Here we go again...

[someguy1233]

I just left a voicemail for a lawyer. I need to ensure I'm doing all I can to not be financially destroyed and get at least 50% custody of S.

I'm also expecting a callback from a volunteer at Retrovaille. At some point I plan to bring up Retrovaille to W. Even if it's just so that we can communicate better after a D and raising our son....

[someguy1233]

I accepted W's email invite. We'll see how this conversation goes.

If she wants to come up with a separation plan, are these ok questions to ask? I don't want to appear supportive, but the info seems critical.
1. How would this work for caring for S?
2. How would this work financially?
3. What is the goal of separation?


---

W sent me a follow up message. A little back-story... her dad very recently divorced her step-mom.
W received an email from her dad stating he missed the relationship they had prior to the divorce. W and her dad aren't anywhere near as close since he divorced and remarried.
W sent an email to her mom telling her about the email. Her mom took it as an opportunity to "lecture" her about how it's similar to our situation.

She's now frustrated with her mom again. I wish she could see the similarities rather than getting angry when someone points them out...

[leopoldstotch]

SG take a deep breath and relax. No matter what your W says just take it with a grain of salt. Stay strong and validate what she says. Do not over react or show anger or sadness. Be strong. Check in after ur talk please. Good luck

[someguy1233]

W and I talked last night. She said that when she sent me the “meeting request” yesterday morning she had a whole plan of what she wanted to say. But when we sat down her brain was “scattered” and she wasn’t sure what to say.

It was a calm conversation. Almost like two old friends having a chat.

I’ve outlined her main points below and my thoughts in parenthesis.
*She doesn’t know what to do. She again said she’s not running to a lawyer to get a divorce.

*Her email exchange with her mom yesterday made her furious. She felt her mom was using our S as a way to make her feel guilty for thinking about breaking up the family. But she understood that her mom was trying to get her to “pump the brakes” and slow down before making a quick decision. She said she’s pumped the brakes. She’s trying not to make a rash decision.

*She asked how I’ve been and again commented on how I seem to be doing well. I told her that I’m taking this time for me and to work on myself. She said there’s nothing wrong with me and that I’m not the “crazy one” (referring to herself). I told her everyone has something they can work on if they look inside themselves. She said I’ve been all “yoda like” being understanding and asking her how she feels (validation/empathizing seems to be noticed!!)

*She plans to see a therapist for herself, but not the same therapist she saw last time. I told her that it’s not uncommon for people to try numerous different therapists until they find someone that works for them.

*She feels trapped In a cage. She isn’t sure she likes being married (not just to me, but married in general). She doesn't like having to think of another person’s feelings instead of just her own. She doesn't like having to check in with what someone else wants to do. She said we have very different wants in life and that I enjoy these aspects of marriage while she doesn’t. (I’m not sure how to take this information, or what to do with it… if she truly fundamentally doesn’t like being married there’s not a lot I can change)

*She said we can’t stay in our current situation indefinitely. She again brought up separation, this time with more of a plan. She said that she can’t stay in the house. She said that from past experience she knows that I won’t give up the house. Her options were.
1. She moves closer to the city and gets a 1 bedroom apartment and we find home daycare for S.
2. She moves closer to the city and gets a 1 bedroom apartment and her friend watches S at her apartment for reasonable price. (I am 100% opposed to this. Her friend is bi-polar, recently checked herself into a mental clinic because she was going to commit suicide, etc.)
3. She gets an apartment closer to home and S stays in the same daycare. She said she doesn’t really want to go this route because it won’t help her figure out if she really wants to live closer to the city)

(I have no idea how to handle separation. I don’t know what to do. I don’t know what to say. I’m so confused. I don’t know how she’ll care for S in a 1 bedroom apartment. I don’t want her to leave the house…I’m terrified it will push us further apart. She said another friend’s ex-husband forbade separation and her friend thinks they may not have gotten divorced if he hadn’t pushed her to make a decision. What do I do???)

*She has an interview setup with a potential new employer that would pay more.

