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KG ((((( )))))

you express yourself so articulately, so beautifully...so heartfelt and so incredibly raw and honest.

i can't say much to you because you have spoken for me with regards to your fears about yourself

My greatest fear...that I cannot change. I know I have made some improvements, but my biggest challenges are still there - my anger and my short fuse.


and about OW

When he first left he was depressed, but now he is happier than the last few years we were together. He is back to being the jovial guy I met, yet not with me and not for me. He is attentive, loving, generous, caring, fun - both with our kids and with OW. He is the most amazing father and I know he is a great partner and lover with OW.

For this reason, I think only a miracle would make him ever reconsider coming back to me and this thought makes me sad and angry. When I see him doing so well, I find it hard to forgive myself.


another fear....

KG, I do think you don't give yourself enough credit and you give OW too much credit as well .Especially when you speak of her being able to replace you with your children! That cannot and is not going to happen. I cannot even begin to say what a wonderful woman and mother you are. Don't be unfair to yourself. Your kids are blessed to have you.

And don't emulate her to become. don't compare yourself. She still is after all the OW. and she may be all those great things you THINK she is, but she still is making a choice to be with a married man with three young children. she may be nice, but that is not who you want to be. To me that seems like she may be a little broken. You are healing. I am not trying to be judgmental...but do not compare yourself to the OW.

i think we are similar in that in our heart of hearts we both feel like of the OW were not in the picture, we would at least have a chance at R. And while the OW may not have been the problem that initially caused the split in our Ms, she is now the biggest obstacle to a chance at R. because as we know...while OP is in the picture, any change in sitch is very hard.

KG i am with you. This is hard. Yet i am so d@mn grateful to have gotten to know you because of it. And i am confident...that we will get through this together. We will. I know it. I won't let you go.

Love you KG. xxx


TPS
Me: 44 H: 42
M14 T17
S10 D7
10/10 H moves out after death of his father-same month
21/04/12 H is 'DONE'
04/05/12 OW/PA confirmed (rumors from 2010)
July '14 H ends affair
May '15 H moves back home
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 847
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Posts: 847
Busting - Thanks for your words of encouragement - you know where I am coming from. Thank you for being here and for being such a good friend!

I know you are right in that many of these fears are unfounded - unrealistic. I try to remind myself of that when they arise. It's part of having that PMA, which is a big struggle for me. I have realized that I can be my worst enemy. I am way too hard on myself and I can really talk myself down. It's something that I constantly have to work on.

Writing my fear list in my last post definitely had an effect on me as well...


So in order to counteract those sad and negative feelings, I thought it would help me to go back to my list of goal and check on my progress. Here it is:

1) Increase my PMA
HOW?
- Smile constantly with everyone, all the time
- Use stop-sign technique to stop negative thinking
- Read inspirational quotes daily
I WILL FEEL better about myself, more upbeat, more positive and find more good things about my life, my efforts to become a better person and my progress.

I have been doing great with smiling at people and it definitely makes me feel good! I also like the reactions I get. It has done wonders for me. I have also read my quotes, but I don't try to implement them after reading them. Need to work on that more. I have not been so good at stopping negative thoughts. I have let myself wallow in sadness a couple of times, although I was sick a couple of times this past month. Need to improve on this.


2) Focus on improving one lacking area in my communication skills - my tone of voice
HOW?
- Use a lower, softer and calm tone when asking kids to do something
- Use a slower, softer tone when speaking to others
- Pause before responding
- Not interrupting
I WILL FEEL calmer, less anxious and even when something affects me, I will feel in control of my responses.
I will also notice a different response or reaction from others towards me and my R with others will improve. They will notice a calmer, softer side of me.

Doing good on not interrupting. Not so good on having a slower, softer tone of voice. I find it hard because of my personality. I am not an even-keeled person - I wear my heart on my sleeve and am intense about everything. You can pretty much tell what my state of mind is right away. I am trying to "normalize" my demeanor. I think this will be particularly helpful with the kids - specially when dealing with discipline. I think I can be more effective if I use a softer, lower tone when I want to convey something important to them. More work to do here...

3) Be consistent about exercising
HOW?
- Start with 3x week - on days I don't have kids doing any of the following: jogging, swimming, tennis, road bicycling or yoga at home
- Other days, at least go for a 30 min. walk with S1 during school hrs. (3x week)
I WILL FEEL less stressed out, sleep more profoundly, have a more PMA and will be able to react and act with more patience. I will look better.

Failed miserably on this one.

4) Work towards getting 7 hrs. of sleep every night
HOW?
- Start by getting 5hrs every night, by going to bed by 1am every night for the next two weeks
I WILL FEEL rested, be in a better mood, think with more clarity and have more energy throughout the day and will be able to find more patience within myself.

