Ramblings and the sort from a 1st timer.

[25yearsmlc]

Tumbling,

Thank you and you are right. I guess I kind of feel like a child sometimes. Why is it so hard to make personal decisions. I make some pretty hard and important decisions everyday that effect the lives and safety of some pretty important people. When it comes to making decisions about me, it is hard. Makes no sense!

AML,

I'm very sorry you are here although you are in the right place for a lousy reason.

My problem is that you have said you DID Read Div Remedy/Div Busting books

But then you said it isn't working for you, BECAUSE you can't or won't follow it.

so there's not a lot to say on a Div Busting site- to someone who says he won't or can't try the Div Busting program.

I mean, do you see our dilemma? I want to advise you a lot,

but you'll likely say "25, thanks!" and then NOT to do any of what you said you would

OR

you'll do it for a week and then get depressed/frustrated again.

I believe You project confusion here so your w sees that and

does not believe in your changes.
AND

you don't make changes for long enough,

b/c you don't believe it should all be you doing the work

BUT THE THING IS, YOU ARE THE ONLY HERE TRYING TO SAVE YOUR MARRIAGE, YOUR WIFE IS NOT HERE SO SHE'S NOT GOING TO DO THAT WORK YET...

AND YOU DON'T WANT TO WORK ON YOU MUCH b/c you also resent HER NOT making changes...

but she wants OUT of the marriage...and or to see your changes last.

the "math" of it is this:

small consistent changes + sufficient time = change she can believe in.

Stop wanting tit for tat on every count.

Good grief, You're still bugged at a messy house and unmade dinners and she wants out of the marriage!

you need to know that 2 things now. 1) score cards hurt marriages, so lose yours. You both have them but you only control you so lose YOUR SCORECARD and stop measuring what she's doing or not doing. it's part of how you got here.

AND

2) SHE has her own scorecard, and you are NOT ahead on her scorecard.

So lose the scorecard. Just get rid of it.

Work on YOU and ONLY YOU and do NOT wonder about her changes or her choices.

Just make good changes in you, for yourself. Be a man only a fool would leave.



I am frustrated with this whole situation that I am in. The W just doing as she pleases without any care it seems. We are living as roommates and it drives me absolutely nuts. Like is said previously, I cook, clean, shop, etc. for the family, and she is able to reap the benefit. Who would want to work on something difficult when the "roomy" thing is so easy. She talks to me as we are friends most of the time and not the husband and father to her children. I KNOW, she has said that she doesnt want to be married. I get that. When I am detached doing my own thing, she can find me because I really dont feel that I can leave the house. She always seems to have something going on these days. Between school, volunteering and studying. She knows that she is just able to scoot out because the kids are taken care of. Its like she is perfectly fine with living as roommates and friends forever!



STOP MEASURING and guessing and asking questions with no answers...it's not helpful. First off, I think she is in more pain than you realize and feels powerless. YOU have time with your kids and most men here are grateful for that. Try seeing the glass is half full.

Second, you are spending too much energy on what your w is doing/feeling/thinking/planning

and how you are being a doormat and blah blah blah

AND NOT on you creating a new better life for YOU and your kids INSTEAD of all this wondering...

The bottom line is

your wife will only want back in the marriage if she believes

marriage to you can be better/different than before.

So, how are you SHOWING her that?

My gut says you sound (at least now) critical and negative. Your marital history sounded unhappy, and my guess is your w felt very taken for granted and criticized. You sound as if you were mostly angry a lot....Any validity to that?

Look, I know you worked hard and felt neglected too, BUT though you work hard, your work is a career that gives you rewards.

You get promotions and medals and pats on the back 8-10 hours a day for a job well done.

She's a SAHM who is constantly and relentlessly meeting other's needs...and she has a h who notices the mess in a house when he comes home

instead of asking his wife if she wants help in the kitchen OR with the kids...

but expects her to watch their kids all day AND clean the house AND get dinner ready AND THEN WHAT??? DO acts of service for him some more?

Can you see how that's NOT super fun sounding to do, let alone for....YEARS....

does not feel like a lot of "purpose and reward and respect"...which you have in your life, at least part of every day.

See my point? I'm not bashing you or giving you a 2x4 okay? At least I don't mean to.

But I think you need some perspective from a woman.