* She said we need to learn to communicate even of it isn't for our relationship. She said we'll be in contact for years to come because of S, so we need to communicate better. I agreed and said that I saw this as one of our faults... We're horrible communicators and need to fix that either way. (I almost brought up Retrovaille. There’s one in our area in 2.5 weeks. This comment may be what it would take to get her there. What do you all think??)

[eyesopen]

I definitely think there is a opening there for Retrouvaille. I am not exactly sure how to phrase it. Just make sure it is a pressure free suggestion.

[AnotherStander]

*She doesn’t know what to do. She again said she’s not running to a lawyer to get a divorce.

Good! I think this is probably because you've taken all the pressure off of her, so nice job on the DB'ing!

*Her email exchange with her mom yesterday made her furious.

It's a great sign that she's not blaming you for this. An MLCer would find a way to make it your fault.

*She asked how I’ve been and again commented on how I seem to be doing well. I told her that I’m taking this time for me and to work on myself.

Perfect DB response!

She said there’s nothing wrong with me and that I’m not the “crazy one” (referring to herself). I told her everyone has something they can work on if they look inside themselves.

Another great response!

She said I’ve been all “yoda like” being understanding and asking her how she feels (validation/empathizing seems to be noticed!!)

LOL! Don't think I've ever heard it put that way, but that's fitting!

*She feels trapped In a cage.

That is straight out of "Love Must Be Tough". The challenge for you is to throw the cage door open and show her that she is NOT caged. So if she talks about S, you tell her you understand and you support her decision. I'm not saying you kick her out, just that you make it clear you will not interfere if she chooses to leave. Sometimes just seeing the cage door open is enough to keep a WAS from leaving.

I have no idea how to handle separation. I don’t know what to do. I don’t know what to say. I’m so confused.

It's just fear of the unknown. I had all the same fears. Once she leaves (if she does) and you establish your "new normal" you'll find out you can get by just fine.

I don’t want her to leave the house…I’m terrified it will push us further apart.

Remember, she needs space and time. S gives her that in abundance. With time it may very well bring you closer together. Can't promise that, but sometimes S is needed to pave the way to reconciliation.

She said another friend’s ex-husband forbade separation and her friend thinks they may not have gotten divorced if he hadn’t pushed her to make a decision.

There you go, pressure never works!

* She said we need to learn to communicate even of it isn't for our relationship. She said we'll be in contact for years to come because of S, so we need to communicate better. I agreed and said that I saw this as one of our faults... We're horrible communicators and need to fix that either way. (I almost brought up Retrovaille. There’s one in our area in 2.5 weeks. This comment may be what it would take to get her there. What do you all think??)

That's a good segue to Retro. But if you do it, do not go in with any expectations. It's probably not going to save your M, but it may give you tools to do that down the road.

[roughenough]

Are you learning about fears? What they mean? How you respond to them? Why you have them?

[unbidden]

I think you should ask her to go to Retro, tell her it's specifically for marital communications. We went two weeks ago and the change has been tremendous.

[leopoldstotch]

*She doesn’t know what to do. She again said she’s not running to a lawyer to get a divorce.

Ok SG this is good. This tells me that you have time. Use it wisely.

*She asked how I’ve been and again commented on how I seem to be doing well. I told her that I’m taking this time for me and to work on myself. She said there’s nothing wrong with me and that I’m not the “crazy one” (referring to herself). I told her everyone has something they can work on if they look inside themselves. She said I’ve been all “yoda like” being understanding and asking her how she feels (validation/empathizing seems to be noticed!!)

So the DBing is working. Remember don't stop what is working.

*She feels trapped In a cage. She isn’t sure she likes being married (not just to me, but married in general). She doesn't like having to think of another person’s feelings instead of just her own. She doesn't like having to check in with what someone else wants to do. She said we have very different wants in life and that I enjoy these aspects of marriage while she doesn’t. (I’m not sure how to take this information, or what to do with it… if she truly fundamentally doesn’t like being married there’s not a lot I can change)

This is something I hit on in an earlier post to you. Right now your W is overwhelmed with everything. We even discussed a possible OM but right now it's speculation. All you have to go by is her word that she is being truthful. I wouldn't get upset over what she said about not liking being married. She may not like it today SG or tomorrow or even a month from now but the fact she isn't seeking a D right now says a lot to me. It tells me she is thinking.