Done. I will now work on keeping it up for another month or so until it becomes habit before trying to add another hour to it.

5) Improve my eating habits
HOW?
- Do not skip meals
- No caffeine after 5pm
I WILL FEEL like I have more energy, will lose the few lbs I have gained lately, and will be less jittery and will not lose sleep at night. I will feel better about myself and look better.

Not skipping meals anymore. I still drink some coke here and there after 5, but it's not too bad. Now I need to concentrate on eating more greens and salads.

6) I will continue working on my spiritual growth and emotional well-being.
HOW?
- Read 1 hr. every night
- Journal every day - even if just for 10 mins.
- Continue going to church on Sundays
- Do gratitude lists when I wake up and before sleeping
- Go to meetings once a week
I WILL FEEL more content with myself, will find more patience and empathy and compassion for my efforts and my progress. I will also feel more love towards myself, as I am taking care of myself. My self-esteem will improve and I will be a happier, healthier person.

I am reading every night, doing my gratitude list, going to church weekly. I have not gone to meetings once a week or written a journal daily. I am currently working hard on finding more compassion and patience for my efforts and progress and my self-esteem. This is a struggle fo rme right now.

7) Be more consistent with my personal GAL or social activities outside of my daily routine.
HOW?
- Call and see girlfriends at least 1 day a week - listen more
- Socialize with parents once a week & foster their R with kids
- Update FB and check in with friends
- Get out of the house when I don't have kids - even if going for coffee, walk, go to the beach, bookstore, etc.
I WILL FEEL more positive, will have more fun, will feel more loved and cared for by my friends and family. My R with them will become stronger little by little.

Done.

8) Continue improving my R with my kids and being a better mom for them.
HOW?
- Be more present, share and play with them - focus only on them
- Work on correcting them less, and focusing less on manners and more in having fun
- Continue laughing, singing and dancing with kids daily
- Continue showing physical and verbal affection thru out the day; cuddling with each every evening and during bedtime.
I WILL FEEL like I am a better mom for my struggling kids. I will feel more connected to them and more satisfied with my efforts. They will be happier, more confident and feel safer.

Done. Yet, I really need to focus on my patience with them when they act out. Not raise my voice and show more loving empathy for their real struggles behind the tantrums. I sometimes forget that it's more than just about the power struggle with them...

9) Implement consistent baby-steps to establish a new R with H.
HOW?
During our in-person interactions, focus and act only on:
- Smile
- Listen
- Validate
- Praise
In written interactions:
- Continue to not initiate, unless necessary kids' loginstics, respond in a friendly way and not right away when not needed
I WILL FEEL more at peace, will continue improving my detachment, will begin to create space for goodwill and good feelings to emerge between the two of us. He will act less defensive around me.

I listen carefully. There are not many opportunities to validate because most of our interactions are logistical. He really doesn't open up to me or talk about personal things anymore. I used to do praise H a lot last year. The more detached I have become, the less incentive I feel to do so and I am not sure why. Something to think about and definitely work on. I think I smile when he is around, but not necessarily when we talk. Will work on that as well.


I think I need to continue working on these same goals to affirm those that have been accomplished and make them a habit and to be successful on those where I have failed.

Lot's of work to do...


Me & H: 44
D7, D6, S3
Together: 20y, M: 17y
EA: 11/13/10, Sep: 12/23/10
EA becomes PA: Spring 2011
H filed for D: 09/06/12
D Negotiating began 2/15
OW seemingly gone on 3/15
Still negotiating D






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Your goals and progress are really inspiring to me!

The softer lower tone when something is important, is something my IC suggested to me too, as my kids and I were in a cycle of tell, ignore, yell, ignore, yell louder and so on until I felt out of my mind. If you stop, make eye contact, and speak softly it really can work better.

Some of your goals were intended to help you feel better about yourself...do you find they are doing that? If you start to feel down can you choose one or another of them and do a little MORE of it?

Thanks for sharing your struggles and achievements with us!


Adinva 51, S20, S18
M24 total
6/15/11-12/1/12 From IDLY to H moving out
9/15/15-3/7/17 From negotiating SA to final D at age 50
5/8/17-now: New relationship with an old friend
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Hi KG,

It was so open and brave of you to admit to and post your fears. I so admire your honesty and must admit to you that I have many similar fears.. really doubting myself and thinking that OW and W's life is perfect... that W leaving confirmed the bitter truth about who i am and would always be... and that everyone else would see it and want to be with them.. that I would always be alone and miss W, not be able to move on...

