I feel a bit like Edith Bunker myself. I stayed home for 15 of our 20 years and I'm not sure H even knows where the washer is lol. My H does follow "traditional" gender roles.
I know that "love(d) me/ love(d) me not" is a quagmire I should avoid. Was just blown away by the 5LL questions because I had to choose between two imaginary scenarios for each query.
Expressing my love to H. That's tricky.
He hasn't wanted to hear "I love you" for about 5 years or so. I had already mostly stopped saying ILY and since the bomb haven't at all.
He doesn't like hugs, kisses or hand holding. Since the bomb I stopped trying any pda.
He doesn't like gifts.
Service? I get up every morning with him and make the bed, make his breakfast, set the paper on the table for him. Through out the day I get him his lunch, snacks and dinner. When he had a job I packed his lunch and carried it out to the car for him (would start his car and scrape his windows in the winter) I do his laundry. Currently, I'm handling his unemployment related tasks because that sort of thing frustrates him. But I don't know if this means love to him.
He does like massages and foot rubs. (I sometimes get huffy about these because they are never, I mean never, reciprocated. Perhaps selfish of me, but there it is.) I don't know if that is "love" to him though.
He also usually, still, wants me where ever he is - until he doesn't anymore. That didn't make much sense. Ok, for example, when we're home together he wants me in the same room with him. However, not sure if my presence (quality time?) means love to him. And, however, when he decides he wants to leave he doesn't think to take me.
Not sure how to read this. Has he shut down the avenues for loving him? Does this go toward his depression or a feeling of being unworthy of love? Has he been trying to not allow me to love him? I'm going to have to give this some more thought.
Thanks for checking in with me.
Me 46 H 56 M 22 yrs S22, D20, Twin Ss18
You teach people how to treat you by what you allow. What you stop. And what you reinforce. ~~~~~~~ A lack of boundaries invites a lack of respect.
Do husbands actually do these things? Do they give "sweet notes" and hugs? Do they wash their wives' cars and do laundry? To me the questions were like some fairy tale scenario.
YES they do.
Of course their LL might not be AOS.
What is your husbands LL, I gather it is not AOS.
I did those things. But when your spouse is in MLC it does not help.
The book is a great resource for a normal marriage. And can help you learn about how your husband is speaking to you. Maybe without any talk!
I haven't read the book so might be operating under the wrong assumption. My thinking is that an individual might have different receiving and transmitting LL. Although, I would suspect that how one registers love would be much like how they express love...
As far as I can tell my husband doesn't express love for me. He provides for our family which is commendable and honorable but as for something especially for me - I just don't see that. Help me, ask me some questions so I might find how he does communicate.
Me 46 H 56 M 22 yrs S22, D20, Twin Ss18
You teach people how to treat you by what you allow. What you stop. And what you reinforce. ~~~~~~~ A lack of boundaries invites a lack of respect.
My thinking is that an individual might have different receiving and transmitting LL. Although, I would suspect that how one registers love would be much like how they express love...
I would advise getting the book from the library, you can read it in one day. I agree that a person might transmit and receive their LL in two different languages.
Originally Posted By: mrsrjd
As far as I can tell my husband doesn't express love for me. He provides for our family which is commendable and honorable but as for something especially for me - I just don't see that. Help me, ask me some questions so I might find how he does communicate.
During MLC it is quite common for their to be NO LOVE for the SPOUSE, that is part of the dis-ease That is why we need to detach and let them have their crisis. However it is also possible that he does do something that does show you love and you are just not noticing it. Maybe it is quality time. Or AOS via providing income for the family.
You may need to honestly look at what he was pre-crisis or when you first met, he may be 180 degrees opposite that right now. That is part of the crisis.
That is one reason that things are counterintuitive. All is not how it seems to be. Normal logic does not prevail.
Right now you do not want to communicate through speaking. You must rely on ACTIONS not WORDS.
Do not believe anything he says and half of what he does. Their are reasons for all of this.