*She said we can’t stay in our current situation indefinitely. She again brought up separation, this time with more of a plan. She said that she can’t stay in the house. She said that from past experience she knows that I won’t give up the house. Her options were.
1. She moves closer to the city and gets a 1 bedroom apartment and we find home daycare for S.
2. She moves closer to the city and gets a 1 bedroom apartment and her friend watches S at her apartment for reasonable price. (I am 100% opposed to this. Her friend is bi-polar, recently checked herself into a mental clinic because she was going to commit suicide, etc.)
3. She gets an apartment closer to home and S stays in the same daycare. She said she doesn’t really want to go this route because it won’t help her figure out if she really wants to live closer to the city)

You cannot stop her from separating from you. As hard as it may be if that is what she wants then you have to let her go and you must do it with strength and dignity. I wouldn't move out of the house if I were you since she is the one who is questioning the marriage. You don't have to be cruel about it if she brings up you moving. My W tried that with me last year and I told her I wasn't going to leave the house that she would have to and I did it very calm and matter of fact. Pissed her off but I see it as cake walking.

(I have no idea how to handle separation. I don’t know what to do. I don’t know what to say. I’m so confused. I don’t know how she’ll care for S in a 1 bedroom apartment. I don’t want her to leave the house…I’m terrified it will push us further apart. She said another friend’s ex-husband forbade separation and her friend thinks they may not have gotten divorced if he hadn’t pushed her to make a decision. What do I do???)

Not gonna lie it [censored] but after some time you get used to the separation. In fact you may come to enjoy it. This is the time to work on you and do the things that you enjoy. If you do separate I've no doubt that you will survive. How was your life before you met and married your W? I'll bet you had a great time with friends so use this time to do those things again. She is not your life SG. Yes you love her but you do have a life without her it's inside you somewhere. Do not think that your identity and self worth is wrapped up in her because it's not!

*She has an interview setup with a potential new employer that would pay more.

I find that odd. Didn't you say she hates her job?

* She said we need to learn to communicate even of it isn't for our relationship. She said we'll be in contact for years to come because of S, so we need to communicate better. I agreed and said that I saw this as one of our faults... We're horrible communicators and need to fix that either way. (I almost brought up Retrovaille. There’s one in our area in 2.5 weeks. This comment may be what it would take to get her there. What do you all think??)

Your W is right. Let's just say you two D wouldn't it be better for all three of you (your S included)to get along? Why don't you be the one to lead her then? Be the communicator and if she is not clear with some thing instead of getting angry, tell her she needs to be clear you cannot read minds. Remember this, communication is also about the tone in which you speak to her. Retrovaille may a good option. I would talk to her about it but DO NOT pressure her to go. Talk to her about it once and if she says no drop it. You already know she does not want to be pressured she told you that.

SG my friend this will not be easy but with a lot of patience and GAL you can get through this one way or another. Lastly I think you should read bustorama's story as it is very similar to yours. It's a long read but is full of great advice. Please read it it's worth it. http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2079304

[someguy1233]

Not gonna lie it [censored] but after some time you get used to the separation. In fact you may come to enjoy it. This is the time to work on you and do the things that you enjoy. If you do separate I've no doubt that you will survive. How was your life before you met and married your W? I'll bet you had a great time with friends so use this time to do those things again. She is not your life SG. Yes you love her but you do have a life without her it's inside you somewhere. Do not think that your identity and self worth is wrapped up in her because it's not!

This comment plays right into my fears. My entire life prior to meeting my wife I battled with depression. I never dealt with it with a professional or through meds. It was dealt with internally through the course of dating W. I no longer self destruct when I'm down. But I also broke all ties to a group of friends that were very negative and seemed to self destruct together. I now have a very, very small social network.

This is one of my 180s. I'm working to become less socially awkward and less shy so I can expand this network. Oddly enough, through the issues in my relationship with W, I think I've become a stronger and better person. It just takes time, and sometimes the fear of the past "me" from years ago takes over. I won't be that person again.