Those are some scary fears you expressed.. ((((((((((((( ))))))))))))))

I feel as if there is a sense in which you are so open.. to growth and want it so so much... which is beautiful and wonderful..

but that you are not seeing that what you seek is already inside you, KG... you already possess it.. it is just fear and hurt that keep you from feeling like you can access it... or recognizing it..

you have displayed such courage to parent such small children on your own.. to protect them....

and despite all the pain, you have tried to look at H with compassion and to be honest about the times you are not who you wish to be with him..

i hope you can see your courage and your intense love for your children which has kept you moving forward at times you did not want to or feel like you could...

you have been so caring and compassionate with all of us here even when your own heart was full..

you have spent almost half your life with your H.. you are experiencing an intense deep grief made much more difficult and complicated by how it was not your choice and how it continues to unfold.. please have compassion for where you are..

i know i drive everyone crazy with all the pema stuff... but i am listening to her series on smiling at fear.. and she talks about the first step being an unconditional friendliness with ourselves.. the ability to look at ourselves with compassion...

that helps us uncover our true nature. and realize the layers of fear and hurt which stop us from being our true self...

and KG, it is not EASY... i STRUGGLE mightily with it each and every day with you.. and am so awed by your honesty in saying it here.. that is courage..

and to be honest with and face those fears and then turn your focus to the things that are good for you and within you.. that is pure strength..

((((((((((((( )))))))))))))))))))))))


“WE ALREADY HAVE everything we need. There is no need for self-improvement. All these trips that we lay on ourselves—the heavy-duty fearing that we’re bad and hoping that we’re good, the identities that we so dearly cling to, the rage, the jealousy and the addictions of all kinds—never touch our basic wealth. They are like clouds that temporarily block the sun. But all the time our warmth and brilliance are right here. This is who we really are. We are one blink of an eye away from being fully awake.”
― Pema Chödrön, Start Where You Are: A Guide to Compassionate Living


Me(f): 51 W: 41
DP:8 M:3 T:10
"W not happy" 7/11
D final: 8/13
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How about instead of failed miserably you restate the goal in a way that makes it achievable? Sometimes if our goals are too bid we don't even start because it's seems like to big a mountain to climb.

How about starting out walking for 10 minutes 1x/wk?

I know when I start trying to be too ambitious with my biking, I don't enjoy it as much and so tend not to ride as much. So I step back and reassess.


Me 57/H 58
M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13

Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do.
I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering.
Caroline Myss
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KG you are being too hard on yourself. Good to acknowledge all that stuff but u are hardly a monster. Right? There must have been good qualities for H to M you in the first place. I can't believe for a second that you are all bad and nothing good. Yes the anger is a problem. You know why i think we use anger. Is less painful than the other feelings, in our heads we think it is stronger to be angry than scared, sad etc... Maybe u need to feel that other stuff and be ok with it. Start looking at your strengths some time. Bet there are lots of them.


M 53
D 20
Separated 6/22/11 moved out 10/24
Together 26 yrs
Married 16
W Filed for D 7/21/11
Served 9/6/11
D final 8/28/12

“Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be.”

John Wooden





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Thanks guys for checking in.

Ad - Yes! I think the lower and softer tone works wonders with the kids. The problem is me. I just need to get more consistent with it specially when things are crazy and hectic and I have three kids trying to test me at once - LOL...

My goals (except for the one related to my H) were all intented to make me feel better and improve my self-esteem. They help and yes, you are right. When something is working, I should do more of that to lift my spirits. Thanks!

NG - Your post made me cry. Really. Thank you so much. You always have such empathy and compassion for others here. You really know how to reach and touch others in a very special way. Your support means a lot to me.

Bug - Thanks for suggesting the shift in mindset. It's so simple too, yet it didn't occur to me. You have made me realize that even in something as small as how I express myself about myself, I sabotage my efforts and can put myself down. I will focus on that as well. I also like the idea of tackling my goal in smaller increments. 10-minute walks are definitely doable (or should be - LOL...)

Rick - Thanks for the encouragement. My self esteem really took a hit since the bomb and I am trying hard to work on it. Forgiveness for myself is a big part of it. I have never been good at it. Also growing up, I didn't receive a lot of praise or encouragement. I was expected to do right and achieve and the only times I got praise was when I showed strength or discipline. Hmmm - I wonder why I struggle with showing vulnerability....

Anyways, these are all things I am becoming more and more aware of as I continue my journey and keep adding to my list of improvements.

Thanks again, guys. I am feeling so much better now. The slump is over. It has been a while since I got so down - it was a bit scary. But I am good now and continuing forward!

(((hugs to all my friends here. THANK YOU FOR HELPING ME THRU THIS!!!)))


