LBS who could have ended as a WAS. I was certainly unhappy in my H as well and felt unappreciated and unloved for years. I know I expressed it to my H too. I told him how trapped and helpless I felt with our situation and our lack of progress in solving our issues.

What was the difference? Right now I think the difference was our value system. I never considered D as an option, period. I believe a S can be healthy and needed in certain situations to help a couple find space, clarity and re-tool their thinking. Perhaps our M could have been one of those (given the right circumstances), yet I never saw our issues as unsolvable. On the other hand, my H sees D as an option, perhaps not ideal, but still there. His parents D (his dad was an abusive alcoholic), so in their sitch, it would be hard for anyone (including me) to argue against a D. H sees our M as one of those necessary cases as well.

The thing is, I never asked H what he thought about D and assumed he shared my vision of growing old together. Now I wonder if I would have even considered him as marriage material for ME, had I known that he saw D as an option.

As a WAS, it's not our intention to make the LBS miserable, just to make ourselves happy. If the LBS spent the last 5 years living a certain way -- by choice -- then it's reasonable for us to think that that's the way they want to live.

If we ask and our spouse obliges, then all is good. If we ask and they refuse, then there's nowhere to go with it.

I think it's a bit more complicated than just saying that the LBS did certain things by choice or refused to change. I could see it like that IF the LBS didn't love the WAS anymore. As we see on these boards, all LBS here are still standing because they love their S.

I think most people can tell when a R is not running on all cylinders. I knew my H was unhappy. I didn't just choose not to do anything about it, but I didn't have the tools to deal with our issues properly. I had terrible communication skills and not a lot of loving marriages or R to model after while growing up. Yet in all fairness I can see now that my H also lacked proper tools and communication skills. So I think it's not that one of us stopped trying or chose not to care for the other. We were both trying the way we each knew best, giving in the way we thought the other person needed and we both failed miserably at reaching each other and re-connecting.

I also let my own frustrations turn into anger and resentment because I never learned how to deal with my own emotions in a healthy way. But H didn't either. He grew up avoiding conflict and internalizing pain, which he also did in our M until he just could not keep it in and exploded.

When I brought this up with my H he mocked me and said I was insulting and disregarding the pain and suffering I had inflicted on him for years. He completely disregarded any of my limitations and negated my efforts during our M since they were grossly unsuccessful.

Of course I think it's unfair of him to dump it all on me and not accept any responsibility in the demise of our M. Yet in the end my opinion doesn't matter because perception is reality and he IS the WAS after all...

If the need is critical to our happiness (like intimacy) but you're more interested in hanging out with your buds or work or playing/watching sports, then we feel we have no choice but to look elsewhere.

During all our M I worked at least 60 hrs. a week, even after the birth of our two daughters. I was also trying to be a a good wife, a mom to two toddlers, spend time with relatives and friends, take care of my house and somehow find some time for me. H was just as overwhelmed as me - we took on too much.

H's view - I cared more about work than him...As backwards as it may sound, I THOUGHT this is what he wanted from me - to work to build a solid financial future. I told him for years how unhappy I was with my sacrifices. He said he would "support" me if I decided to give up my high-salary job. I started freelancing to have some periods of time off between gigs. Yet every time I was not working, he would constantly stress out about money and UNWITTINGLY make me feel guilty about it. In my heart I thought I was showing him my love by sacrificing myself, my time with him and our kids and stay in an unhappy work sitch so that HE would not be unhappy and stressed out.

All this is to say that things are not always what they seem to be. Again - our lack of effective communication made us assume erroneously about each others motivations and it cost us big time.

Even if changes are made, we suspect they're only temporary, because we've already watched as you lived your priorities. You're trying to convince us that you've changed, but the problem is that we've changed, too. You're not addressing the same person anymore, so it might not work to give us what we used to want. Years of what you're going through now -- tears, pleading, confusion, loneliness -- changes you.

This ^^^ to me is the saddest part of the WAS / LBS dynamic. Both go through tears, pleading, confusion and loneliness, not always at the same time. And yes, both parties change as a result. The difference I see is that the LBS for the most part, uses that pain and change to look back into the M and figure out why and how to rebuild if given the chance, where the WAS just cannot deal with the pain anymore and decides to focus their efforts elsewhere. Both become aware that the situation is untenable, both want the same - a way to stop the pain and find happiness. The difference is in how they come to believe they can find it.

What does it take to prevent M's from getting to this point?

Does nobody ask their current spouse, their life-long partner, "Are you happy with me?"

I don't think it's a matter of knowing if the spouse is happy or not, at least it wasn't in my situation.

I don't have the answers. I do know that most people don't realize the amount of HARD WORK that a M requires on a DAILY basis. Specially when the honeymoon period ends. I know I didn't and I just mistakenly thought that our love would be enough. It's not.

I also think we could all benefit from less ego and more humility in knowing that we will always have things we can improve about ourselves. Yes, constantly monitoring also helps as well as being willing to accept and somehow find a way to adapt together to life's changes.

A reality check is needed as well. I was reading in another post about expectations and how we need to view happiness as one emotion that comes and goes, just like anger, sadness, etc. When we start seeing things in more absolute terms and want a M where we can "always be happy" or find "true happiness" we get in trouble. That just doesn't exist in real life and that is where the hard work of M is needed.

And as you stated before, it's unfair to expect others to make us happy and I think many, many folks (including me) have fallen into this codependency trap.