As far as I can tell my husband doesn't express love for me. He provides for our family which is commendable and honorable but as for something especially for me - I just don't see that. Help me, ask me some questions so I might find how he does communicate.
During MLC it is quite common for their to be NO LOVE for the SPOUSE, that is part of the dis-ease That is why we need to detach and let them have their crisis. However it is also possible that he does do something that does show you love and you are just not noticing it. Maybe it is quality time. Or AOS via providing income for the family.
I'm open to the idea that I have not noticed something. Maybe just because that would make me feel better tho? H has always provided for the family and I have (I thought) always let him know how much I admire him for that. Quality time, I'm not so sure about. Like I said to Cat, he does seem to want me in proximity but there's always a distracter in the room too ie tv, computer.
Originally Posted By: LanceSijan
You may need to honestly look at what he was pre-crisis or when you first met, he may be 180 degrees opposite that right now. That is part of the crisis.
He has DEFINITELY done a 180 since the courtship & early days of marriage. My mother even commented at the time that she would never have believed someone could change so drastically. I mean, everyone knows the honeymoon ends, but H went from Drive to Reverse - never touched neutral. And its been that way for about 18 years. There have been rare flashes since then, but RARE and BRIEF flashes. And then you throw in 3 affairs too...
Can MLC last 18 years? I am sure depression can... so maybe he's stuck in a horrible cycle?
Originally Posted By: LanceSijan
That is one reason that things are counterintuitive. All is not how it seems to be. Normal logic does not prevail.
Right now you do not want to communicate through speaking. You must rely on ACTIONS not WORDS.
Do not believe anything he says and half of what he does. Their are reasons for all of this.
Keep learning and posting
I get the counterintuitive strategy. I learned long ago to squelch the verbal. In fact, I think I have spent most of our marriage detached. Now I'm working on GAL because the latest EA and Bomb drop has me mostly convinced our M is unsalvageable. It nearly has me convinced that even if it MIGHT be salvageable that I can't continue. Now, if I thought there could be a return to even a fraction of those early days... wow. But no. I let that dream go a long time ago.
I'm glad you quoted the "Believe none of what they say..." Because the only thing H has said to me is "I don't think I want a future with you" etc in the one convo. His actions have remained the same as the last 18 years - no avoidance, no spew, still same bed w/contact, still ML.
So Lance, what do I believe? That his actions bely his words?
Thank you for taking the time to talk to me.
Me 46 H 56 M 22 yrs S22, D20, Twin Ss18
You teach people how to treat you by what you allow. What you stop. And what you reinforce. ~~~~~~~ A lack of boundaries invites a lack of respect.
Hello, did not sleep well again last night. Think they do not know what a soft bed is anymore here. Hope all is going well, will try to get hold of you to wish S16 well in his game on Friday.
I have noticed "not sleeping well" to be a recurrent theme in his communications. The hopeful part of me reads that as code for missing me because he has said before that he never sleeps well without me. Is this wishful thinking?
I responded to him.
Are you sure its just the mattress that's the issue?
All is going ok.
Thanks for checking in.
How'd I do? Was the mattress question out of line? Thanks for your input.
--
Me 46 H 56 M 22 yrs S22, D20, Twin Ss18
You teach people how to treat you by what you allow. What you stop. And what you reinforce. ~~~~~~~ A lack of boundaries invites a lack of respect.
I'm glad you quoted the "Believe none of what they say..." Because the only thing H has said to me is "I don't think I want a future with you" etc in the one convo. His actions have remained the same as the last 18 years - no avoidance, no spew, still same bed w/contact, still ML.
So Lance, what do I believe? That his actions bely his words?
Yes I would believe half his actions, not any of his words. He does sound depressed, part and parcel of MLC, for the moment his actions do not sound like some one who wants a divorce but that could change as time goes along. If he is sleeping with you and someone else then that is cake eating. Kind of dangerous for you.
Originally Posted By: mrsrjd
Just had an email from H.