I'm also an Army veteran and a lawyer. So I get the stresses of being a soldier (and btw, my h is now deployed with his reserve unit so I get the Army Wife stress too, now).

And I've done the working mom deal, and the stay at home mom too.

I LOVE my kids a lot. But you know, usually staying at home was harder for me.
IF I wasn't working (and thereby paying for a housekeeper) I HAD to do it all, it all fell on me, working, taking care of the house, the children from the time I got home til they were in bed, the bills the shopping and usually the car stuff too. H was in medical training and his job always came first...so for me, my day never ended and no sense of individual purpose existed for me, which stinks...

plus housework is NOT a strength or interest of mine...so it was mostly easier to go to work. At least then, my h didn't have huge unfun expectations of me, and I didn't feel as if I'd let him down, which was something I wish we'd worked out earlier.


I have been doing a lot of 180s, but not really in line with the problems she had with out marriage.

Why aren't you trying to undo her negative images of you and the marriage, with positive 180s?
Counter her negative images and memories with positive

ACTIONS/BEHAVIORS

and "new you" data...make sense?




I am definately more upbeat when I get off work. Spend a lot more time with the kids, spend less time at work, etc. But in our marriage, she always fealt I wasnt affectionate enough, or complimenting enough, or perceptive enough (like new clothes and perfume). These are the things that I am NOT supposed to do according to DB and DR because its not something that she WANTS TO HEAR FROM ME NOW!!!

You can compliment her meals, any positive she does, and NOT make it sound like pursuit. BE UPBEAT and uncritical. Praise the surroundings of the home. No criticism and no judging.

When I am detached (usually in my house) she is able to find me. Which she does. She talks about whatever she wants and I listen intently. We never discuss marriage, R, or anything but sometimes she says things relevant to the future but I am confused on what she really means, or shes just that intent on living as roommates forever. Like the other day, I was talking about home projects that need to be done. She mentioned finishing the garage project (storage) because "we will always be needing a place to store things" or something to that effect. She provides opinions for paint colors for the basement, etc!!! Its just really frustrating!

when you have a normal healthy conversation that includes some thoughts about the future or the home, BE GLAD...what's frustrating you about THOSE?


I refuse to live as roommates, and want to work on the marriage.

what does "work on the marriage" mean, to YOU?

Are you in counselling? Are you digging deep to work on YOU?

Or are you EXPECTING things from her (without telling her of course)

and then getting mad when you don't get those expectations met?
No expectations now...and
Please see my timeline and get a real idea on what a reasonable time limit is...

She however seems to be fine in the current circumstance, but who wouldn't be! The only thing left for me to do is move back into the MBR. I live in the basement BR right now because I am trying to finish it. I mentioned about two weeks ago that I was going to move back into the MBR and she was PISSED! I explained (calmly) that it was "her that didnt want this marriage, or did not want to be with me, etc. Why should I have to suffer because of that".

Its almost to the point that i have one option. It is to file D paperwork. Either it will wake her up, or will end this for good.

You're being impatient, and your pride and ego are wounded. Don't let those factors make your choices. It's just silly to say you only have "one" option. At THIS point?

You think the choices are "be a doormat" OR 'get a divorce"??

How about you GAL, for real,

AND

go to Retrovaille,

AND see an IC for YOUR personal work on YOU

and seeing a pro marriage MC who is solution based (which YOU must learn to be as well. No more rehashing the past. Just Do what helps the marriage more

and none/less of what hurts it. Simple but different than what most couples do.



At this point, it seems like it is my only option and I think really, I am good with either outcome. I am almost at my After Last Resort Technique phase. Unless of course anyone is seeing things I dont.

Of course I see things you don't. I hope you can open your eyes some...

Are you willing to dig deep and do some real work, or not?

Would you prefer resenting and feeling stuck forever?

Why do you keep reducing this to a black and white "either or" proposition?

That's your choice...and you CAN make a new different one.

Check out Retrovaille, the marriage retreat for couples in crisis,

and or

see a solution based marriage counselor.

Get A Life. Join something. Take a class, try something on your "bucket list" and get out of the house at least twice a week, including at least one night per week.

Meet new people and stop accepting that you "dont' have any friends" b/c you are a dad. That is an excuse for you not to put yourself out there.

You can "soldier up" now and get your Div Busting program on. Don't come back telling us it's too hard.

Divorce is harder...trust me.