Me & H: 44
D7, D6, S3
Together: 20y, M: 17y
EA: 11/13/10, Sep: 12/23/10
EA becomes PA: Spring 2011
H filed for D: 09/06/12
D Negotiating began 2/15
OW seemingly gone on 3/15
Still negotiating D






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Always here for you KG. You are a wonderful woman. love you! ((((( ))))


TPS
Me: 44 H: 42
M14 T17
S10 D7
10/10 H moves out after death of his father-same month
21/04/12 H is 'DONE'
04/05/12 OW/PA confirmed (rumors from 2010)
July '14 H ends affair
May '15 H moves back home
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 9,676
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Posts: 9,676
Rick is a wise man.

We should all consider his advice.


Me 57/H 58
M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13

Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do.
I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering.
Caroline Myss
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 847
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Tonight I just want to journal here to get things off my chest and process my disappointment and hurt...

I was recommending NLW to work on a custody agreement with her H. My own H and I worked for a couple of months drafting one with a therapist who was supposed to help us communicate and co-parent better.

The point of contention with my H during that process was my request that he didn't expose our children to OW until our D was final. I know now that I was partly motivated by anger and by a desire to control the situation. I was also concerned about how we would be able to explain the situation to our D3 and D4 and how it would affect them. They are so young and still not able to express so many of their feelings.

H never told me he had introduced OW to them in the first place. I found out through D4 last year. I had an argument with H about his lack of transparency and insensitivity. I gained nothing, of course, because I approached him with anger. Not smart of me, I see that now.

Then on a couple of occasions this Spring OW, OW's sister, OW's mother and OW's two daughters have had a "play date" with H and my kids. When I found out I again expressed my displeasure to H. I know now I should have dropped the issue completely. I can't control it and he had no incentive to change. H assured me then that our girls only know OW as his friend, they are never affectionate in front of them and that she never spends the night when they are with him. I believed him. My bad.

Yet a few days after their "play date" D4 told me that OW's daughters didn't have a dad and that my H was their dad. My D3 added that "daddy and OW love each other." On a different occasion D4 said that OW was part of our family.

So during therapy and while drafting our agreement I asked H to please stop exposing them to OW completely until our D was finalized. H said he wanted introduce OW as his girlfriend. That she is an amazing woman and he has a right to share all of his life with his kids and she will be good to them. So I asked him - if you are going to say she is your girlfriend, what are you going to tell them I am then? No answer. Eventually we reached a verbal agreement with the therapist that he would not expose them until this Thanksgiving.

Then this past Memorial Day D4 told me that OW had spent all weekend with them. I was livid. We argued and he just said they didn't plan it and it was inevitable since she was in town. That he should have told me but was afraid of my reaction. I couldn't argue then, giving my past history of getting upset. and once again, by approaching him in anger I gained nothing.

I thought he would then stick to our agreement, but today during bath time D4 told me that they talk on the phone with OW frequently, that OW's mother was visiting last weekend and they were going to see her at the park but she couldn't make it. H also told them that they will see OW all the time this winter and that they will spend Xmas Eve with her. I was devastated and tried to pretend to be ok, but I know my disappointment and sadness came through this evening.

I was angry, hurt and felt once again betrayed by H. I was also mad at myself for having expectations, for being naive again. I thought that after almost two years we were past the deceit and lies by omission. I wanted to call and say how dare you, call him a liar, tell him how all the goodwill we have been building recently is gone.

Yet I didn't. After a while the initial intense anger subsided and I am left with sadness and hurt. I am processing it tonight and know it will take some time for it to pass. But I am not going to call him or say anything to him about it. I did in the past, more than once. Nothing was gained then. He doesn't care and nothing will be gained now. I know better now. I will just go through this new disappointment, grieve and continue on.

At least there I see progress in myself.

So it's now time to go very, very dim on H again... We have been getting along pretty well in the last couple of months and even spending some time together with the kids. He said recently he didn't want to lose my friendship, he had been initiating some contact, sending me jokes or photos of the kids. I have had no expectations with this relating to our M. I know his friendliness has nothing to do with him having doubts about us, but felt it productive that we had stopped the fighting and are getting along for the sake of our kids. I thought we were beginning to heal our wounds and laying the foundation for trusting each other as co-parents, which I believe we need to do anyways.

I was wrong. Zero expectations means that - zero. Even at the most basic level...

That was my lesson today.


Me & H: 44
D7, D6, S3
Together: 20y, M: 17y
EA: 11/13/10, Sep: 12/23/10
EA becomes PA: Spring 2011
H filed for D: 09/06/12
D Negotiating began 2/15
OW seemingly gone on 3/15
Still negotiating D






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