Hello, did not sleep well again last night. Think they do not know what a soft bed is anymore here. Hope all is going well, will try to get hold of you to wish S16 well in his game on Friday.
I have noticed "not sleeping well" to be a recurrent theme in his communications. The hopeful part of me reads that as code for missing me because he has said before that he never sleeps well without me. Is this wishful thinking?
I responded to him.
Are you sure its just the mattress that's the issue?
All is going ok.
Thanks for checking in.
How'd I do? Was the mattress question out of line? Thanks for your input. --
Not sleeping well is part and parcel to older age and midlife in general.
My guess is that most midlifers do not sleep well, have upset stomachs, ailments, all part of the depression and script of the movie that they are starring in.
You can throw him truth darts but do not EXPECT anything to come of them.
I see them as trying to FIX him. What do you think?
To the best of my knowledge he is not currently sleeping with anyone else. I've been there and done that and that is a deal breaker for me. Now, of course, the question becomes, how do I know he's not sleeping around?
I don't.
But we're together practically 24/7. I'm not above snooping (yeah yeah, I know that's bad) and he KNOWS I snoop but has given me his email and FB passwords which makes me think he's indirectly telling me he has nothing to hide.
What is a "truth dart"?
And btw, heard back re the mattress question and it turns out that his father came down while H was getting ready for bed to give him detailed health accounts of both himself and MIL. They are both in their mid 80's and both have significant health issues. To paraphrase, the dad came to tell H "We're dying. Thought you should know. Good Night."
Soooo his not sleeping well is probably not the mattress and probably not because he's missing me either.
"Fix" him? Not so much. Remember, we haven't had M communications for a long time, and have none now. So more a way of sounding the depths. Seeing what/how he responds.
Me 46 H 56 M 22 yrs S22, D20, Twin Ss18
You teach people how to treat you by what you allow. What you stop. And what you reinforce. ~~~~~~~ A lack of boundaries invites a lack of respect.
Hey M. I see you've met my friend, Cat. She's one of the best.
I see that you are really thinking about things. That's great.
You see, the thing about all this, if you choose to really take the journey, is that you will be forever changed. And sometimes marriages get saved.
If you feel that your h is in a MLC and only you can really decide, then the very best thing you can do is let him walk this path. Your job is to get out of the way.
That's why we tell those new to this to concentrate on you. And so, you are right where you should be - looking inward.
It is normal for LBS's (hate that term, btw), to begin to question what their marriage was really like and whether or not there was real love there at all.
As you continue on, you will see that what you thought all along and what you feel now about it will start to come together and you will see your marriage more clearly then you ever have.
As far as h's go, some do that stuff, some dont. Some are verbal, some show affection. Neither one is right or wrong or better or worse. It is just what is.
But you will know in your heart that there was real love there. You were not imagining it.
So, you are doing wonderfully. And you are right where you need to be.
I have enjoyed Cat's posts but she's kind of like my calico - disappears for days on end, until I think she's gone for good, then "poof" there she is. I guess she's well named.
I am definitely thinking about things. Big chance I will over-think as that is my tendency. I should be named turtle because that is about my speed lol.
Do I have a choice about taking this journey? Seems my boat has been shoved off the wharf but I realize its up to me as to where I land.
I am fairly well out of H's way. Realized in communications today that I actually have long been out of his way. A 180 for me would be to square off on his path and grab him by the shirt. But I don't think this is the time for that. It is the time for GAL, and I'm working on that. At the pace of a turtle.
Must have been love. Nobody makes my H do anything he doesn't want to, and he's stuck around for over 20 years. I am now more aware of the temperature of that love. Unlike the boiled frog, my water progressively got chillier.
Thanks for the encouragement. Hope you're right about my progress.
Me 46 H 56 M 22 yrs S22, D20, Twin Ss18
You teach people how to treat you by what you allow. What you stop. And what you reinforce. ~~~~~~~ A lack of boundaries invites a lack of respect.
